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NY Bans sale of Gas powered Cars starting in 2035

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
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This is interesting and will be interesting to see how they up their electrical grid ahead of this ban.

Currently the electrical grid in the US will not support wide-scale recharging of electric cars. The electrical loads needed will become exponentially higher than they are now, but we are basically not building new generating stations. Wind energy is fairly unreliable, as they found out in Texas earlier this year. Solar energy does not produce power at night, when electric cars will be recharging. Not only do we not have enough generating capacity, we don't have enough capacity to transmit the energy (wires) in large enough loads to charge vast fleets of electric vehicles.

2035 is less than 14 years away and I don't see the accompanying infrastructure plan to go with the ban on gasoline powered cars. I'm in no way opposed to electric cars, they are getting better and we should see swappable battery packs and thousands more recharging stations built over the next 14 years. But I'm just curious what happens when we run out of electricity? Quite literally we don't have the capacity.


New York Bans Sale of Gasoline-Powered Cars Starting in 2035 (1)

The sale of new gas-powered cars and trucks will be banned in New York State in 14 years, under legislation signed by Gov. Kathy Hochul on Wednesday.
The measure (S.2758/A.4302) sets into law a state goal to have all New York sales or leasing of new passenger cars and trucks—as well as off-road vehicles and equipment—be zero-emissions by 2035. All new medium- and heavy-duty vehicles sold will have until 2045 to meet the goal, according to the bill.
“New York is implementing the nation’s most aggressive plan to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions affecting our climate and to reach our ambitious goals, we must reduce emissions from the transportation sector, currently the largest source of the state’s climate pollution,” Hochul said in a news release.
New York joins California, which last year became the first state to set an expiration date of 2035 for the traditional automobile. Massachusetts is aiming for a similar goal.
Several vehicle manufacturers, including General Motors Co. and Volkswagen AG, have said they will begin manufacturing zero-emission vehicles exclusively.
State agencies, in consultation with the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority, are required to create a zero-emissions vehicle market development strategy by Jan. 31, 2023. The state will be required to identify near-term actions and investment strategies to improve sustainable transportation and freight and transit options.
The measure is expected to help New York State as it looks to lower carbon emissions and combat climate change. Under legislation passed in 2019, the state plans to get all its electricity from emission-free sources by 2040 and achieve an 85% reduction from 1990 levels in economy-wide emissions by 2050.

Trucks Targeted

Hochul on Wednesday also directed the state Department of Environmental Conservation to release a proposed regulation that would reduce air pollution from trucks.
The regulation, modeled after California’s clean truck rules, would require truck manufacturers to transition to clean, electric zero-emission vehicles. A certain percentage of sales would have to be zero-emissions, dependent on the vehicle weight class, starting with the 2025 model year.
The proposed regulation allows several compliance options and would require a one-time reporting from applicable truck fleets.
“The best way to ramp up our fight against the climate crisis is to transition to new vehicles that are entirely free of carbon and other toxic emissions,” bill sponsor state Sen. Pete Harckham (D) said in a news release on Wednesday. “The devastation from Tropical Storm Ida proves, once again, that half-measures in dealing with climate change are of little benefit to us. We need to take decisive action right now.”
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Be prepared to pay through the nose for electricity when someone in guberment clues in that all these electric vehicles don't contribute one cent to road maintenance. (Ie road tax on gasoline)
In addition to our federal gas tax, there is a proposal for a federal mileage tax. So gas/diesel vehicles would pay TWICE, once at the pump and once by the mile. Electric vehicles would pay one time, by the mile.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I don't drive much. I might put 2000 miles on my truck a year. I did buy a new diesel truck this year with the expectation that it may be the last truck I ever buy. If I can keep it for 20 years then that should cover the remainder of my truck needing life. At least that's the plan - who knows how it will play out.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I don't drive much. I might put 2000 miles on my truck a year. I did buy a new diesel truck this year with the expectation that it may be the last truck I ever buy. If I can keep it for 20 years then that should cover the remainder of my truck needing life. At least that's the plan - who knows how it will play out.
If you can put an above ground fuel tank on your property you might be able to pass that truck on to the next generation with fuel too!

I'm still kicking myself for getting rid of my 500 gallon diesel tank.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
It's tempting to get a big tank. The gas can collection is getting out of hand. If I feel diesel will start getting scarce then I probably will. I could probably get buy on 500 gallons of diesel a year.
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have 110 gallons of dieseling 55 gallons of gas stored in drums, its about time to rotate it out, as its about a year old now.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
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Right now, 25% of electric power in New York is from so called renewable "green' energy. 29% is nuclear which gives the state pollution credits.
However, New York has no plans to allow expansion of the nuclear facilities.

The deadline is 12 years away and it takes about that long to get approval for new plants. Much less just building them.

So, where do they plan to get the 45% increase in production to meet demand for electric vehicles?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Right now, 25% of electric power in New York is from so called renewable "green' energy. 29% is nuclear which gives the state pollution credits.
However, New York has no plans to allow expansion of the nuclear facilities.

The deadline is 12 years away and it takes about that long to get approval for new plants. Much less just building them.

So, where do they plan to get the 45% increase in production to meet demand for electric vehicles?
THIS IS EXACTLY MY CONCERN
 

J5 Bombardier

Active member
SMR (small modular reactor ) "nuclear" seems to be the plan down the road up here. You can forget about the solar / wind it's just window dressing in a northern climate , if they want their electric cars, every city/ town in butt ''''; nowhere is going to have one. The ' Not in my backyard won't cut it, as it gets pretty chilly here in the winter. In the mean time there is lots of oil/ N gas to keep us warm and to make plastic for our vehicles / computers , if the political will is there to keep pumping it.
J5 Bombardier
 

J5 Bombardier

Active member
Since DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) arrived on the scene , the maintenance on diesel motors and reliability , cracked particulate filters, egr problems , injectors , VGT turbo's , its insane, the money it takes to keep a fleet going, transit buses from my point of view.
For the average guy , with the purchase of a new diesel truck, I would keep an eye on the warranty as it winds down on the vehicle and make a decision to keep it or trade, as the garage rates keeps going up. It's not uncommon for a " Cab Removal " to work on these things, big bucks !
J5 Bombardier
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Since DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) arrived on the scene , the maintenance on diesel motors and reliability , cracked particulate filters, egr problems , injectors , VGT turbo's , its insane, the money it takes to keep a fleet going, transit buses from my point of view.
For the average guy , with the purchase of a new diesel truck, I would keep an eye on the warranty as it winds down on the vehicle and make a decision to keep it or trade, as the garage rates keeps going up. It's not uncommon for a " Cab Removal " to work on these things, big bucks !
J5 Bombardier
And China doesn't do any of this. Our global competitor decided they are a "developing country"...
Even though they have a Mars rover currently on the Mars surface.
We are being duped by the Chinese... And Global warming, Climate change is an ongoing lie.
Save you older Diesel engines, and refurbish them. Keep them in service as long as possible.
Older Semi Tractors are demanding quite the premium prices in my area. Some times 2X what newer trucks are bringing.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Right now, 25% of electric power in New York is from so called renewable "green' energy. 29% is nuclear which gives the state pollution credits.
However, New York has no plans to allow expansion of the nuclear facilities.

The deadline is 12 years away and it takes about that long to get approval for new plants. Much less just building them.

So, where do they plan to get the 45% increase in production to meet demand for electric vehicles?
Yes indeed...
Nuclear may be the way to go. Technology has moved the bar quite a lot since the last reactors were built in our nation.
I believe these newer designs are the future. Safety is now paramount in any newly built facilities, and maybe time to consider new Nuclear power plants.
Electric cars are not going away any time soon. Cost per mile driven will soon make sense to many people. One Tesla car battery is equivalent to 2 gallons of gasoline. How far can you drive on 2 gallons? The car can go 300 plus miles. Internal combustion engines waste so much of the heat produced and gives it to the atmosphere instead of moving the car. Improvements in battery technology are drive the change.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Yes indeed...
Nuclear may be the way to go. Technology has moved the bar quite a lot since the last reactors were built in our nation.
I believe these newer designs are the future. Safety is now paramount in any newly built facilities, and maybe time to consider new Nuclear power plants.
Electric cars are not going away any time soon. Cost per mile driven will soon make sense to many people. One Tesla car battery is equivalent to 2 gallons of gasoline. How far can you drive on 2 gallons? The car can go 300 plus miles. Internal combustion engines waste so much of the heat produced and gives it to the atmosphere instead of moving the car. Improvements in battery technology are drive the change.
It's true that battery technology is the path to the electric vehicle success. However, so far, such improvements have shown to be devastating to the environment. So what is the gain?
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
It's true that battery technology is the path to the electric vehicle success. However, so far, such improvements have shown to be devastating to the environment. So what is the gain?
I don't know much about many other makers than Tesla. There they seem to be committed to doing the jobs as cleanly as possible. Cobalt is problematic due to it being mined by hand in the Congo, and slowly killing those who mine it. So the move has been away from that to Iron and Nickle for the cathode. Tesla also has a closely tied firm called Redwood lithium recycling that is scaling up for recovery of the base metals. Lithium is 85% recoverable and Nickle and iron are more like 95% recoverable. This suggest at some point mining these will eventually slow down as these recoverable materials fill the system of recycling/ production.

Still messy in the beginning. Exciting is they will refine South Carolina lithium bearing ore to Austin Tx and will refine it there. This will be the first time we use our ore and our processing for our American made Tesla cells. Currently the ore is mainly Australian and processed in China or Japan. Then the products come here for assembling into batteries.
The architecture of the cell is just as important as the mix of ingredients. Tesla has a unique and innovative way of making their "jelly roll" such that it can charge the entire roll from each end, not just one side of it and have to propagate the charge across the battery. Much faster charging times, and much higher discharge rates from the new design. Tesla is clearly the leader in this area.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I don't know much about many other makers than Tesla. There they seem to be committed to doing the jobs as cleanly as possible. Cobalt is problematic due to it being mined by hand in the Congo, and slowly killing those who mine it. So the move has been away from that to Iron and Nickle for the cathode. Tesla also has a closely tied firm called Redwood lithium recycling that is scaling up for recovery of the base metals. Lithium is 85% recoverable and Nickle and iron are more like 95% recoverable. This suggest at some point mining these will eventually slow down as these recoverable materials fill the system of recycling/ production.

Still messy in the beginning. Exciting is they will refine South Carolina lithium bearing ore to Austin Tx and will refine it there. This will be the first time we use our ore and our processing for our American made Tesla cells. Currently the ore is mainly Australian and processed in China or Japan. Then the products come here for assembling into batteries.
The architecture of the cell is just as important as the mix of ingredients. Tesla has a unique and innovative way of making their "jelly roll" such that it can charge the entire roll from each end, not just one side of it and have to propagate the charge across the battery. Much faster charging times, and much higher discharge rates from the new design. Tesla is clearly the leader in this area.
Like you, I have placed my chips on Tesla.

But I still have no desire to own one.
 
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