Nighttime Charging of Electric Cars Makes Power Grid Unstable

[chowderman]

@Tireretired
you are overlooking the fact that people have different "needs"

the today's typical short EV range of a PHEV means every time you come home you have to recharge it.
ever lived some place that had only on street parking? like the city dwellers foisted as prime targets?
there is not likely ever to be "every parking place" charging stations available.

not everyone lives in suburbia when they can pull into their driveway and plug the critter in.
a 200-300 mile range of a PHEV is needed for people who do not live in 'by taxi land'

the technology of range and charging is simply not yet there to make EV a realistic option.
the charging bit may never ever be solved - look at the energy required to full charge an EV only vehicle, and the electrical supply available to a non-city dwelling driver.
you cannot fool Mother Nature - the KW amount required to be put into the battery exceeds the 'home' amp supply design.
modern bit (except for Al Gore places....) work on a 200 amp service. Level 3 charges require 100 amp just for themselfs . . .
totally unmanageable situation for the modern home unless the homeowner is totally devoted to the minutiae of doing thing when permitted.

 

[power1]

@Tireretired
you are overlooking the fact that people have different "needs"

the today's typical short EV range of a PHEV means every time you come home you have to recharge it.
ever lived some place that had only on street parking? like the city dwellers foisted as prime targets?
there is not likely ever to be "every parking place" charging stations available.

not everyone lives in suburbia when they can pull into their driveway and plug the critter in.
a 200-300 mile range of a PHEV is needed for people who do not live in 'by taxi land'

the technology of range and charging is simply not yet there to make EV a realistic option.
the charging bit may never ever be solved - look at the energy required to full charge an EV only vehicle, and the electrical supply available to a non-city dwelling driver.
you cannot fool Mother Nature - the KW amount required to be put into the battery exceeds the 'home' amp supply design.
modern bit (except for Al Gore places....) work on a 200 amp service. Level 3 charges require 100 amp just for themselfs . . .
totally unmanageable situation for the modern home unless the homeowner is totally devoted to the minutiae of doing thing when permitted.

Wonder why the people who are so crazy about electric cars don't just get a bicycle?

 

[tiredretired]

@Tireretired
you are overlooking the fact that people have different "needs"

the today's typical short EV range of a PHEV means every time you come home you have to recharge it.
ever lived some place that had only on street parking? like the city dwellers foisted as prime targets?
there is not likely ever to be "every parking place" charging stations available.

not everyone lives in suburbia when they can pull into their driveway and plug the critter in.
a 200-300 mile range of a PHEV is needed for people who do not live in 'by taxi land'

the technology of range and charging is simply not yet there to make EV a realistic option.
the charging bit may never ever be solved - look at the energy required to full charge an EV only vehicle, and the electrical supply available to a non-city dwelling driver.
you cannot fool Mother Nature - the KW amount required to be put into the battery exceeds the 'home' amp supply design.
modern bit (except for Al Gore places....) work on a 200 amp service. Level 3 charges require 100 amp just for themselfs . . .
totally unmanageable situation for the modern home unless the homeowner is totally devoted to the minutiae of doing thing when permitted.

Hi, well, the beauty of PHEV is that it does not need charging ever if one was so inclined to operate the vehicle thusly. Simply operate the vehicle as a HEV and allow the regenerative braking to charge the battery. A very flexible design for those with different needs. Of course not using the vehicle to its full potential.

I doubt one will ever see a PHEV with that kind of range. A very heavy vehicle when you throw in a 200Kwh battery with an ICE engine and eCVT transmission. Of course I could be wrong on that.

I am a Master Electrician and 47 year IBEW member so very familiar with killerswatts. My former company is currently wiring a medium sized condo complex and the electrical engineer was given a 10% design constraint to furnish Level 2 chargers for the units. A fifty unit condo complex gets 5 chargers for the parking spots of five condos. This is not progress.

And old customer recently contacted me to look at their electrical service. They want to buy 2 BEV's. They have a 100A service, small house, peak load I recorded at 55A. They want 2 50A power supplies to power the chargers in a KIA EV6. I told them it would cost around $6000.00 to upgrade their service to 225A. Underground involved. I suggested they rethink their plans and go with the Sorrento PHEV and use 110V cords overnight to fully charge the PHEV for their 30 mile round trip commutes. I also applauded them for doing their due diligence in getting an estimate from me before purchasing the vehicles.

Level 3 DC chargers are generally not for home use, as you say, they draw upwards of 100A each and are prohibitively expensive for residential use. A level 2 power supply to power the vehicle's on board charger is generally used and cost around 500 bucks or so not counting installation. They require a 50A power supple at 240V.

Good discussion. Cheers.

 

[power1]

My father made a lot of his friends mad at him and mad at me. I was a power plant operator. I would come see my parents at least once a month. My father told all of the old men that every time I came to visit I would bring them a big box of electricity. Told them we had boxes of the stuff setting all over the place. Every time I saw one of the old men they would pull me to the side and ask for a box of electricity the next time I came visiting.

 

[300 H and H]

I don't plan on ever owning any type of electric car (golf cart).

I remember my dear departed Mother saying one of the mistakes in her life was she thought computers were just another
passing "fad"..
She lived to see the internet...

Things do change, like it or not.

 

[m1west]

I remember my dear departed Mother saying one of the mistakes in her life was she thought computers were just another
passing "fad"..
She lived to see the internet...

Things do change, like it or not.

Problem is , I don't see the change is better, in the day if the transition to the computer, they didn't ban type writers, mail and telephones when it started. It was a slow natural transition over at least a decade or more. People transitioned to computers over time because it got better. Remember DOS.

 

[power1]

I remember my dear departed Mother saying one of the mistakes in her life was she thought computers were just another
passing "fad"..
She lived to see the internet...

Things do change, like it or not.

Things do change. People rarely do.

 

[EastTexFrank]

I don't plan on ever owning any type of electric car (golf cart).

Ditto.

 

[chowderman]

if one is not going to use a PHEV as an EV there's no sanity in paying the price for one....
I kept a record of my driving for two months. I could get by on <50 miles/day for six of my 43 driving days in that period.

now, if I rearranged my world to waste lots of time by not combining errands, I could do better - but that's adapting life to the tool, and ain't gonna happen.

better energy density/storage is the key. I don't think we will see significant advances there until the aliens drop by and show us how . . .

 

[tiredretired]

if one is not going to use a PHEV as an EV there's no sanity in paying the price for one....
I kept a record of my driving for two months. I could get by on <50 miles/day for six of my 43 driving days in that period.

now, if I rearranged my world to waste lots of time by not combining errands, I could do better - but that's adapting life to the tool, and ain't gonna happen.

better energy density/storage is the key. I don't think we will see significant advances there until the aliens drop by and show us how . . .

They are already here. How in hell else do you think we have velcro and fiber optic cable.

As for your statement about the PHEV, well think about this one. Uncle Sugar's EV rebate plan basically covers the added expense of a PHEV. There is no such plan for HEV's, only BEV & PHEV. That is why I recommended PHEV's to my customer as they will be basically getting them for the same price as a HEV. I thinks it sugars off in the end to about a 2 grand premium, well worth it.