Might be looking for a new car, possibly a hybrid?

[Melensdad]

I tend to look for months before I make a choice, so this could be a long journey.

162,000 miles on my Audi A6 diesel. Check Engine light is on because of an emissions filter that has gone bad. $3000 for that repair. But the car is exempt from emissions testing. And the issue is not really a problem. So I can run the car until it dies, and it might not die for years. Gets an honest 30+mpg in the city, 40+mpg on the highway. It was performance upgraded by custom Audi tuner "APR" and the ride is fast and comfortable. But its also a 2014 model. So getting a bit long in the tooth.

Looking around there seem to be lots of choices these days for hybrid vehicles that have similar luxury and performance and, if the nation goes into a recession over the next few months, dealerships may start to deal on cars again by the fall of the year.

So anyone have any recommendations on a nice size (Audi A6 size) hybrid sedan that can match the performance, luxury and mpg I current get but give me the convenience and technology features of a 2023 model year car?

A 5 passenger "2 row" SUV would also be in consideration, so just a mid-size SUV so it is easier to park in tight urban parking spots, nothing like a full size Tahoe, Suburban, Expedition, etc.

 

[chowderman]

had a 1990 100Quattro - ran the tires off it. finally it developed "electrical system issues" - plus tires, plus brakes, plus rotors, plus clutch . . .

loved the car, but the repair/maintenance cost were seriously more than its value. had I bought the 200Q (turbo),,, could have
sold it for 2x the original cost . . .

a plug-in hybrid with a 100 mile electric range would do the trick for me. regrets, they are not! there yet . . .
that would 'do' all my local driving on battery - and if replacing a lux / road trip vehicle , , , provide "infinite" painless range.
but the 30-50 mile electric range is nothing more than a very expensive ICE vehicle.

 

[Melensdad]

Not looking at the "plug in hybrids"

Ranges on those are too short to be worthwhile for 95% of our drives. We live too far outside of town to pay the premium for 30-ish miles of battery storage. More looking toward the gas engine, electric assist traditional hybrids.

 

[m1west]

Not looking at the "plug in hybrids"

Ranges on those are too short to be worthwhile for 95% of our drives. We live too far outside of town to pay the premium for 30-ish miles of battery storage. More looking toward the gas engine, electric assist traditional hybrids.

40mpg pretty hard to beat. do they still make them

 

[Melensdad]

40mpg pretty hard to beat. do they still make them

Diesel cars are no longer available here. And they are pretty amazing. Endless torque and quick too. I can embarrass a Mustang with a 5.0 engine in a race, not bad for a fairly large, heavy and luxurious sedan. But the diesel sips fuel. I’d buy another in a heartbeat if the US’s EPA would allow it!

Some of the larger hybrid sedans will get 40mpg. Performance with the electric boost is pretty close to my Audi. 2023 luxury beats 2014 luxury by most any metric.

 

[bczoom]

A few thoughts.

Every one of the Audi's I've had felt "long in the tooth" once they crossed the 160,000 mile mark, regardless of how old they are.

It's a good idea to start shopping early. Many new models take almost a year if you order one.

For what you're looking for, I'd suggest you look at the offerings from Lexus. The reliability of a Toyota but better performance and luxury. We have a RX350 which is really nice and very good performance for a SUV. We have the gasser so it doesn't get much better fuel economy than my Silverado. They're new hybrid offerings have sedans and SUV's in the 40 MPG range.

 

[Doc]

When I was shopping I shied away from hybrids due to the cost of the replacement batteries. That was in 2016 and the battery for the 2013 Toyota Avalon I was considering in hybrid cost over $3000. I can't remember the expected life of the battery.
Hopefully life span of the batteries has grown and the price come down some. Maybe getting15 extra MPG in a hybrid would save you more than enough to pay for the replacement battery.

 

[chowderman]

be very very careful, and do your own math. the government method for hybrid mpg ignores most of reality, and personal usage patterns super-uber-ultra-drastically alter the economics. from my research/calculations, an extra 15 mpg (by government stds) ain't never gonna' cut it.

for me - retired - doing approx. 5,000 miles per year with 1/yr major 'road trip' + single digit local 'extended' range trips - the only possible way a hybrid can pay it's way is if all local usage is 100% electric (assuming only home charging.... charging at a very expensive "public" station blows the whole deal out of the water...) the typical 30-50 mile electric range does not allow that - and we're not like comma in the boonies.

basically, given a plug-in-hybrid that almost never runs out of juice for my "daily" usage - that could work. speed of charging is not an issue when you get home and park it for the night.... on a road trip, I'd likely not even consider 'charging speed' - fill up the tank and drive on!

. . . . not widely publicized, since Tesla has no PR group . . . but apparently the 'new super inexpensive' model uses newer battery / motor technology that will (if true) blow the game wide open.
multiple other companies are touting serious - like 200-300% - gains in energy storage density. so in the next couple years the electric vehicle scene may change rather dramatically.
of course, by then I'll be researching electric Zimmer frames . . .

 

[Melensdad]

be very very careful, and do your own math. the government method for hybrid mpg ignores most of reality, and personal usage patterns super-uber-ultra-drastically alter the economics. from my research/calculations, an extra 15 mpg (by government stds) ain't never gonna' cut it.…..

Enough actual owners are reporting better mpg than .gov mpg estimates to be believable

 

[Melensdad]

Still looking.

Toyota seems to be the brand that has some of the very best hybrids. Lexus is the up-market label and many Toyota and Lexus vehicles use the same drive platforms. Reading lots of reviews. Toyota, Lexus seem to be at/near the top of most of the rankings. Hyundai also seems to be at/near the top of the rankings but none of their products seem to appeal to me, at least at this point.

Right now I'm thinking if I get a cross-over vehicle it might be the Toyota Venza. Its aimed at the buyers looking to stay on pavement and ride in comfort, upper trim levels offer the luxury I'm looking for and the price/performance seems to be reasonable. If I go with a sedan, likely be a Toyota Crown, the upper end trim shares a Lexus drivetrain. Mid-trim level, optioned with the technology package, shares the exact upper end luxury as the top Crown trim, but the same (milder) drive train as the Venza.

Toyota's Highlander is appealing but its a 3 row SUV and that is larger than what I'm looking for if we get an SUV/crossover. Same applies to the Volvo XC90. I owned an XC90 in the past, its a very nice vehicle, but just don't see the need for a 7 seat vehicle at this stage in my life. I don't see any value in the German brands right now, all seem over priced right now, perhaps that will change by the time I'm ready to buy? Audi's mid-size SUV has no rear seat legroom, I've used the dealer's loaner when my A6 has been in the shop, I want more comfort than it offers.

All the vehicle models I'm looking at seem to be aimed at empty nesters. None are hard core anything. Mild performance vehicles with more comfort and economy than flash or prestige.

Toyota Crown old man sedan:

Toyota Venza (old man's SUV)

 

[bczoom]

A Highlander may be my next vehicle (It's my step-moms). Can't speak for the hybrid but the gasser is not good on fuel economy. Like the Lexus RX-350 we have, it struggles to get even 20MPG's.
She doesn't use the 3rd row seat. Even with that seat tucked away, storage is only nominal.

 

[300 H and H]

Global sales leader of ALL cars sales in the second quarter of this year is the Tesla Model 3. Base price in less than a Toyota Camery in most markets.
Plus, the coming self-driving feature is on all cars Tesla makes.
Just saying...

 

[Melensdad]

Global sales leader of ALL cars sales in the second quarter of this year is the Tesla Model 3. Base price in less than a Toyota Camery in most markets.
Plus, the coming self-driving feature is on all cars Tesla makes.
Just saying...

It is not a practical car for our primary vehicle. As a secondary vehicle it would easily work. But not as a primary. Range issues. Plus interior is too small. Plus recharge time. Simply won't work as our primary.

 

[Melensdad]

A Highlander may be my next vehicle (It's my step-moms). Can't speak for the hybrid but the gasser is not good on fuel economy. Like the Lexus RX-350 we have, it struggles to get even 20MPG's.
She doesn't use the 3rd row seat. Even with that seat tucked away, storage is only nominal.

Highlander is a top rated vehicle, and a top rated hybrid that gets lots of raves. But its the same basic size as the Volvo XC90 and we don't need the 3rd row seats. I've got the new 4 door/5 passenger near-luxury pick-up truck for hauling stuff. So the new vehicle doesn't need to have huge cargo capacity, but it does need very good rear seat room, moderate cargo area (at least a decent trunk), and be able to do long distance driving vacations as well as long distance single days. Plus get good fuel economy.

Audi has either gas (poor fuel economy) or all electric. VW is the same, either gas or electric. M-B has 'mild hybrids', gas and electric options but the mild hybrids pretty much suck in the ratings because they simply don't perform well. Never looked at the BMW offerings. Hyundai, and its sister company, Kia get high ratings for their hybrids, but not sure that those appeal to me. I won't buy a GM vehicle. Chrysler doesn't seem to have much to offer. I like the Lincoln SUVs, pretty much all of them, but their fuel economy on the middle sized (roomy 5 seater) Nautilus seems to be pretty abysmal. 2024 model year Lincoln Nautilus Hybrid is announced, and it could have roughly 35mpg in a totally revamped vehicle, which would be an attractive addition to my possible choices.

So for now, looks like the top picks might be a 2024 Nautilus Hybrid, a Toyota Crown or a Toyota Venza

One of the things about the Toyota Crown I like is the ride height, it is an elevated sedan, so the driver's seat is about the height of a typical crossover vehicle. I think it is a love-it or hate-it design. But the mid-level Crown with the technology package gets 41mpg and decent acceleration performance. The top trim level gets 30mpg and nicer acceleration but has the same interior as the mid-level variant if the technology package is selected.

 

[Doc]

Interesting. I'd never heard of the Toyota Crown before. It looks nice for sure.

 

[Melensdad]

Interesting. I'd never heard of the Toyota Crown before. It looks nice for sure.

Crown has been their 'flagship' car for many decades but it has not been available in the USA for the past 25-ish years. Total redesign for 2023 and now available again in the US/Canadian markets. The Avalon was discontinued, the Crown is not really a direct replacement for the Avalon, but actually a slight upgrade over the Avalon.

If I decide on a sedan, it is currently the only model of any brand that looks interesting. Actually I like the Lincoln Continental sedan, but it is bigger than I want to buy. So the Crown looks like the best option.

For a SUV the things I am looking for are mild manners, good on pavement, luxury features, good economy and modest size. So no rock crawling and not a 7 passenger behemoth that will be a nightmare to park in a mini-size Chicago parking space. I want luxury seats for 4 people. I want to be able to do a driving vacation with 2 adults + a toddler, and enough room for luggage.

Lincoln's 2024 totally redefined Nautilus and Toyota's Venza both fit that bill very nicely. Lexus has a variant of the Venza that is a bit more upscale, but the Venza uses the SAME drivetrain and has plenty of luxury at the top of the range so I see no reason ot go to teh Lexus marque. Naitilus from Lincoln costs $10K more than the Venza, gets somewhat less economy, but offers enough more luxury that the tradeoffs might be worth the cost.