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Just a smidgeon of a dilemma.

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
Hi gang!
I'm almost completely off the internet. I only use it to order stuff, research how to's, and email.
Now and then I drop by here, but anything I have to say anymore would take pages to write, and I just can't bring myself to spend that much time composing and writing, but this one I will because I need some solid advice, if it's here. I thank you!

I'm going to make this as short as possible, but detail will be needed, so here goes.

I live at the end of a 2 mile dirt road. The road crosses a number of owned, but uninhabited properties.
It is not county.
The road was cut with the intention of being able to bring potential buyers to each property in order to show them.
The road is also easement protected so no one can close off their property to travel for others to get in and out.
People have come and gone in my 25 years here.
Most come in with their big plans and ideas, only to rip up their properties, bring in their junk and campers etc. then bail out when they realize living in the desert takes much more work, stamina, skills, money and knowledge than they possess.
Some have even split when they realized no one was coming to provide electricity and water.🙄

In the beginning, we had nothing, and the road was just short of a 4 wheel drive jeep trail. My wife and I had a pick, a few shovels and a wheelbarrow.
We spent many hundreds of back breaking hours trying to make it possible to travel on without being tossed around the car like a ragdoll in a dryer.
We built drags, and again, many hours were spent just driving around trying to smooth the road, at the same time prying up boulders, and tossing endless rocks from the size of baseballs and grapefruits to bowling balls and toaster ovens.

After a very long time, the god's smiled on us, and we ended up with an old 2 wheel drive case skiploader with a gannon, but no brakes.
But, who the hell needs brakes when you have a gannon right?

Again, zillions of hours were spent learning how to use the machine, moving many tons of earth from one place to another covering rocks lying beneath the road that were the size of houses.
I spent a great deal of time trying to reform all the corners and turns with the proper (camber?) (tilt?) whatever it's called like the turns on a race track.

I then traded off the first tractor for a much newer one with 4 wheel drive, and brakes!
There is so much rock, DG, and sand, but not a whole lot of packable material, but over the years I have rolled in enough to make it easily groomable.
As a matter of fact, I pretty much removed all the loose rock from the top foot or so, allowing me to use just the back edge of the gannon to smooth the road like frosting on a cake.
As of a few weeks ago, If I had the money, I would say it could easily be paved with very little prep work.

Then (a few weeks ago) three guys (brothers) come down my drive and stop at the gate. They introduce themselves as my new neighbors.
Their big plan is to build each one a home for themselves and their wives.

I offered lots of advice of things to do and not do having 25 years of experience living off grid in the middle of nowhere.
Although they asked for it, they heeded none.

The first thing they decided was that the road wasn't wide enough, so they sent some guy in with a bulldozer who completely destroyed my 25 years of work.
It was as if I had done nothing over that time by the time this guy was done.
The new neighbor wasn't even present to oversee this guy's work.

When I came across the dozer operator, I asked him what contingencies he had for finishing the road.
He had none.
Needless to say, the man writing this had gone from a rather peaceful happy man, to just short of a raving lunatic.
I got the new owners number from the dozer operator, and as graceful and as tactfully as I could (which I couldn't) I asked the guy how he planned on making the road travelable again.
He had made no plans for a grader or anything, and wasn't planning to come back out here from Washington for quite a few months.
Somehow the idiot thought you send in a dozer, and your road is done.
Much like someone thinking they can order a cement truck, have it poured out, and tada, you have a perfect floor or slab.

I explained to the guy that the road can't be traveled, and if he tried bringing in his fifth wheel camper, all the cabinets would be on the floor, the tires destroyed, and maybe even a broken axle by the time he got to his property.

He didn't apologize or anything, except to say that he didn't want to start things out by pissing me off, or starting a war, which in my eyes is pretty much what he did.
He came into my world, said hello, knocked over my 10,000 house of cards, took a shit on the coffee table and left.

I explained that the road would need a hell of a lot of work to be driveable again, or have it anywhere close to what is was when he first drove in.
He asked what should be done.
I told him it would cost at least as much as the dozer and operator to being in a road grader or anything else to repair the mess and finish the road properly, and rework all the drainage I had built.

He knew I had a machine before he sent in the dozer. I guess it didn't even cross his mind to inform me about the dozer, otherwise I could have worked with the guy and shown him the trouble spots, and where not to cut.
But alas, that wasn't the case.

I told him I was going to have to repair the road just so my wife and I could safely and easily get in and out, never mind his family and their campers and whatever they planned to bring in.
He asked what I would charge.
I told him $75/hr, which was a pretty good deal being as I was already here, and he wouldn't have to pay for transport.
He asked how long it would take.
I said I haven't a clue, but it's going to take a lot of work.

At this point, the dozer was still parked on his property while the operator scheduled and waited for transport.

He suggested I get with the dozer guy, and see what he could do on the way out, which I did, but mostly all I could do was to try and get him to move material so I would have something to work with.
I sent the man a text that I was going to be working with the dozer guy on the way out.
No response.

I've spent many days now reworking the road, putting earth back where it needed to be, filling the big chunks where the dozer blade dove way too deep, again prying up boulders by hand, and even hiring a few people to walk along picking and kicking virtual dump trucks of rock out of the way.
I'm guessing myself, I've probably gotten on and off tractor 1000 times in the last week just to pick rock myself.
My wife tried to help, and damn near killed herself.


I sent him a text last night telling him the condition of the road was almost good again, and now, only time, a little rain, and my general usual maintenance was going to be needed before it will even be close to what it was.
I told him I have 50 hours into the project.

No response.

Without saying anything, I know what I want to do, and the things I want to do that I shouldn't do, but what I'd really like to hear is,
WHAT WOULD YOU DO AT THIS POINT?
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Wow Joe. What a nightmare.
I can relate having a 1/2mile driveway into my place that used to take a 4WD and everything in the vehicle tied down to traverse. The wife and I have spent much of this year making it passable after my neighbor "dozed" it ( with my dozer no less) to bring in his new mobile home. He dozed it over and displaced culverts and left big boulders everywhere.
Rains came and made much of the dirt into a gooey soup deeper than the axles on my Dodge one ton. I actually was stuck once up to the oil pan and had to be dragged off.

He doesn't even live there now.

My issue is that more than half the road I built is not my property but on the right of way of the power company who gave me permission to build it in the first place.



My first question to you is; who owns the land on which you built the old road?

So, if the y or the property owner wants to change it, I have no recourse. But if it were my land I would.

If it is you land, you have legal remedies. Otherwise , not a lot you can do .

That said, I would be a bit worried about three brothers, who's parent's did not teach them the value of respect, who may soon be your neighbors.
 

jillcrate

Well-known member
I am sorry Joe.... Alot of people are so mean now,its hard to talk to them....

Im sorry they are destroying things around ya buddy..... Keep trying to fight it is all you can do :(

Good luck :)
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
Wow Joe. What a nightmare.
I can relate having a 1/2mile driveway into my place that used to take a 4WD and everything in the vehicle tied down to traverse. The wife and I have spent much of this year making it passable after my neighbor "dozed" it ( with my dozer no less) to bring in his new mobile home. He dozed it over and displaced culverts and left big boulders everywhere.
Rains came and made much of the dirt into a gooey soup deeper than the axles on my Dodge one ton. I actually was stuck once up to the oil pan and had to be dragged off.

He doesn't even live there now.

My issue is that more than half the road I built is not my property but on the right of way of the power company who gave me permission to build it in the first place.



My first question to you is; who owns the land on which you built the old road?

So, if the y or the property owner wants to change it, I have no recourse. But if it were my land I would.

If it is you land, you have legal remedies. Otherwise , not a lot you can do .

That said, I would be a bit worried about three brothers, who's parent's did not teach them the value of respect, who may soon be your neighbors.
Thank you Franc.
Only part of what he did is on his property.
None of the road is on mine, but as I said, it crosses multiple properties, and I'm on the very end, and I need to be able to get out, so being as no one has lived up here for many years, and the county sure as hell isn't coming in, there's been no one to do it except me, so I just buckle down and do it.

The thing is also, he had no right to doze through those other properties not on his land.
I wish I could've just left it; no helicopter.

But deeper yet, this is the exact shit I came out here to escape in '95.
People who don't care about anyone or anything besides themselves and their goals.
Idiots who make you wonder how they remember to breathe.
I could go on forever....

These people are obviously idiots without the slightest idea of what it's like out here.
He said they want the same thing I do, to get away from it all and have peace.
I told him if that's what you really want to do, you don't find your perfect hiding place and pave a fucking highway to your door!!!

Nonetheless, they're gonna have a whole lot of problems just looking at where they carved out thinking where they're gonna build.
Brilliant! Put your house in a wash.
Good job! You planned for another in a major ravine!!!
Dammit, it just goes on...already.

Anyways, back on point.
I really don't want any neighbors, but hell, they bought, and I can't stop them from doing anything.
That's gonna be a tough one in itself, but even more, the last thing I want in this world is to have someone move next door that I'm going to be at war with for the rest of my life.
I've worked too hard to find my inner peace, and I can't have someone or something constantly eating my lunch, and living in my skull rent free.

I don't want to be angry, I don't want to fight, and on the same note, I don't want him thinking I'm some kind of pushover either.
I've had that kind of "Neighbor" out here before.
This whole thing isn't the first time this has happened.

I want to be paid for this this time, period.
But I don't want war.
I end up feeling guilty, because I don't play fair at all when attacked.
But then there's my peace of mind.....

Just............fuck, I don't know.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Hey Joe.
What a mess. I hope you took pics of the way the dozer dude left things.
I have to wonder WTH the dozer dude was supposed to do? Why come in and tear up a perfectly good road? The brothers sure as hell did not hire him to do that.
I can't imagine any dozer guy worth his salt leaving things in the shape your describe. It's like their hired him to tear up the road so you can't get back and forth. A nightmare. Then having to collect nearly 4k from this dufus will not be fun and will set up your relationship with him for years to come. Not good at all. Wish I had a real answer for ya.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Sounds like the first gully washer will send them packing.

City folks watch the prepper off grid crap on TV, The producers of those shows make it look easy. Even possible, for the uninformed, to survive out there in the wild. But even on those shows, they bring their toys and technologies that will fail them when the SHTF.

Not the kind of people you will want around then because they will have NEEDs that will drain your resources and contribute nothing.

Good luck with that.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
Thanks so far everyone.

Yeah Franc, something like that is certain to happen, a big rainstorm and it'll all wash downhill, onto the road, and maybe then onto my property.
On the same note, who ever heard of three brothers all investing together on a piece of land, and living together, not only themselves, but with their wives. Not a good recipe in my book.
Dollars to doughnuts, they'll all probably end up killing each other, or as per the past, they'll just get shit started, and the whole thing will go upside down for one reason or another.

I'm glad that you can relate Franc, because I know you understand how I feel.
I've been ransacked and cleaned out a few times in my life.
I've never been raped, but this feels somewhere close, I think.

This poor guy is in for so many rude surprises.
He's not the first idiot on this piece of earth.
He's not even the second.
He's the third.

When the first guy sold the property, he had all kinds of old heavy equipment on it. Small dozers, engines, tracks, blades, frames and what have you.
He had at least one running dozer when he left, and he used it to bury all the others.
The next guy thought he was going to plant 20 acres of grapes in the desert, which then changed to pumpkins, then to pecans.
He mowed the property with a D-8, put a poorly constructed "Future" dam above the site and then bailed, burying all his shit, including a 50 foot fifth wheel camper, tons of steel, farm implements, wheels, tires, insulation, refrigerators and so on.....

It won't be long before these idiots are forced to realize their plan was no plan at all, and they will go belly up.
I just hope they do before they do any more damage to Mr Joe's neighborhood.
In the meantime, I really want to stick him with a bill before he bails.

I've been a nice guy to all who have tried to make it here, but it's always for not.
This guy is operating under the same formula as all the others. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but so far, he's just the same as the rest.
Much like the folks who leave a certain communist state seeking reprieve elsewhere, only to bring their BS and everything they tried to escape along with them.

How can you live in a cold rainy climate like Washington, then think you'll be happy living in death valley?
They're gonna hate it here when it reaches 120º-130º+ in the summer, followed by monsoonal flooding.

I don't believe in trying to accelerate other's karma, it's not right, but good Lord, I really want to.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'd write up a NICE letter, reviewing the phone calls, conversations and text messages. Those are evidence, even the phone calls. But you need to document them so a friendly letter outlining your conversation(s) would do that. Photos of the road and dozer. The itemized your work to repair said destruction.

Include a photo of the current road, asking if he thinks it looks good. Do not include a bill for your time! Bite your tongue, play nice, no animosity at all.

Wait for his response. At least 15 days.

At day 30, if he does not respond, then send him a bill. Written out, in invoice form. Referencing the prior letter, prior calls, texts, photos. Reference the $75/hour. Hell even give him a discount just to prove a point. Due date 10 days from receipt.

Wait for a response. Again at least 15 days. On day 30 file a case in small claims court. You will have all the documentation, he will be unprepared.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm about to enter your world Joe, only here in the Mo. Ozarks. The land is rocky, craggy and ridden with critters who will never let it be tamed. Armadillos, Coyotes, poisonous snakes, ticks, chiggers that come with chain saws and Mormon fly's so big they have numbers on the side. Scorpions and rats that chew on tires and brake lines.

Land so rocky One cannot put a shovel into the ground anywhere

Tame it??

I am, to some degree, ill prepared to do so. Mostly because of my age, not my ability, or knowledge. I lived on a farm and learned to eat what I grew or I didn't eat. No Ac in summer, and kept as warm in winter by the work of cutting firewood, as from the fireplace itself. Water was always and issue as was electric power. "Running water" wasn't from a pipe but was because you ran through the cold with the bucket.

I want to live minimally in my old age and not worry about my neighbors because they too are living by the sweat of their brow and understand that respect of another's hard work, is a necessary virtue of communal survival. Without it you are a bother, and a burden, to your neighbors. So far, most of my neighbors have been that way.

The one who tore up the road moved to town. A nice sort but a little annoyed with city folk for neighbors. The others have been incredibly helpful, even patient, with the city folk who have invaded their space.

We shall see how it develops

Good luck with you mess..
 
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Bannedjoe

Well-known member
I wish you all the luck in the world Franc!
I'm beginning to believe you can run from the brain dead, but you cannot hide.
And you might be right about all the prepper hype.

MelensDad,
Thanks for a plan, I think it's sounds good, too fair, but yet reasonable.
I made a video the first day and kept it under private settings after muting much of the audio so I could show him what was what.
There is still some colorful language though, so anyone who finds offense in spoken words should probably turn off the sound if curious.
The original is almost 10 minutes long, and even this 4 minute one couldn't be sent by phone, so I had to use youtube.
The video doesn't do it justice, but before he arrived, you could pretty much drive the road with an open cup of coffee.

It's gonna hurt my brain a bit, but I think I can document the conversations and events.
Tomorrow, I will video, and document my work, time, fuel, and hands hired to help.
I will also screen shot the texts for later reference, although they are minimal.
Most of our conversations were over the phone, so I'm not sure what to do about that, but if he gets all weird, I will consider small claims, or try putting a lien on his property for non-payment of services rendered.

Thanks.
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Im not sure what to do in your current situation, but in the passed when the property out there comes up for sale you should have bought it. Or when this group fails and wants to dump it cheap buy it. Then it can't happen again. Up on the Mountain my cabin neighbors are great, friendly and helpful. The only folks that suck there is the forest service.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
T
Im not sure what to do in your current situation, but in the passed when the property out there comes up for sale you should have bought it. Or when this group fails and wants to dump it cheap buy it. Then it can't happen again. Up on the Mountain my cabin neighbors are great, friendly and helpful. The only folks that suck there is the forest service.
I maybe might have bought it from my neighbor when he tried to sell, but his price was way too high, and I know what's buried there.;)
 

J5 Bombardier

Well-known member
The fun of a shared road , we are going though something the same here, where the first owner off the main road thinks he can put a locked gate up. It's at the back of our properties , so not used every day, but he's the new guy , where as the rest of us owners share the same family name as the road is legally called . To be continued
As for your posts being far and few between, I for one miss them. I get to live out desert living through you, without fear of scorpion or snake bite !
Regards J5 Bombardier
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Watching that video reminds me of the road coming into our place. Not my driveway,,,, the County road.

It hasn't been graded in 6-8 years. It got so bad the dash broke in my truck. Literally had pieces flying off. No matter how slow you went.

Finally, last August, I guess somebody with juice got the county to grade the incoming road and replace the blown culverts. It's still a bouncy ride but at least the truck parts stay attached.


Douglas county is the poorest in the state. But there are some people on this road that have a wedding site with waterfalls, views, and cabins. so, . Nobody was coming in. I'm thinking they had juice or legal pressure because their business was suffering. Also,the improvements stopped at their address, we are another 1/2 mile down the county road.

That's OK. I have a dozer and a JD 310 bucket with a backhoe. If the County road gets bad again, I'll do it but the 6 miles coming in is on them.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
I'm still workin' on the SOB, because I want it the way I want it.
I'm still wanting reimbursement for the 50 hours to make it drivable again, after that, the extra hours making it sweet and over the top for a dirt road I'll call my own.
Yesterday afternoon, I was pretty happy with the results, and called it macaroni. I figured it just needs to pack now naturally with a little rain, and the normal driving.
After putting a smooth polish on it, I filled my bucket, and rolled.
And rolled, and rolled......

Just shortly before dinner I was out in the garage, and saw it coming in.
But it wasn't the abundant sunshine that the good 'ol Weather Underground had promised.

I'd file it somewhere between holy shit and typhoon.
I'm now aware of all the new channels I'll be diverting, or trying to fill with rock.
I spent the better part of the morning making a double pass just trying to smooth out last night's damage, and dig a few quick detention ponds.


As I sit here typing this, I just heard thunder.
I'm really and for serious beginning to start taking this whole thing way more than coincidence; I'm about to take this personally.

On a similar note, it appears that Mr New Guy has either caught the covid, is dead, or has decided to ignore me, which I in fact texted to him after asking for his email addy so I could show him my work and see if it's what he had originally hoped for, but alas, nothing.

Maybe the MF is out shopping for a road grader.
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
Just in case anyone wants to see what it's like now.
There's still a few bumpy spots that will be worked out over time, but you can damn near put an open cup of coffee on the dash.
Not that you'd want to do that, but you almost could.
There's still a bunch of rock in the road, and some soft spots, but you know what, I'm done for now.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Quite a difference Joe.

I am sure you new neighbors will appreciate your efforts. Right?
 

Bannedjoe

Well-known member
That looks like it would be fun on a YZ490 full throttle all the way!
It is a lot of fun to ride the road when it's rock free and smooth.
The kids like it too.
I have a small fleet of these bikes.
 

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