Debt ceiling threatens military pay

[muleman]

 

[FrancSevin]

Fact is, raising the debt ceiling threatens everyone's pay.

 

[joec]

Fact is not raising the debt ceiling will cause the US to default, pretty much a rise in interest paid on the debt or a rush to sell US assets around the world crashing pretty much everything. Eventually leading to shutting down the government both federal and local.

 

[jimbo]

Fact is not raising the debt ceiling will cause the US to default, pretty much a rise in interest paid on the debt or a rush to sell US assets around the world crashing pretty much everything. Eventually leading to shutting down the government both federal and local.

If the debt ceiling is just a number that must be fought over a couple of times a year without any measures to curb spending, then why bother with it at all?

Shutting down the government for a while may not be a bad thing. Once the politicians checks start to bounce and the planes and limos get ground, maybe something will get done.

 

[FrancSevin]

Fact is not raising the debt ceiling will cause the US to default, pretty much a rise in interest paid on the debt or a rush to sell US assets around the world crashing pretty much everything. Eventually leading to shutting down the government both federal and local.

Let me understand this please.
Your sayin' we must borrow more money to pay the interest on the money we already borrowed? Exactly how does that eventualy work out?

Try that idea with your local bank.

People who cannot show enough income to pay their bills comfortably generaly have low credit ratings and pay higher interest. So how does borrowing more change our situation for the better?

 

[Doc]

Let me understand this please.
Your sayin' we must borrow more money to pay the interest on the money we already borrowed? Exactly how does that eventualy work out?

Try that idea with your local bank.

People who cannot show enough income to pay their bills comfortably generally have low credit ratings and pay higher interest. So how does borrowing more change that for the better?

Joe is right, as crazy as it sounds. Of course you could not try that with the local bank. They would have foreclosed on you years ago if you ran your account like the folks in Washington mismanage our tax dollars. Spending so much more than they ever take in and not giving a chit about it.

They have painted us all into this corner. It is a no win situation and yep, you and I and everyone else knows they will increase the debt ceiling once again. I only hope and pray they also include some real spending cuts. Cuts that hurt like hell but really do some good. BIG cuts. It is the only way we have a chance to get out of this madness.

Congress pay should be tied to this. Every time they have to increase the debt ceiling, they lose 20% of their pay and never ever get it back. yeah, I'm dreaming. .....

 

[FrancSevin]

Joe is right, as crazy as it sounds. Of course you could not try that with the local bank. They would have foreclosed on you years ago if you ran your account like the folks in Washington mismanage our tax dollars. Spending so much more than they ever take in and not giving a chit about it.

They have painted us all into this corner. It is a no win situation and yep, you and I and everyone else knows they will increase the debt ceiling once again. I only hope and pray they also include some real spending cuts. Cuts that hurt like hell but really do some good. BIG cuts. It is the only way we have a chance to get out of this madness.

Congress pay should be tied to this. Every time they have to increase the debt ceiling, they lose 20% of their pay and never ever get it back. yeah, I'm dreaming. .....

Joe is right in that we have to borrow money to pay the interest, because we spend more than we have as revenue.
Sounds crazy? well yes.
Sorry, but that is crazy.

And continuing to do so,"at an accelerated rate" is financial suicide. There is simply a point of negative return and we are just about passed it,if not already.

If we continue on this path, who sees any other outcome but disaster here?

The Fiscal Cliff lie saw political brinkmanship,,,, all for theater. With all the drama, threats and late night shenanigans, no serious spending cuts came of it. Now the President says such discussions are off the table.

The world is tired of our Monopoly money system. It matters little if we default or pay with newly printed dollars, or over leveraged Yaun's. This cannot end well.

 

[jimbo]

Joe is right, as crazy as it sounds. Of course you could not try that with the local bank. They would have foreclosed on you years ago if you ran your account like the folks in Washington mismanage our tax dollars. Spending so much more than they ever take in and not giving a chit about it.

They have painted us all into this corner. It is a no win situation and yep, you and I and everyone else knows they will increase the debt ceiling once again. I only hope and pray they also include some real spending cuts. Cuts that hurt like hell but really do some good. BIG cuts. It is the only way we have a chance to get out of this madness.

Congress pay should be tied to this. Every time they have to increase the debt ceiling, they lose 20% of their pay and never ever get it back. yeah, I'm dreaming. .....

You are dreaming, Doc. The budget makers got us into this mess, and I don't see a way out at this point. Each citizen owes around 50K in fed debt, which means around a hundred K for each taxpayer. We can continue as long as others are willing to fund our foolishness.

China, which I know is not our largest debt holder, loans us money so that we can use it to purchase goods from them, thus keeping their economy strong. At some point, China will no longer need us as a customer, and that house of cards will come tumbling down. At the present time not all the debt gets sold, and the Fed ends up purchasing some of it. Or, in other words we are purchasing our own debt. In the real world, this is called kiting, and is illegal.

There will be no spending cuts. In the end the debt ceiling will be raised, which Washington will then use to make a down payment on more spending.

 

[bczoom]

[mod hat on]
Time to move this thread from "Photos, Cartoons & Videos Forum" to a Debate section?
[mod hat off]

 

[FrancSevin]

[mod hat on]
Time to move this thread from "Photos, Cartoons & Videos Forum" to a Debate section?
[mod hat off]

It's Muley's fault.

HE STARTED IT!

 

[joec]

Let me understand this please.
Your sayin' we must borrow more money to pay the interest on the money we already borrowed? Exactly how does that eventualy work out?

Try that idea with your local bank.

People who cannot show enough income to pay their bills comfortably generaly have low credit ratings and pay higher interest. So how does borrowing more change our situation for the better?

Well we are now due to the last debt ceiling problem even though we didn't default on it. Now they still reduced our credit rating for the first time in US history which is a few billion added to the debt. Now if they do it again it will cost us more and if they default/refuse to pay our bills the world economy will soon follow suit putting us into a world wide depression that will make the last one look like a cake walk.

Now the debt ceiling has to do with money already owed often for decades. Most of the US debt is held by citizens of the USA with the balance to others as borrowed. Now if those that set credit ratings again feel we push the chance of default they will lower our rating again.

The second part is if the congress decides to stop funding the government or shut it down as they did under Clinton then all government functions from Social Security payments to military salaries etc. People don't get paid that work for the federal government and the states don't get paid the federal governments part of what they depend on bringing them down also. Now that is what will happen if they decide to stop funding the government which they are also talking about doing in addition to defaulting on the debt ceiling.

 

[Kane]

Failure to raise the debt ceiling threatens nobody's pay. Just another ruse by the White House to use grandma and the starving children (and now the military) to tug on our heartstrings ... to create a crisis so that we have to act NOW.

No one is threatened. Not grandma nor the pay of a single Marine. There's enough money sloshing around in DC to pay every debt owed with a just little creative prioritization. But to put the military pay at the top of the list?

Bull shit. For Obama to play this game again is despicable.

If they want to prioritize, they can stop paying the salaries of our worthless Congressmen.

 

[joec]

Failure to raise the debt ceiling threatens nobody's pay. Just another ruse by the White House to use grandma and the starving children (and now the military) to tug on our heartstrings ... to create a crisis so that we have to act NOW.

No one is threatened. Not grandma nor the pay of a single Marine. There's enough money sloshing around in DC to pay every debt owed with a just little creative prioritization. But to put the military pay at the top of the list?

Bull shit.

If they want to prioritize, they can stop paying the salaries of our worthless Congressmen.

Kane please clear your mind for a moment and take a breath. The government will run out of money about Feb 15 or so. At that point if the debt ceiling hasn't been raised and the government won't have the money to pay anything. Now some in the house are talking about at that point letting it stay shut down till they get their way which is basically another self imposed cliff. Now you want a real fear tactic try the GOP and Congress with the self imposed crisis they keep bringing on themselves. The debt is a major problem but we have at least a decade or so to fix it so it isn't as pressing that it can't be brought under control over that time, meanwhile forcing austerity on the country at this time will make it much worse. Now if you don't buy that then wait and see if they do either default on this nations debt or shut down the government again. Either way if it happens the GOP will have committed suicide in front of everyone on this planet.

Now as for threatening anyone pay think a bit about that, since it will tank the US economy for at least then next half a century if not longer. It is hard to sell a product when people don't have jobs or make a living to buy them. Oh and this is due to the Congress and not the white house.

 

[FrancSevin]

Joe, I suggestyou takea breath. The government doesn't "Runout of mone"this coming March. The bank account will not be Zero.

And a government shut down will not drop planes out of the air, nor will it threaten national security. We are told to be scared because the police won't come and our teachers will be laid off and the comfortable world will stop as we know it. they always use that ruse. And it is a lie.

But, folks don't want things as we know it to stop, so they are fine with your logic "we have 10 yearsto fix it" and again we will kick the can down the road.

More and more sensible people are saying"at some point reality will take us off the road." We will be done, in the ditch done. At which point finding someone to blame for how we ended up there will be pointless. You see, when no one will loan us the money, or trust the value of ours, then nobody will get paid.

And Why we ended up there will be un contestable. But the progressive elites will continue to speak otherwise. They will talk about creating such useful tools and minting a one trillion dollar coin, No common sense required. After all, they went to Harvard.

And the sheeple fools will buy in on the hope that the TV comes back on in time for the Super Bowl.

 

[joec]

The debt limit is reached at that point the USA is technically out of money or the ability to borrow more which means we will default on our debts. Now this is just me saying it as it also comes from the Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street and many others as to how dire it is to let that happen. The Government shut down is another problem self imposed by congress on it self or basically a treat by the House GOP to force what they want on the rest of us. That stops people from getting paid as sure as if we default on the debt ceiling we will bring on a serious depression. Now buy it or not I really don't care what you folks believe as that is what will happen if congress actually goes through with either of these objectives.

As for 10 years to fix it we do but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start by lowering what we spend we just need to do it in a smart way that allows for growth in this country as well.

 

[tiredretired]

Blah, blah, blah. How about we cut spending so there will be no need to raise the debt ceiling. We keep our debt below the mandated limit by spending less.

Is that such an original concept? It is what I do when I manage my money. I spend less than I take it and put a bit away for a rainy day. If I find that is not happening, I find ways to cut expenses to make it happen if I cannot get more income to cover.

Why in fuck is that such an original concept for this dumb ass President to wrap his mind around?

I do believe the term is "Living within one's means"

 

[Kane]

Kane please clear your mind for a moment and take a breath. The government will run out of money about Feb 15 or so. At that point if the debt ceiling hasn't been raised and the government won't have the money to pay anything. Now some in the house are talking about at that point letting it stay shut down till they get their way which is basically another self imposed cliff. Now you want a real fear tactic try the GOP and Congress with the self imposed crisis they keep bringing on themselves. The debt is a major problem but we have at least a decade or so to fix it so it isn't as pressing that it can't be brought under control over that time, meanwhile forcing austerity on the country at this time will make it much worse. Now if you don't buy that then wait and see if they do either default on this nations debt or shut down the government again. Either way if it happens the GOP will have committed suicide in front of everyone on this planet.

Now as for threatening anyone pay think a bit about that, since it will tank the US economy for at least then next half a century if not longer. It is hard to sell a product when people don't have jobs or make a living to buy them. Oh and this is due to the Congress and not the white house.

You believe that hooey, joec? We will not be able to pay the bills? You're way to old to believe that phony plea. And Hussien should be ashamed of himself to suggest such a pathetic notion to the people.

Trust me, joec, we'll prioritize and somehow (sarcasm) to rob the millions of Peters in our bloated government to pay Paul. I bet even you can think of a few places that we can juggle to 'pay the bills'. And I doubt if paying the Army or the Marines is the first thing to go. geeeeez.



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• Center for Women Veterans
• Office of Advisory Committee Management
• Office of Employment Discrimination Complaint Adjudication
• Office of Survivors Assistance
• Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization
• Veterans Service Organizations Liaison

Independent Agencies and Government Corporations

• Administrative Conference of the United States
• Advisory Council on Historic Preservation
• African Development Foundation
• Amtrak (National Railroad Passenger Corporation)
• Armed Forces Retirement Home
• Central Intelligence Agency
• Commission on Civil Rights
• Commodity Futures Trading Commission
• Consumer Product Safety Commission
• Corporation for National and Community Service
• Corporation for Public Broadcasting
  • Public Broadcasting Service (Partially funded)
  • National Public Radio (Partially funded)
• Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency
• Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board
• Election Assistance Commission
• Environmental Protection Agency
• Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
• Export-Import Bank of the United States
• Farm Credit Administration
• Federal Communications Commission
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
• Federal Election Commission
• Federal Housing Finance Board
• Federal Labor Relations Authority
• Federal Maritime Commission
• Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
• Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission
• Federal Reserve System
  • United States Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
• Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
• Federal Trade Commission
• General Services Administration
• Helen Keller National Center
• Institute of Museum and Library Services
• Inter-American Foundation
• International Broadcasting Bureau
• Merit Systems Protection Board
• Military Postal Service Agency
• National Aeronautics and Space Administration
• National Archives and Records Administration
  • Office of the Federal Register
• National Capital Planning Commission
• National Constitution Center
• National Council on Disability
• National Credit Union Administration
  • Central Liquidity Facility
• National Endowment for the Arts
• National Endowment for the Humanities
• National Labor Relations Board
• National Mediation Board
• National Science Foundation
  • United States Antarctic Program
• National Transportation Safety Board
• Nuclear Regulatory Commission
• Office of the Federal Coordinator, Alaska Natural Gas Transportation Projects
• Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
• Office of Compliance
• Office of Government Ethics
• Office of Personnel Management
  • Federal Executive Institute
  • Combined Federal Campaign
• Office of Special Counsel
• Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive
• Office of the Director of National Intelligence
  • Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity
• Overseas Private Investment Corporation
• Panama Canal Commission
• Peace Corps
• Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
• Postal Regulatory Commission
• Railroad Retirement Board
• Securities and Exchange Commission
• Securities Investor Protection Corporation
• Selective Service System
• Small Business Administration
• Social Security Administration
• Tennessee Valley Authority
• U.S. Trade and Development Agency
• United States Agency for International Development
• United States International Trade Commission
• United States Postal Service

Proposed Government Corporation

• Strategic Economic and Energy Development

Inspectors General

• Inspector General - full list U.S. Inspectors General

Boards and commissions

• Abraham Lincoln Bicentennial Foundation
• Administrative Committee of the Federal Register
• American Battle Monuments Commission
• Appalachian Regional Commission
• Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (United States Access Board)
• Arctic Research Commission
• Arthritis and Musculoskeletal Interagency Coordinating Committee
• Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation
• Broadcasting Board of Governors
• Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board
• Chief Acquisition Officers Council
• Chief Financial Officers Council
• Chief Human Capital Officers Council
• Chief Information Officers Council
• Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee
• Commission of Fine Arts
• Commission on International Religious Freedom
• Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (United States Helsinki Commission)
• Commission on Wartime Contracting (Will sunset when announced (currently not announced) )
• Committee for Purchase from People Who Are Blind or Severely Disabled
• Committee for the Implementation of Textile Agreements
• Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States
• Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
• Defense Acquisition University
• Delaware River Basin Commission
• Denali Commission
• Endangered Species Committee
• Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
• Federal Advisory Committees
• Federal Executive Boards
• Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council
• Federal Financing Bank
• Federal Geographic Data Committee
• Federal Interagency Committee for the Management of Noxious and Exotic Weeds
• Federal Interagency Committee on Education
• Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy
• Federal Laboratory Consortium for Technology Transfer
• Federal Library and Information Center Committee
• Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission
• Harry S. Truman Scholarship Foundation
• Illinois and Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor Commission
• Indian Arts and Crafts Board
• Interagency Alternate Dispute Resolution Working Group
• Interagency Council on Homelessness
• Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin
• J. William Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board
• James Madison Memorial Fellowship Foundation
• Japan-United States Friendship Commission
• Joint Board for the Enrollment of Actuaries
• Joint Fire Science Program
• Marine Mammal Commission
• Migratory Bird Conservation Commission
• Millennium Challenge Corporation
• Mississippi River Commission
• Morris K. Udall and Stewart L. Udall Foundation
• National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare
• National Indian Gaming Commission
• National Interagency Fire Center
• National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling
• National Park Foundation
• Northwest Power and Conservation Council (Northwest Power Planning Council)
• Nuclear Regulatory Commission
• Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board
• Preserve America
• Presidential Commission for the Study of Bioethical Issues
• President's Council on Fitness, Sports, and Nutrition
• Presidents Management Council
• Presidio Trust
• Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board
• Regulatory Service Center (Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs)
• Social Security Advisory Board
• Susquehanna River Basin Commission
• Taxpayer Advocacy Panel
• United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
• Veterans Day National Committee
• Vietnam Educational Foundation
• White House Commission on Presidential Scholars (Presidential Scholars Program)
• White House Commission on the National Moment of Remembrance

Chartered Organizations

These organizations are some of the organizations who hold a congressional charter. They aren't part of the United States government. Even though some are funded by the United States government.

• YMCA International
  • YMCA of America Inc.
• Boys and Girls Clubs of America
• American Red Cross
• American Red Crescent Movement
• Boy Scouts of America
• Girl Scouts of America
• International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement
• World Organization of the Scout Movement
• Planned Parenthood
  • Planned Parenthood of America
• National Ski Patrol
• National Academy of the Sciences

Quasi-Official Agencies

• Legal Services Corporation
• Smithsonian Institution
• John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
• State Justice Institute
• United States Institute of Peace
• National Trust for Historic Preservation
• Brand USA
• Graduate School USDA
• Graduate School USA

Private Regulatory Corporation

• Public Company Accounting Oversight Board
• Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
• Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board
• National Futures Association

Government entities created by acts but are independent or other entities

• American Institute in Taiwan
• COMSAT
• Cotton Incorporated
• Dairy Managment Inc.
• In Q Tel
• Protestant Episcopal Cathedral Foundation
  • Washington National Cathedral
• Financial Industry Regulatory Authority
• Gallaudet University
• Howard University
• National Consumer Cooperative Bank
• National Corporation for Housing Partnerships
• National Endowment for Democracy
• National Fish and Wildlife Foundation
• National Technical Institute for the Deaf
• Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation
• Pennsylvania Avenue Development Corporation
• The Financing Corporation
• United States Olympic Committee (also chartered)

Government Enterprises

• Farm Credit System Insurance Corporation
• Federal Agricultural Mortgage Corporation (Farmer Mac)
• Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac)
• Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae)
• AbilityOne
• Federal Home Loan Banks
• Farm Credit System

 

[tiredretired]

Jeez Kane, my eyes will be bleeding before I could get part way through all those hyper-links.

 

[Kane]

Jeez Kane, my eyes will be bleeding before I could get part way through all those hyper-links.

I know. But people like joec actually believe that we've run out of money and can't find a way to pay China or our own military. Must be the same crowd that re-elected Hussien in the first place. Despicable.

 

[FrancSevin]

I love it. "Congress has controL of the money." Which is frankly, a contradiction in terms.

When they have control of it and liberaly spend it everyone is happy. When they try to spend within our means, everyone is mad and blames them for creating a crisis.

The day we don't pay the interest is the default.

Not the day we short our soldiers checks
Not the day Social security goes out late or short
Not the day Congress doesn't get their paychecks (which is on the first day of their term BTW)

No it is the day we don't pay the interest. Can people not see the ludicrous irony of that. We have to borrow money to pay the interest. We are not talking refinacing here or paying down the principle. We have to use one credit card to pay the minimum payment on the other?

Utter madness and it must stop. So untill the Congress, and the White House, stops spending my grandchildren's paychecks, I say they can stop all of it, ALL OF IT!, right now and sort things out.

Hell to pay? You betcha. But hell now or hell later, what is the difference? Other than the bravery of those who have the power to do something who actually get some balls and do it.

Congress needs to take some advice from the Old man on Pawn Stars. "Chumley,,,,for God and country, please, get some work done!"

 

[FrancSevin]

I know. But people like joec actually believe that we've run out of money and can't find a way to pay China or our own military. Must be the same crowd that re-elected Hussien in the first place. Despicable.

I would suggest that if we cannot pay our creditors, we had best be sure we pay the military. Somebody might come a knocking wanting their collateral back.

Or a pound of flesh in it's stead.

Best we have well paid & happy soldiers to defend our citizens. Especially after the government disarms them.

 

[joec]

Blah, blah, blah. How about we cut spending so there will be no need to raise the debt ceiling. We keep our debt below the mandated limit by spending less.

Is that such an original concept? It is what I do when I manage my money. I spend less than I take it and put a bit away for a rainy day. If I find that is not happening, I find ways to cut expenses to make it happen if I cannot get more income to cover.

Why in fuck is that such an original concept for this dumb ass President to wrap his mind around?

I do believe the term is "Living within one's means"

The debt ceiling is to pay what we already bought it is that simple.

We are talking about two different things here the second one is the congress talking about shutting down the government not the debt ceiling. Perhaps I didn't make that clear for some of you. That will be brought on as a means of the second part of the fiscal cliff deal when the auto cuts kick in on the part of that which will come due at the same time as the debt ceiling so two problems getting overlaid here. Both with different problems.

 

[FrancSevin]

The debt ceiling is to pay what we already bought it is that simple.

We are talking about two different things here the second one is the congress talking about shutting down the government not the debt ceiling. Perhaps I didn't make that clear for some of you. That will be brought on as a means of the second part of the fiscal cliff deal when the auto cuts kick in on the part of that which will come due at the same time as the debt ceiling so two problems getting overlaid here. Both with different problems.

Actually they are the same problem. Whether they coincide or not. Congress has the purse strings. And the GOP promised to hold the line on spending. For that they got elected to the House.

The President wants to spend more money than they do. For that he got re-elected

The debate is about the struggle between these two forces.
It is corrupted by the partisan politics. It was also the intent of the founders that it work this way.

So, in 2009 when one party held all the marbles, we didn't get threats of shutting down the police and fire depts. But we did get massive spending.
Same thing happened in 2001 thru 2006 when the GOP held all the marbles. Size of government spending actually doubled.

It is why the government expands, even under so-called conservatives,when one party dominates both houses and the White house.
Whenever just one of those entities is under different party control, we hear threats of a shut down. And on the rare occasions that it actually happens, the police and fire depts still show up.

Amazing.

The sheeples continue to buy it though. Each and everytime the politicians strut their stuff, pull this theater, and pretend to be tough.

 

[joec]

Actually they are the same problem. Whether they coincide or not. Congress has the purse strings. And the GOP promised to hold the line on spending. For that they got elected to the House.

The President wants to spend more money than they do. For that he got re-elected

The debate is about the struggle between these two forces.
It is corrupted by the partisan politics. It was also the intent of the founders that it work this way.

So, in 2009 when one party held all the marbles, we didn't get threats of shutting down the police and fire depts. But we did get massive spending.
Same thing happened in 2001 thru 2006 when the GOP held all the marbles. Size of government spending actually doubled.

It is why the government expands, even under so-called conservatives,when one party dominates both houses and the White house.
Whenever just one of those entities is under different party control, we hear threats of a shut down. And on the rare occasions that it actually happens, the police and fire depts still show up.

Amazing.

The sheeples continue to buy it though. Each and everytime the politicians strut their stuff, pull this theater, and pretend to be tough.

Actually he said quite clearly that he will not negotiate on the debt limit again. Now he said he will put all spending on the table to negotiate on the fiscal cliff part coming up then also. Now the GOP is hold the debt ceiling up to get better negotiating they think on the fiscal cliff part still outstanding. Now they also threatened to shut down the government well if it was up to me I wouldn't negotiate either on the debt ceiling again as the only time it has happened since it was started in 1917 was 2011 and how did that work out for everyone.

But then that assumes that Obama means what he says which I think he does this time. Now I know you guys thinks he lies every time he says something but time will tell about the middle of next month. I'm prepared regardless of the outcome as I can live just fine even in a depression or without social security. Hope you guys can do the same if Congress is dumb enough to do what they are threatening to do..

 

[FrancSevin]

Actually he said quite clearly that he will not negotiate on the debt limit again. Now he said he will put all spending on the table to negotiate on the fiscal cliff part coming up then also. Now the GOP is hold the debt ceiling up to get better negotiating they think on the fiscal cliff part still outstanding. Now they also threatened to shut down the government well if it was up to me I wouldn't negotiate either on the debt ceiling again as the only time it has happened since it was started in 1917 was 2011 and how did that work out for everyone.

But then that assumes that Obama means what he says which I think he does this time. Now I know you guys thinks he lies every time he says something but time will tell about the middle of next month. I'm prepared regardless of the outcome as I can live just fine even in a depression or without social security. Hope you guys can do the same if Congress is dumb enough to do what they are threatening to do..

Saying he "will not negotiate" given the constitutional power he actiualy holds, is a negotiation tactic.

And I don't believe he lies everytime he says something. I read his books. He is attempting to accomplish everthing he said he would.
No, he is telling everyone the same thing they want to hear. It is just not always what he meant.

For instance when he said this in 2006;

The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit.
​

in 2013;
“Republicans in Congress have two choices here: They can act responsibly and pay America's bills or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy.”


It isa bit different than what he says these days.
Not exactly a lie but then not exactly a truth either.
Techniquely not exactly a flip flop by some standards.
But clearly not consistant or honest.


And then there are the out and out lies.
But, it is not everything he says.

 

[joec]

Saying he "will not negotiate" given the constitutional power he actiualy holds, is a negotiation tactic.

And I don't believe he lies everytime he says something. I read his books. He is attempting to accomplish everthing he said he would.
No, he is telling everyone the same thing they want to hear. It is just not always what he meant.

For instance when he said this in 2006;

The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit.
​

in 2013;
“Republicans in Congress have two choices here: They can act responsibly and pay America's bills or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy.”


It isa bit different than what he says these days.
Not exactly a lie but then not exactly a truth either.
Techniquely not exactly a flip flop by some standards.
But clearly not consistant or honest.


And then there are the out and out lies.
But, it is not everything he says.

You know what I find really funny is most if not all of you think I was a fan of his which no matter how many times I say it you don't accept it. Well folks if he fights this time he will make a believer out of me as his whole first term he let the Congress roll him on pretty much everything even some things he wanted and go they screwed it up turning it into something else. Now I never felt he was strong enough but hopefully he has once and for old decided to tell the minority to forget it as he has worked them into a really nice trap. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don't either way I'm looking forward to seeing the out come before I decide what to do later this year.

 

[FrancSevin]

You know what I find really funny is most if not all of you think I was a fan of his which no matter how many times I say it you don't accept it. Well folks if he fights this time he will make a believer out of me as his whole first term he let the Congress roll him on pretty much everything even some things he wanted and go they screwed it up turning it into something else. Now I never felt he was strong enough but hopefully he has once and for old decided to tell the minority to forget it as he has worked them into a really nice trap. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don't either way I'm looking forward to seeing the out come before I decide what to do later this year.

View attachment 65777

Joec, I never said that. Begging the question about your position here,,,,Why do you need to defend it?

And if he fights? Gimie a break. He has fought the GOP and the Conservatives since his first inauguration.

I believe he said something to them when, in 2009, they asked for a meeting
"We won, you lost. Get over it."

As my previous post clearly demostrates, he may not always be lying. But he is becoming well known for speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He is an excellent politician. But, neither skill is the sign of a good leader. That trap you describe, it may well embarass the GOP, but it being done at the expense of the nation.

An excellent politician may do that.
A good leader doesn't do that.

 

[joec]

Joec, I never said that. Begging the question about your position here,,,,Why do you need to defend it?

And if he fights? Gimie a break. He has fought the GOP and the Conservatives since his first inauguration.

I believe he said something to them when, in 2009, they asked for a meeting
"We won, you lost. Get over it."

Oh you are right he fought so hard he folded like a cheap suit on everything. The GOP got everything they wanted but just wouldn't take yes for an answer so they would then ask for more. At any have it your way until you see I called it like I have a number of things I've posted here turned out to happen when it finally came.

 

[XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq]

More taxes or the cops/firefighters/schools/hospitals/military will suffer!!!!

Same old "sky is falling" BS.

 

[FrancSevin]

Oh you are right he fought so hard he folded like a cheap suit on everything. The GOP got everything they wanted but just wouldn't take yes for an answer so they would then ask for more. At any have it your way until you see I called it like I have a number of things I've posted here turned out to happen when it finally came.

The GOP got what they wanted?

Hardly. Pray tell us when that happened.

You, along with many of your protaganists like me, have predicted Obama's victories several times yes. Making it obvious that your statement here contradicts itself.