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ADA

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
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We are in the final stages of planning our new indoor arena and boarding facility, and I have a question about the American With Disabilities Act. We are planning a second floor area with a lounge and viewing area for parents and family of students as well as students an boarders. At the moment, there is a staircase designed for the second floor. At what point (revenue $$, employee count, customer count, etc) do we have to be ADA compliant. We simply don't have the budget at this time to make the second floor wheelchair accessable.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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DaveNay said:
At what point (revenue $$, employee count, customer count, etc) do we have to be ADA compliant. We simply don't have the budget at this time to make the second floor wheelchair accessable.
IMMEDIATELY but NEVER.

I sat on the Town of Highland (Indiana) ADA Committee, our job was to inspect all the town structures, parks, public buildings, etc and then outline the changes to get them into ADA compliance.

As I also own a business I have to be reasonably versed on the laws.

The law states that you have to make "reasonable accomidation" it does not say you have to go bankrupt. It is reasonable to have a small ADA accessable viewing area on the main level. I don't know what you mean by "lounge area" but if you just mean a place to rest, then that could be as simple as bench or as elaborate as a full bar with liquor service. If you mean just a rest area, then that is something can can be accomplished in the same area as the main level viewing area, and it can very probably be something that occupies about 100 square feet.

ADA is not as hard as some people make it out to be. If you are ADA compliant for your employees, then you will likely end up ADA compliant for visitors too. Bear in mind that you may find that you can not make any reasonable accomodations in a horse arena to hire a blind or wheelchair bound individual, but you still need to make accomidations for some level of visitiors who may be blind or wheelchair bound. Deaf employees and visitors are pretty easy to accomidate.
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
A few years ago, there was a 60 minutes piece on people that sue business's for violations of the ADA. One person sued the company that repaired his wheelchair and provided him with service on his wheel chair lift. His complaint was that they didn't have marked handicapped parking spaces. He won his law suit because the business wasn't in compliance. They didn't say if he found another company to service his wheelchair after that..... I was hassled by a person that said that the isles in the store weren't wide enough. The state came in and measured. They said that 48" was sufficient and that just because he had an extra wide wheelchair that his request was unreasonable. Some will hassle you just because they can. Each state appears to have their own ideas as to how far to require a business to make changes. Another store in the shopping center was required to widen a rest room door by 3" to be in compliance. In the end, it was a $20,000 modification since they had to do plumbing changes etc. Junk....
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Junk you bring up some good points and the ADA laws have been interpreted, reinterpreted and misinterpreted so many times that unfortunately nobody has a final answer until you end up in court.

Generally there are a lot of easy accomodations that should be complied with right off the bat. Parking spaces, entry doors, aisle widths and bathrooms. When doing new construction, if the building is in the planning stages these things can be accomodated easily and with little to no added expense.

What gets tricky is when you remodel a building, at that point you have to bring everything up to the ADA standards.

There are also issues with PUBLIC/CUSTOMERS versus EMPLOYEES. The standards are different and that is considered reasonable.

You typically have to be far more accomodating to the public than you do to your own employees. For example, I have narrow aisles in my warehouse picking areas. No way to get a wheelchair down those aisle. But that is acceptable because of several reasons. First, the public is not allowed in those aisles. Second, the shelving is arranged such that you must be standing to perform the work. There is no way to accomodate a wheelchair bound individual and still reasonably do the job. That specific does not then allow me to ignore all wheelchair access. It just permits me to not have wheelchair access in that specific area, but my office areas need to allow for wheelchair use.

In Dave's case, and I don't know all the specifics, but generally it is reasonable to accomodate people by having a viewing area that is not on the upper level. Think of a bank, they often have a service counter for people who use wheel chairs, it is rarely staffed but if someone shows up in a wheelchair the tellers will accomodate that individual and then return to their normal station, so it does not require another employee, the employee just shifts position temporarily. Dave can provide a separate area and it does not even have to be left empty 100% of the time, he just needs to make it reasonably accessable when it is needed.
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
In many of the Walmart stores, I have noticed that they have a wheelchair hight register station for both employee and customer. I have never seen a wheelchair employed cashier in any Walmart stores, but I have seen many as greeters. Just last week, I was told by a greeter that she was only allowed to greet me and say good by. Conversation with customers was forbidden. Junk.......
 

thcri

New member
Junkman said:
Just last week, I was told by a greeter that she was only allowed to greet me and say good by. Conversation with customers was forbidden. Junk.......

I have had no problem striking up conversations with them. We talk about the weather and all kinds of stuff. But then I am just one likeable guy by most:yum: :yum:

Junk I am sure you just scared the living daylights out of her. I think it was pretty smart of her to come up with the excuse she did. I think this world needs more fast thinking people like her :yum:
 
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Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
Just because she was middle aged...... between 20 & 30, and I told her that the best things in life are free, like me on Saturday night, why should that scare her. She thanked me and on the way out, she shook my hand. When she let go, stuck to my palm was a piece of paper with her telephone number on it. We went out last evening and had a great time. Told the wife that I was out with a friend just fooling around. She never caught on...... Junk...:hide:
 

thcri

New member
Junkman said:
Just because she was middle aged...... between 20 & 30, and I told her that the best things in life are free, like me on Saturday night, why should that scare her. She thanked me and on the way out, she shook my hand. When she let go, stuck to my palm was a piece of paper with her telephone number on it. We went out last evening and had a great time. Told the wife that I was out with a friend just fooling around. She never caught on...... Junk...:hide:


Don't you wish :yum: :yum: :yum: :yum:
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
The issues related with the ADA have nixed probably 70-80% of our viable options for the bunker as there are only stairs. :( :( :(
 

Grooming Snow

New member
In many of the Walmart stores, I have noticed that they have a wheelchair hight register station for both employee and customer. I have never seen a wheelchair employed cashier in any Walmart stores
We have a lady at are local WalMart that is a cashier that is in a wheel chair

The biggest problems for the people that are handicapped is bath rooms & doorways :pat:
If all people were to have someone in their family , that has handicapped ,then we all would look also to make are homes better for them.
My sister that has MS, and would love to go to visit but most homes are not set up for her to get in and out of . If your second floor area will have a lounge and viewing area for parents and Grand parents of family of students . Please make so all can be together :confused: no fun sitting down on the bottom when every one is on the 2 floor talking and having a good time , How would you feel if you were the one that can't be with friends & family . Because in the blink of an eye you to could be in the same place.

Just one other thing , if you put in a new door your house make it no less then 36" . I did and now one of my best friend can come and visit:tiphat:
 

thcri

New member
Grooming Snow said:
Just one other thing , if you put in a new door your house make it no less then 36" . I did and now one of my best friend can come and visit:tiphat:


We built our whole house so it is handicap accessible. We didn't do the sinks and stuff but all 5 entrances are on ground level so a wheel chair can come right in. It was a bit tough to do but we did it thinking someday one of our parents could end up staying at our place.

murph
 

Grooming Snow

New member
:applause: We are not getting any younger . and you never know when you may be handicapped even for a short time:eek: It's hell when you may need to go Nursing home , becauce you can't get to the bath room or bed room of your own home. Smart move on your part, to make your whole house so it is handicap accessible.:thumb:
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
if you put in a new door your house make it no less then 36"
:applause:

Very good idea that needs to be done if possible on all new or remodel jobs.

My father is now 93 and lives in his own home alone. Two and half years ago he broke his hip. He now uses a walker and wheel chair at home. I have had to retrofit bath, stairs, etc, and other items for him to be able to take care of himself which he does today with minimum assistance. The narrow width doorways and using a wheelchair is one major problem area to try to deal with. Plan ahead when remodeling or building for the possibility as it is much easier.:confused2:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
When my father was alive we all thought he did it right when his last home was being built. All the doorways were wide, etc. But there was one problem. It was a 90-degree corner in a hallway. It was possible to get a wheelchair around it IF and ONLY IF the legs were down, but not if they were extended. Further, there was no chance of getting a gurnery around the corner. We learned all that stuff the hard way.

So make sure to have wide doors, but also make sure to have a way to get around sharp corners.
 
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