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542 Cab Forward Restoration

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
wonderful, 10 lbs is very generous, happy to help you out...

true idaho baking potatoes are the best in the world and really hard to find on the left coast....

I will bring the dust cap and pontoon end flange to the gathering of old grousers (GOOG21) at SVS21
 
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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Looking for some knowledge on fuel tank sending units. The 542CF has two tanks, both fuel level sending units are shot. Does anyone know what these come out of, I cannot find any markings on them.

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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Also in need of one door sliding window "handle" like the one shown. Does anyone know a source for this bent material, or better yet does anyone have one from an old tucker they would be willing to sell?

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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I need a sanity check on something. First the background: I am going to either replace with new or have the original leaf springs rebuilt. After close inspection (didn't take to close of inspection) and sound advise from PP it is best to just replace them, don't want one breaking in half 15 miles out in the back country. Plus this cat was well abused and the springs show damage. The original springs have 6 leafs per assembly on the front set and 5 leafs per assembly on the rear set.

So tomorrow I am stopping in Boise, as I pass through on my next adventure, and talking to the guys at Boise Spring Works. I wanted to have some sprung load information the leafs will support so they know what I am needing. The information from the 542CF tag indicates a curb weight of 5250 lbs, max load of 1800 lbs, and gross weight of 7050 lbs. So I did some estimating and decided the sprung weight of the cat would be about 5300 lb, from this I then estimated the front sprung weight would be 3200 lbs (1800 lb/leaf assembly) and the estimated rear sprung weight would be 2100 lb (1050 lb/leaf assembly). Does this sound reasonable for total and front / rear loadings.

Any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Question for the hydraulics experts out there.

I am rebuilding my Vickers VTM27 power steering pump, the original pump had used external filter, but the pump has the option to use an internal filter in the reservoir (see schematic below). The attached photo shows the original filter housing on the inlet to the reservoir. I have purchased a pump reservoir filter and was going to fabricate the retainer, install the spring, and remove the return line baffle as shown on the second photo/diagram.

Does anyone see a problem with using the in-reservoir filter as opposed to the in-line filter, I would like to remove the external filter to clean up the engine bay and have less clutter. Plus I have no idea what filter element to use for the in-line filter, there are no markings on the filter element or the filter body/housing.

The only reasons I have come up with in my simple mind for them installing the external filter and using a Victor supplied filter-less pump (optional) was to make filter changes easier and possibly to use a more common filter element. Not sure, just my reasoning/guessing, which could be flawed. The only other thing I could think of was since the pump is a 6 gpm (maximum flowing option pump for this model) maybe the pump can out flow the filter causing cavitation or starving the pump for oil???

Any ideas out there?

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Filter Assembly.jpg
 

Track Addict

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
The 68 442 had a filter element in the tank that works fine until the pump veins broke. New pump and new filter all is well.

My 73 has this tank on the pump but still has a filter on the firewall.

53 has no filter at all.

I like the cleaner reservoir design if not putting a spin on. If everything is new and clean just leave instructions for the grandkids to replace 40 years or so!
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
The 68 442 had a filter element in the tank that works fine until the pump veins broke. New pump and new filter all is well.

My 73 has this tank on the pump but still has a filter on the firewall.

53 has no filter at all.

I like the cleaner reservoir design if not putting a spin on. If everything is new and clean just leave instructions for the grandkids to replace 40 years or so!
Thank you for the information, I think I will install the filter in the reservoir and see how that goes, unless someone else provides some insight why I shouldn't.
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Here is the carburetor rebuild, complete and ready to install. Cleaned everything, re-plated many parts, soda blasted, new rebuild kit, new float, required one ebay donor carb for a few screws and the air filter mount. Carburetor is a Holley 1920 one barrel.

Before:

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After: Don't look to close, yes that is the kitchen table I did this reassembly at. My wife was at work, so all is good.
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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
The distributor has also been rebuilt. Luckily the vacuum advance is still good, this is one part I was not able to find for replacement. So instead I partially disassembled, cleaned, pored some rubber rejuvinator in both sides, tested it, and all looks good now. This required blasting, both some soda and some grit, cleaned, painted, plated, replaced points, condenser, rotor, cap, lubricated, ready to install. I also found a low profile air filter from Mr. Gasket, I am waiting on an extension nut I need to mount it to the bracket, then it will be done and ready to install.

Distributor is a Prestolite IAT 4416. Point gap 0.020"

Before:

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After:

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Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
external filter provides for more fluid for the system, and it is a larger filter and might do a better job, I have also seen many set ups with the external filters with a pressure gauge as part on the system, and it is also easier to change the filter, IMHO, and what do I know, would go with the external filter...
 
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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Whiper motors are ready to install. The cat only had one whiper motor (driver side) when I got it, the second one (passenger side) was long gone. I was able to fine one NOS whiper motor and purchased it, opened it up and put new grease in the gearbox and oiled the motor bearings, then placed the oscillating arm in the gearbox to 120 degree swing, the same as the other unit. The original whiper unit worked well but the output shaft end was torn up. I was able to salvage a better output shaft from one of the two whiper units that came with the 1969 542 frame I purchased a couple years ago. Also cleaned up the gearbox and put new grease in it, as well as oiled the motor bearings and cleaned up the motor commutator a bit. After all this got the nuts, washers, and gaskets ready that hold the unit to the body. Then covered all vent holes and soda blasted both, primed, and painted. Plus bought new universal wiper arms and blades.

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Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
GMoose,

I've said this before, but for me the Gold Standard of snowcat restorations was established by Weatherby on his ex-USAF Thiokol 601. Sadly, he doesn't show up on the forum much anymore, but I think he would be every bit as impressed with your workmanship, no, make that craftsmanship, as I am.
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
GMoose,

I've said this before, but for me the Gold Standard of snowcat restorations was established by Weatherby on his ex-USAF Thiokol 601. Sadly, he doesn't show up on the forum much anymore, but I think he would be every bit as impressed with your workmanship, no, make that craftsmanship, as I am.
Well thanks. The engine rebuild should be coming soon, hope to get the pre work done this coming week. Have all but two small seals to complete the rebuild. Seals are being fabricated by my machinist friend.
 

Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
Whiper motors are ready to install. The cat only had one whiper motor (driver side) when I got it, the second one (passenger side) was long gone. I was able to fine one NOS whiper motor and purchased it, opened it up and put new grease in the gearbox and oiled the motor bearings, then placed the oscillating arm in the gearbox to 120 degree swing, the same as the other unit. The original whiper unit worked well but the output shaft end was torn up. I was able to salvage a better output shaft from one of the two whiper units that came with the 1969 542 frame I purchased a couple years ago. Also cleaned up the gearbox and put new grease in it, as well as oiled the motor bearings and cleaned up the motor commutator a bit. After all this got the nuts, washers, and gaskets ready that hold the unit to the body. Then covered all vent holes and soda blasted both, primed, and painted. Plus bought new universal wiper arms and blades.

View attachment 136784View attachment 136785View attachment 136786View attachment 136787View attachment 136788
I would like to know if you are putting the yellow stencil markings back on, you know OEM
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Starting the engine rebuild. Should be all the parts here to complete the task. Head has been rebuilt already, block bored .010 over, rods worked over, crank checked out, flywheel ground, new ring gear installed, everything cleaned up and ready to roll. There will be some painting and plating along the way. Will take some time, but will probably have it in a couple weeks (lots of irons in the fire). I will post some progress photos as I go.

One thing I did was grind out some material from inside the bell housing. This engine requires you to pull the crankshaft out to be able to remove the flywheel. I don't like this, so I ground out a small amount of material inside the bell housing to allow the flywheel and bell housing to be installed later after the engine is rebuilt. This could help in the future if the flywheel ever needs ground or replaced.

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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I need to apologize for not keeping this thread updated. Much work has been completed over the summer and I am going to try any get this updated now. It may be a little random as I have worked on many different parts of the cat, please bear with me. Gmoose
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
The power steering pump was rebuilt, to my surprise all of the parts I needed to rebuild it were available. I used a new seal/gasket kit, new bearing, new rotor, new vanes, new ring, and new pressure plate. I went with an internal filter in place of the original external filter, this required the fabrication of a filter retainer and the addition of a compression spring (see parts diagram below). Also the body had some scoring, so I had my machinist take .004" off the face and it cleaned up great.

Pre-disassembly, notice the external filter (cylinder with the two hex ends):

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Just the casting numbers in case anyone gives a #$%^:

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Disassembled:

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Scored Body face:

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Body face scoring machined away:

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All ready for assembly (with the new internal filter assembly parts, also did not install the return line baffle which is a component only used on pumps using the external filter):

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Parts diagram, again just in case someone gives a $%^&:

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Ta da, all assembled and painted, isn't she beautiful (notice the two differentials in the background, just got the bearings for rebuilding, more work yet to come):

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GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Engine rebuild status: Complete, however I have very few pictures, I will try and get the engine out tomorrow and get some pictures to post of the completed assembly.

This engine rebuild was beyond a night mare, plus beyond expensive. Anyone who has one of these Tornado 230 Jeep/Keiser engines, unless you want to stay original like I did, I would recommend repowering with something else if you are in need of a rebuild.

Stop reading here unless you really are bored or care about some of the issues I had and the recovery from them.

The issues:

The rod bearings are what I will call left and right, 1, 3, 5 has tab on one side 2, 4, 6 has tab on opposite side. I had five rods in, no problems, went to install sixth rod and found the bearing in the box had been switched and I had a left bearing where I needed a right bearing (box was a right bearing box). My engine machinist had ordered these bearings a couple years ago, we had no luck finding the correct bearing. I purchased the bearing for the flathead engine, which is the bearing they use now, however they are wider and I just didn't like how they fit on the crank. So, my machinist friend made a jig to place the tab on the bearing in the correct position and remove the incorrect tab by compressing by tightening the bolts on the rod, all measured good and bearing went in great. Oh, also had to drill a new oil hole in the bearing.

Rod nuts, these are one time use type (yield at torque). Figured this out after I had already started build, so had to order nuts, more time wasted. Got new nuts (same ones they use on the flat head six engine). Torqued to 40 ft-lbs in increments, this went great, then when I went to the max torque of 45 ft-lbs they yielded wayyyyy more than I was comfortable with, so I found some better new nuts which worked well, but more time wasted.

Now the worst issue, there are two aluminum filler blocks between the block and the pan at the front and rear of the engine. The aluminum used is of a very soft alloy (read - threaded holes strip very easily). So, this engine is known for it's oil leaking and there are specific assembly sealing products and uses they recommend. So I had to go find these products and used them liberally. The oil pan was well sealed to the filler blocks and the block itself. Well now I go to install the front plate which has four bolts which thread into the front filler block (yes I used a torque wrench to verify the correct torque, just a few inch-lbs (like 12 or 15). Well two of the holes stripped out, it appears that when this engine had been worked on in the past someone over torqued these bolts and had already yielded the material. So what do you do, I did not want to tear the oil pan back off so I thought, thread insert. Decided to install thread insert in all four holes, two of which are blind and two of which are open to the internals of the oil pan. Installed all 4 worked great, had a technique where I used grease in the hole for the open holes and vacuumed it out every little bit of drilling and tapping to keep the aluminum chips from getting into the oil pan, worked great. Then after I installed the insert I used dental floss tied to the insert tang to retrieve it from going into the pan when it was broken off, worked great. Then I used to long of bolt and the end hit the bolt head of the bolts holding the filler block to the block, this caused one of the bolt holes that had the thread insert to strip the insert out. %^&* what to do now, well there was room to upsize to the next bolt size so I installed the next size insert, worked great, until I went to break the tang off, guess where it went after the floss came off, into the oil pan. Oh ya, these are stainless inserts, no magnet can retrieve that small piece of metal that could destroy an engine in a heart beat. Well you guessed it I had to tear the oil pan off, clean up all the gasket surfaces, buy new gaskets, and start over. Found the tang sitting in the oil pan so that made me feel good that I did retrieve it. I have a spare parts engine so I used the front filler block from it, but before installing it I installed four new thread inserts, just to be safe, on the bench. I then cut the bolts to the correct length and reassembled, worked great, but this process took weeks to recover from, some time was waiting for parts, other was getting over the frustration.

Another thing I did prior to rebuilding the engine was I ground some relief into the bell housing. This engine requires the flywheel to be installed onto the crank prior to installing the crank, and this requires the bell housing to be installed on the block before installing the crank. I did not like this concept so I was able to grind a small relief around the bell housing so the flywheel (and bell housing) could be installed after the crank was installed. This also allows removing the flywheel from the engine without disassembling the engine (to drop the crank down).

Another thing, these engines had the front pulley replaced with an after market pulley with NO timing marks. Someone had drilled a hole at I believe it was 15 degrees as the timing mark, however it was very crude. I have an engine from a car and it had the original pulley, my machinist was able to bolt the two pulleys together and cut properly indexed timing marks into the edge of the pulley.

One other thing to keep in mind if you ever work on one of these engines. I had to use the crank from my spare engine, it was a 62 version and the engine is a 65 version, well the keyway for the front pulley on the 62 version is further inboard, so I do not have full key engagement on the pulley, as I did with the original crank. However there is plenty of key engaged in the pulley. Just a FYI.

Pre assembly, parts ready:

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Modified bearing:

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Jig used for creating new tab and repositioning original tab:

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Start of assembly number one:

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The four lowest bolt in this photo are the ones that thread into the aluminum front fill block:

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Years ago I rebuilt one of these engines.......Yesssssssssssssssssss..I feel your pain..
Looks like you pretty much have it whipped now......
 
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