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1975 Snow-Master on craigslist

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
From how your describing your machine I don't think there is anywhere I won't be able to take one of these around here. Can't wait to find out.

Have you ever got yours stuck?
the one mod you may want to look at check out my new bumber snow cat sledong post its 2x2 3/16 square tube replacing the old bumper affords much more protection for thr front end which is pretty soft than the factory bumper did with min weight gain just a little insurance for the front axle housings if things get out of control.
 

hendog

New member
I do have some info on the getting stuck thing, I bought my ST from a club in BC and they accidently slipped off a ridge while running up the mountain, whet into 12+ feet of snow/ untracked powder, the ST vanished, they all thought it went down the whole mountain. Then they saw the snow moving like a gopher under the snow, they radioed back and forth and he drove right out, NO BS now thats a snow cat!!! STs rule!!!!

Wish I saw a pic of that!!

The only slight trouble I have is climbing my logging road in a very steep section with 5feet of powder I sometimes need to cut back and forth or back down and restart but that the most issue I have had, They really do climb!
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
I talked to the owner of this Snow Master tonight. He's still pretty firm at 12K but will deliver it pretty much anywhere in the west for that amount, which seems somewhat reasonable when considering transportation costs. He also let me know that he'll drop the price $500 for anyone willing to come pick it up.

The previous owner had installed the bench seat, which needs to be climbed over in order to drive it. The standard seating configuration is still present behind the bench. Tires have been foam filled.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this one? It's definitely a bit unique in its configuration. Is the yellowish looking tank to the left of the driver an auxiliary heater?
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
chatting with lyndon he thinks that is the snow master my dad haad bought out of the auction in fairbanks in the 80'sfunny he sold it for 15 k back than and now they want 12 k for it holding its value pretty good.
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
I'm also curious if anyone knows what makes the Snow Master so much heavier than a Snow Trac. The weight difference can't simply be accounted for by track size/length.


I talked to the owner of this Snow Master tonight. He's still pretty firm at 12K but will deliver it pretty much anywhere in the west for that amount, which seems somewhat reasonable when considering transportation costs. He also let me know that he'll drop the price $500 for anyone willing to come pick it up.

The previous owner had installed the bench seat, which needs to be climbed over in order to drive it. The standard seating configuration is still present behind the bench. Tires have been foam filled.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this one? It's definitely a bit unique in its configuration. Is the yellowish looking tank to the left of the driver an auxiliary heater?
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
not ever taking one apart i would guess its the frame work to accomadate the longer wider track that extra pound here and there adds up quick
 

JSX

New member
I'm also curious if anyone knows what makes the Snow Master so much heavier than a Snow Trac. The weight difference can't simply be accounted for by track size/length.

The track difference is probably more than you would think. There are 4 additional belts, the tracks are approx 3' longer for a total of approx 10 extra grousers per side, and the added length of every third grouser. The grousers themselves are different as well, more parts built up for the Track-Masters.

Like DDS said, the frame is wider, also the front fenders are wider with additional steel reinforcement. The front bumper is wider.

The front drive gears are also a little larger, to gear it down.
 

leadvillerpm

New member
I redid the calculation for you on that cut track snow master. If you say that cutting the outer bands off the track removes half of the extra weight of the snow master (200lb) you still get a psi calculation of .51 psi. That is still about the same as a snow trac at .5 psi and I believe that 200lb is generous when it comes to how much weight is really removed by cutting the track.

Another thing you may want to think about is my st4 seems to top out at around 19mph here in Leadville. This may be do to the decreased hp at altitude. Most people with an st4 at sea level clam to get them up to 25mph.

Now a snow master at sea level is said to go around 13mph. It may or may not get to those speeds at this elevation. I would guess that it would do to the lower gearing, but I haven't talked with anyone who has driven one at this kind of elevation.

Ryan
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
Ryan,

How difficult would it be to modify the transmission so that it would be geared more akin to that of an st4? If that could be accomplished it seems like you would have a pretty nice compromise between the narrower width for this area's tighter roads/trails and the somewhat longer tracks with more aggressive grousers for the deep stuff up high.

Ben

I redid the calculation for you on that cut track snow master. If you say that cutting the outer bands off the track removes half of the extra weight of the snow master (200lb) you still get a psi calculation of .51 psi. That is still about the same as a snow trac at .5 psi and I believe that 200lb is generous when it comes to how much weight is really removed by cutting the track.

Another thing you may want to think about is my st4 seems to top out at around 19mph here in Leadville. This may be do to the decreased hp at altitude. Most people with an st4 at sea level clam to get them up to 25mph.

Now a snow master at sea level is said to go around 13mph. It may or may not get to those speeds at this elevation. I would guess that it would do to the lower gearing, but I haven't talked with anyone who has driven one at this kind of elevation.

Ryan
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
i think it was lyndon who played with a snow master by changing the gearing and it didn't really work out even with a hopped up 1600 those herring bone grousers will suck up the horsepower just like a paddle track on a snowmachine i'm thinking that with a higher gear set lyndon said 100 hp would be about the min.for that machine keep in mind those things arn't intended to drive on roads and even 10 mph can be a rolercoaster rie when going overland if trail witth is a concern i wouln't hesitate to buy that one should serve you fine also teladawg now has his st-4 up for sale and his has the old 2 band track that is almost impossoble to walk out of.i might also add his is a cherry unit and ready to run.
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
Unfortunately, it appears his rig has already sold. I called him last night and someone else had already dropped a check in the mail for a downpayment.

The situation that I'm working with is that I have a forest service access road at the top of my neighborhood, which opens up into some nice high alpine with fairly deep snow. I'd be able to drive the Snow Master out of my driveway and stay on snow covered roads the entire time so running over bare ground is not a concern.

Lyndon, care to chime in on the subject?
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
Might also be worth noting that there should only be half the herringbone grousers on this machine as a typical Snow Master, which may help out in terms of not eating up as much horsepower.

Edit: Just realized this probably isn't the case. I found this pic of a Snow Master on Wikipedia, which makes it seem as though only the inner/outer belting may have been removed and what remains is the middle two? Outer belts seem like they were only joined at every 3rd or 4th grouser.

Snow-Master-ST4B.jpg
 
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Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the gearing is in the trans axle if i'm not mistaken so i don't know how feasable it will be to change it making your engine to where it will stand up to higher rpm's will give you more top end but will also shorten engine life 1 run mine around 5 k at cruse and ep to 5500 for short bursts any where over 4500 the heater works good but i under stand the snow trac motors had a governer in the distributor that started to shut down the ignition around 4k i've talked withseveral people who have told me that 5k on a factory engine is ok.
 

JSX

New member
Actually, the gearing is changed at the chain drive after the transaxle. The ST4B has a larger front gear than the ST4.
 

JSX

New member
Might also be worth noting that there should only be half the herringbone grousers on this machine as a typical Snow Master, which may help out in terms of not eating up as much horsepower.

Edit: Just realized this probably isn't the case. I found this pic of a Snow Master on Wikipedia, which makes it seem as though only the inner/outer belting may have been removed and what remains is the middle two? Outer belts seem like they were only joined at every 3rd or 4th grouser.

Snow-Master-ST4B.jpg

Right, the inner/outer belts are gone and only every 3rd grouser is full width, usually they end up getting cut instead of trying to find more short ones to replace them.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
Actually, the gearing is changed at the chain drive after the transaxle. The ST4B has a larger front gear than the ST4.
well it may be all snow tracs than have the rare extra low gear set i was talking to a custom trans guy when looking at getting a new trans for what is now my parts machine and he had told me that some of the snow tracs had a lower than normal gear set in them which made that transmission highly coveted by dune buggy builders. perhaps its all the st transmissions i'm not an expert on the transmissions as i have never had to go inside one
 

Lyndon

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
The Big Sprockets in the engine compartment came in 36, 38, and 42 tooth combinations. The Small chain sprockets on the Variator came in 11, 12, and 15 tooth combinations. Standard oin a Snow Trac is 12's and 38's. Standard on a Trac Master or Snow Master is 11's & 42's. The difference is roughly 3:1 versus 4:1. This also directly correlates to why Snow Trac's usually have 3 times the miles as hours, and the "Masters" have closer to a 2 times per hour ratio. The machine I tried with the high ratio was lacking in torque at the high end. Just too much track. I had to drop back to lower ratios. It was a Trac Master with at 1776 CC, roughly 90 HP engine. In all one can get 9 possible combinations out of the 3 & 3 gear offering. It is also possible to get a variety of different gearing out of the Transaxels. ST4's were normally shipped with VW Bus Transaxels which have lower gearing than Bug Transaxels. Top speed according to the factory literature in a "Master" is 13.5 MPH, 22 in a Snow Trac. I was able to get over 25 on my 1963 Snow Trac that had the original 36/40 HP 1192 CC engine, on an ice covered road, and a good 30+ MPH out of a Snow Trac with a 1600, 53 HP Motor.
 

mtnguyco1981

New member
Lyndon,

Any thoughts on how the higher ratio would affect the Snow Master with the narrower tracks? Even though they are narrower than stock, do you think this would still be too much track to run a higher ratio when considering the herringbone grousers?

My house sits at 10,200 feet and I'd be driving to elevations in the neighborhood of 13K. This high up it seems somewhat doubtful that I'd be able to get the Snow Master up to 13+ miles an hour in its "stock" configuration with the narrower tracks. I'm not necessarily looking for it to do ST4 speeds, but if I could get it into the neighborhood of 16-18 mph that would be nice.

Ben
 
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