1962 spryte 201

[warwagon41]

1962 Spryte 201
It’s been modified somewhat.
Has a 1969 250 cid ford and a C4 auto trans.

Does anyone have any advice on the auto transmission modification?
I read that 1st and 3rd can be weak in the OC4 , but I wonder if there’s any problems to consider with using the automatic as a reverser in 1-4 on the trans axle?
Is it best to just leave it in drive and auto shift or shift it manually ?

Thanks

 

[Cidertom]

I've not run a snowcat with an automatic, but I have had other equipment that has it. I use auto shift unless it starts 'hunting' Shifting constantly then I will lock it into gear.

 

[warwagon41]

Thanks Cidertom !

I have only driven it around the yard so far and everything seems to work ok .
But I'm not familiar at all with ford automatics or snow cats.
I have been around many 727 Chrysler autos.
I need to try and contact the previous owner that did the conversion if I can.
There's a pile of documentation and receipts dating back to 1989 but not much from the last owner.

 

[warwagon41]

Does anyone know of a Spryte 201 registry ?
Any idea how many where produced ?
It seems like all the ones I've seen online are 62-63 model year , was it just a two year run ?

 

[redsqwrl]

1962 Spryte 201
It’s been modified somewhat.
Has a 1969 250 cid ford and a C4 auto trans.
View attachment 202243View attachment 202243View attachment 202244View attachment 202245View attachment 202246View attachment 202247View attachment 202248
Does anyone have any advice on the auto transmission modification?
I read that 1st and 3rd can be weak in the OC4 , but I wonder if there’s any problems to consider with using the automatic as a reverser in 1-4 on the trans axle?
Is it best to just leave it in drive and auto shift or shift it manually ?

Thanks

I have a couple bombardier sv's that have the c4 ford transmissions they work great and are very gentle in the torque converter lock up department. If the donor was a mustang i would think you would feel it. The header and hei distributor speak of a motor head. 201's are quite fast. And really take well to year round use.
3 speeds in reverse will be really cool

 

[warwagon41]

Thanks !
The fellow we got it from said the engine and trans did come from a mustang but I haven't confirmed that.
The data tag on the block says its a 250cid built in June of 69 and also has a tag reading the bore is .040 , crank and mains are .010.
Runs very well and has a nice firm shift in the limited driving I have done with it.
Does seem to run a bit warm though , I'm guessing they had an issue before since they install dual electric pusher fans.
Is that a common issue on 201's ?

 

[redsqwrl]

Power seekers look to get rid of engine drag they take out the direct drive fan and transfer the drain/load to the alternator when they put in electric fans.

Ive never seen a healthy straight six ford engine get warm unless someone made *improvements * to it.

Usually a shop couldnt get the industrial based accessory drives to fit on the automotive engine. Automotive based engines have hwy speeds on their side. Generators and ag equipped machines need substantial fans. Electric fan windings get warm in use. When temps of winding goes up, so does their resistance. The result is less work and more current draw in the fan windings.

 

[warwagon41]

It has a very cheesy looking chrome flex fan on it , I suspect it doesn't move enough air.
And the lack of a shroud probably doesn't help either.
I have a much more aggressive flex fan I will try first.
The dual electric fans aren't hooked up currently.
They have it setup for them to hook directly to the battery with a variable switch in line.
I will be adding relays and better wiring for those if they stay.
Also , non of the lights have any kind of relay ...... every thing is just wired directly to the old style fuse block.
I will defiantly run relay harnesses for the lights as well.
It does have a GM one wire alternator already , its only 64 amp though .
I have a 100 amp on the way from summit.

 

[warwagon41]

I was able to talk to two more previous owners of my cat.
Super cool guys, and a wealth of knowledge on this particular little 201.
Both mentioned over heating issues, both with the stock engine and the newly rebuilt 250.
Both said it was pretty much cured by leaving the hood up.
I don’t know a lot about the 201’s but it seems they were sort of marketed as an all season vehicle.
I started wondering why you would try to draw air through the rear facing grill and force it into an engine compartment .
The only place it can go is underneath, and if you are traveling forward it would seem it would be trying to push it back out the rear of the machine .
I’m wondering if I can flip the fan around so it pushes the air through the radiator and out the grill ?
I’ve noticed that seems to be how all of our equipment is setup.
One concern I have is it would change the direction of thrust on the water pump bushing or bearings , but I don’t know if that’s a problem …
Anyone have any insight on flipping the fan ?

 

[Cidertom]

One of the issues you may have is restricted output. If the outflow is restricted the fan efficiency is really reduced. The hood up is a huge clue. This is a pretty common problem with snowcats. Traditional cooling airflow says you need a larger free air outlet than the forced air inlet. This is almost unheard of in a cat. If you were to reverse the fan you would be trying to "suck" air through that same restriction. An illustration: Which is easier trying to suck water through a straw or blow it? The suck is limited by the atmospheric air pressure. The blow is limited by the force applied. I have worked on equipment that has pusher fans, the majority have unrestricted air on the inlet side.

look at the air flow and check to see if you can reduce the back pressure : enlarge openings? re-route lines to make the flow less turbulent ? remove panels that obstruct? A more aggressive fan will blow harder and may help cooling but at a loss of net HP. I helped a snowcat owner once that changed to a huge aggressive an and still had problems. I put a pressure gauge in a bolt hole in the cowling and got between 3-5 PSI (poor mans supercharger?) Changing the solid lower panels to expanded mesh cured the issue.

 

[redsqwrl]

Hold your hand in front of you.
Tip your hand
Move it clockwise
Note which way the air is moving
(In my case to my right)
Turn around 180°
Do it again.


You need a different fan.

Ill be at my 201 later this week
I can check my youtube videos i have a couple videos of it running while i was setting the valves. I somehow think my cat blows out. I had aur conditioning on my bomb rig

 

[warwagon41]

Thank you guys for your input !
I might try looking for a fan with reverse blades, I know the made them for older tractors.
Our old Dozers had reversible blades , in the winter we would flip them around so it would blow back and help keep us warm .
I’m also wondering about some venting towards the cab side of the hood , similar to what the jeep guys add .
I run a 980 cat every day and it pushes air out the rear and draws it in from the side panels , I’m wondering if I could do something similar with a different fan and some venting?

 

[redsqwrl]

I found reverse fan blades at summit. for a 454 chev powered snow coach project.

i cant tell which way it is blowing..... but I run the snot out of this cat and it never gets hot. the cab is AR abrasive resistant or armor plated and double walled with some sort of concrete between the walls. It had robotic type arms sticking out the front. was air tight and had Air conditioning. The only way in is through a large port hole on the top which latched from the out side. Creepy bizarre.

 

[redsqwrl]

Random thought.......


after reading toms post and reviewing your photos.... I think he is spot on. your battery and distributor are doing a stellar job of keeping the air around the radiator. regardless of which way it is going. I use christmas tinsel to confirm air flow tape multiple pieces all about your rig and you will have a visual of what your air is doing.

$.02

 

[Cidertom]

I too reviewed your photos. Is there ANY outflow to speak of in that engine compartment? The angled pieces on the hood might be candidates for some louvers. Or an air scoop like used on some hoods pointed backwards mounted on your hood near the cab. Depends on how rain tight you need the hood to be.

 

[warwagon41]

I found reverse fan blades at summit. for a 454 chev powered snow coach project.

i cant tell which way it is blowing..... but I run the snot out of this cat and it never gets hot. the cab is AR abrasive resistant or armor plated and double walled with some sort of concrete between the walls. It had robotic type arms sticking out the front. was air tight and had Air conditioning. The only way in is through a large port hole on the top which latched from the out side. Creepy bizarre.

Wow !
That cat sounds super interesting , do you have any pictures up of it ?
I wonder what in the world they were doing with it, or planning to do with it
Do you think they made some kind of bomb disposal unit out of it ?!

I can’t see why mine would run hot , the radiator is huge and in great condition.
Water flow seems very good.
it’s got to be just like you guys are saying and it’s just not passing the air through the engine bay.
I did find a nice reverse rotation universal flex fan at summit.

 

[redsqwrl]

I bought it sight unseen.

On the way there i asked if it was easy to back up too. He asked what kind of trailer. I said standard car trailer... he said are you sure? This thing weighs 10.5k. I was dismissive as thats twice what it should weigh.... it was a slow ride home.

It just dawned on me that the automatic is likely adding some heat to your process....

 

[warwagon41]

I too reviewed your photos. Is there ANY outflow to speak of in that engine compartment? The angled pieces on the hood might be candidates for some louvers. Or an air scoop like used on some hoods pointed backwards mounted on your hood near the cab. Depends on how rain tight you need the hood to be.

The only place for the air to go once it comes in the engine bay is down towards the ground.
That’s another reason I think it would help if I could be exhausting it out the grill rather than trying to force it forward and down.
I was thinking the same thing, louvered panels on each side of the hood towards the cab and a scoop facing the back of the cab.
I really don’t like the idea of cutting on the hood , I wish I had a spare.
I would like keep water intrusion to a minimum and it would be nice to be able to open and close them for warm up and weather protection.
Similar to the fresh air hoods on some of the the old muscle cars.
That all sounds like a pretty tall order though.

 

[warwagon41]

That’s one heck of a weight gain !!!
If yours can handle that much extra weight, I should never have to worry about over loading mine