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KRISTI KT2A “Rescue” of Sorts

Rover’n

Active member
New to this forum as an active member after lurking for quite a while.

As a Kristi KT3 owner, I am always on the lookout for these little units here in Montana. Found this junked KT2A couple years ago and finally made a deal w/ the owner and retrieved it last week.

It is in very tough condition and had been out in the elements for a very long time. According to the SN, it dates to 1960. All the hydraulics had been stripped. Engine (1300 cc) is frozen. Front end had been damaged years ago and the nose repaired with a wooden laminate that clearly failed. Trans, diff, clamshells and other drive components seem good as does the cockpit frame. Tub and top marginal at best. Grousers may be recoverable from the track. Sprockets are the narrow old style.

I am very open to advice on possible avenues to proceed. Keeping my KT3 in reliable running condition is challenge enough w/o taking on a major restoration.

Thanks for any ideas or interest.
 

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alryA

Well-known member
Nice to have you here with us Rover! We have friends in G Falls and west Yellowstone.
 

Rover’n

Active member
In the dismantling process. As per Big Al’s recommendation, put heat to the sprocket nut and plenty of penetrating oil. Used a conventional wheel puller. Nonetheless, one sprocket broke and the other shows a hairline crack. Both may have
 

Rover’n

Active member
Both may have been compromised from decades of service.
The engine is hopelessly seized and will be set aside for later disassembly and inspection.
Plan for now is to break the thing down into manageable pieces and arrange for proper storage. Temps in Helena today may hit 100 F. Perfect for snowcat projects.
 

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Puckle

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
Interesting machines those Kristi's, worth preserving, but a lot of work I'm sure - good luck!
 

Badlander

New member
Hey there, am new to forum, but am working on the KT2A project with Rover'n. Here's some pictures of how mess up removing a cast aluminum drive pulley. Haste is waste, a rented puller didnt allow the time for proper penetration of oil. The solution in retrospect was more heat, more oil, but mostly more heat. Shouldnt even need a puller next time, just deadblow hammer or wood block and hammer. Also pictured is the partially cracked pulley. I don't think we cracked it on removal, it looked like an old crack. Will be looking into a replacement for these.
 

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alryA

Well-known member
Hey there, am new to forum, but am working on the KT2A project with Rover'n. Here's some pictures of how mess up removing a cast aluminum drive pulley. Haste is waste, a rented puller didnt allow the time for proper penetration of oil. The solution in retrospect was more heat, more oil, but mostly more heat. Shouldnt even need a puller next time, just deadblow hammer or wood block and hammer. Also pictured is the partially cracked pulley. I don't think we cracked it on removal, it looked like an old crack. Will be looking into a replacement for these.
Thanks for posting smaller photos that are easy to DL. (y) You should start your own thread on this.
 

Badlander

New member
One circlip on the front and one on the back hold this entire rail of wheels on. Thanks to Big Als forum advice we knew that! The rails knocked out easily, with two people each tapping on wooden blocks.
 

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Badlander

New member
The inside of the transmission had only a touch of light rust, transfer case looked intact and full of oil, am looking to pull diff+transmission together, at the same time pulling clamshell arrangement complete with axles. I think these clamshells should also pull off with a single circlip removed on each side, near to where the hydraulic ram attaches.
 

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Badlander

New member
Thanks for posting smaller photos that are easy to DL. (y) You should start your own thread on this.
Walmart cheapo phone must take low resolution haha, yeah probably should start a resto thread, just trying to let folks know we undertook this, and it may have some parts available to get a regional kristi running his winter. We bought it for parts on our kt3, which doesn't need parts, but planning ahead for it. I am kind of leaning towards a fiberglass tub restoration and putting it back together though after seeing how good everything looks!
 

Rover’n

Active member
The KT2A is pretty well broken down into its various components and cleaned up for storage. A few comments based on what my son and I have learned thus far:

A faithful restoration would entail sourcing quite a few component parts, such as a hydraulic system (pump, reservoir, pistons, lines and couplings); rear door; full track build-out; considerable fiberglass fabrication and window detail work.

The coach frame is a combination of angle steel and tube construction and is rather delicate in that most of the drive train weight is borne by the axles, rails, and tracks.

Again, would be very interested in advice, comments, and other observations on possible directions for this old KRISTI KT2A. Have wondered if a mold could be pulled from the nose pieces of my KT3 for fiberglass fabrication on the wrecked front of the KT2A. They would seem to be pretty close.

And, of course, the running KT3 needs a bit of work. Will have it out of summer storage in mid-July and will develop a separate posting on that.

Regards to all.
 

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Rover’n

Active member
Thanks, PP. The goal was always to “save” the thing, which I think we have done. The person who sold it to me at a bargain rate was also interested in seeing the Kristi be preserved somehow.

I had let a junked KT3 get away on me and I fear that one may have wound up at a recycler. Told myself I wouldn’t let that happen again.

That said, I am not now, or ever will be, a restoration expert on your level, or the late Big Al, London, Bobcat, KT3 Survivor or the many other enthusiasts on this site. You’ve all inspired me, though, and I want the great snowcat brands such as Kristi to live on somehow for future generations.

Now, on to those leaking hydraulics on my KT3.
 

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Rover’n

Active member
Tearing apart the old rotted track on the KT2A to salvage the wheel guides and flat caps of the grousers. The hickory tread is all hopelessly decayed, of course. The four-ply rubber track is also of no worth. The outside floating track was some type of canvass, and again too rotted. The Flexco fasteners seem of possible re-use, though. Our most successful approach was to test the nuts with an impact gun, which oftentimes broke the rust bond of the carriage bolts to the guides. Still, a lot of bolts had to be ground off or hit with a Saws-All. Temperature about 94 F.

Nice work if you can get it!
 

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Rover’n

Active member
Wondering about rust treatment for all these track components. Has anyone tried electrolysis on big amounts like this? I have successfully treated gas tanks this way, and small specialty parts. I do have a pretty large plastic tank. Something tells me to just store the things in a dry location and address each piece on the bench when the track build-out happens.
 

Rover’n

Active member
I second PP comment!
Hi, GMoose,

I love your Frandee Snoshu. How did you refurbish the wooden cleats? My Kristis have the hickory cleats and I am looking to source some replacements.

At some point, we may do a complete track buildout which may force a switch to synthetic cleats.

Paul D
 

alryA

Well-known member
Solid square HDPE?? Aluminum heavy walled square tubes?? What would you use for those cleats??? :unsure: Love working on someone elses project!
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Hi, GMoose,

I love your Frandee Snoshu. How did you refurbish the wooden cleats? My Kristis have the hickory cleats and I am looking to source some replacements.

At some point, we may do a complete track buildout which may force a switch to synthetic cleats.

Paul D
My friend obtained the hickory tree in Indiana, had it planked into 2" thick slabs, hauled those to Idaho where I spent weeks on a table saw, router table, and drill press making them. I believe there was someone in Colorado who was selling some Kristi wood cleats. You might ask Aaron Tucker, he may know who has them. Good luck.
 

Rover’n

Active member
The KT2A transmission is cleaning up nicely with WD40. That’s the linkage box to the left sitting upside-down.

Other image is of the 550 Flexco belt fasteners under attempted disassembly. That’s tough work extracting those countersunk specialty bolts. Clearly, these are intended as a “permanent” mount since the bolts appear to have been sheared off and peened.

The KT2A had single, continuous drive belts with just the one point of connection. The KT3 is in thirds, roughly seven-foot apiece, so lots more connections. I can see certain advantages to both approaches. Still, we are leaning toward the single continuous drive belting. With MN Outdoors offline, any suggestions to source drive belting?
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
The Flexco lacing bolts are indeed a special bolt and they break them off with a tool that just bends them...Then they peen them with a hammer.

It appears that the bogies run right up the center....Most likely standard grade 8 bolts will be fine.

Thiokol Used these same Lacings....but they used 3/8" grade 8 bolts with washers under the bolt head and the lock nut....

These are a good lacing......and are available from eMurdock.com in many different lengths....The Flexco is segmented and can snapped off where you need to be....

The belting is not really a tough nut to crack.

How many fabric plies in the belts.
How thick is the rubber cover that faces the grouser (Top cover)
How thick is the inner rubber cover

The belting is referred to..

Example
3/330 (3 ply, 330 pounds per inch of width "Tension"

Many smaller machines used 2 ply belting....Go too heavy and the performance will suffer....

Most belting dealers will happily cut the belts to the needed width and length for you.

YOU WILL HAVE TO lay out the holes for the grousers (PITCH OF THE SPROCKET WILL DICTATE WHERE THE HOLES GO)

Do not use the old belts as these have stretched or shrunk in the many years they have been out in the weather.

Do a search online for Conveyor belt dealers.

I found a dealer 15 miles from me that will supply what I need at very reasonable prices.....

Snow cat track belting is not rocket science.

There is not a Special belt for cats.
This said....many dealers sell belts precut and the holes punched so the end user only needs to assemble the tracks...

Fabric core ply material
Number of plies
Tensile strength (Weight per inch of width)
Top cover thickness
Bottom cover thickness
HOW MUCH % OF STRETCH (How much is it going to move on you)
What the fabric plies are made of (Cotton, nylon, or ??????)
You do not want a stretchy belt......1% elongation is common.....some good stuff will spec at 1/2%
The lower the percentage of elongation the less stretch and you won't be dealing with a lot of extra track adjustments.

Belting is available in many styles, with two, three or four ply cores

What is the belt that on the machine now ????? How thick and number of plies (You can usually see the plies on the side....If need be cut the belt to get a fresh look at the core)

You will need to make a drill jig to lay out the belts....Copy the original arrangement to get a good replacement.

Remember...The pitch of the sprocket dictates the hole centers for the grousers.......

Flexco has great tutorials online on how to install and use their products.....

I purchased some of the Flexco 550 lacing from eMurdock a while back......The kits come with the new fasteners.
You will need the tools to install the nuts and then break them off with.. Unless you are a purist....use standard bolts.....much easier to deal with...


Just my 2 cents...There are many outfits that sell used belting.....Probably not a good plan.....as you can't be sure of the age and construction of the material....Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much work to do it over any time soon...

When you drill the bolt holes.....Get some "Brad point drills the proper size" These do a sweet job of cutting the holes...

Good luck and have fun.
 
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Rover’n

Active member
Thanks, Snowy. Helpful info.

Working on both Kristis at once and my current thinking is as follows.

The 55-year old specs call for 5-ply cotton-nylon. There is 3-ply on there now, about 3/8”-thick. Width is 5-inch, but we noticed on the old KT2 that a 2-ply 1/4” belt was used and at 6-inch wide. So, it seems there is some latitude there.

We think above-ground rock conveyor belting might work well for its UV protection, strength, and puncture resistance. We have pretty good connections in the ag and mining sectors round here. Will keep posted on developments.

GMoose and Alyra, thanks for the comments. We love the hickory cleats, of course. Plan for the moment is to repair the KT3 track and cleats and use it to mount on the KT2A. Will try to use hickory for that. For the KT3 track build—out, we will go synthetic/composite for the cleats. Just cannot see a downside to that approach, outside of aesthetics, perhaps.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
JUST MY 2 CENTS.

If it were my machine....I would use the 3 ply 330 WITH 1/2% elongation.

6" belts would be fine....these are going to be a tad over 3/8" thick.....
1/8" covers on both sides if you can get it....Or 3/16" top cover and 1/16" bottom cover.

Should make great set of tracks.
 

Rover’n

Active member
The rail is off the KT3. The sprocket backing plate is always tough. There is a rubber seal that might be compromised from application of heat. Has anyone changed those out? Appears to be pressure fit. Can probably order by size.
 

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Rover’n

Active member
Interesting to compare the rails and bogie wheels between the KT2A and the KT3.
 

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Rover’n

Active member
Pulled the diff inspection plate on the KT3 and sucked out fluid. After only about 30 hours of service last winter it seemed rather dirty w/ possibly some water infiltration. Brakes seem good. Cut a new rubberized gasket; the felt one I used last time leaked a bit. Will try a mineral oil 90 wt that might be a bit more friendly to the wet brake system.

Pulled the four hydraulic pistons. Only one seems to be leaky. Springs seem good; I thought at least one was broken.

A lot of leakage occurred from the needle valves up on the dash, though. Since the leaking is so high up in the system, it makes a big mess as the hydro fluid finds every pathway to the tub floor and eventually onto the shop floor. I would like to keep those fixtures, but am having a hard time finding gaskets to fit them. Might try standard old-school faucet washers and see how they hold up. They are easy to access and change out as necessary.
 

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