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Why is the Covid Vaccine so slow to rollout?

Melensdad

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I'm not putting this into the main COVID thread we have going on the forum. It certainly would be relevant in that thread, but this is more about a failure in how we are distributing the vaccine than in the actual disease.

I'm immunocompromised, age 60, taking immunosuppressive drugs. You'd think I might be able to get on a list for a possible vaccination. Even if I'm not a super high risk, I'm clearly a higher risk than my wife who is 3 months younger than I am, but has no known health issues. My state treats us the same. We both are not able to get vaccinated. In fact you need to be 80 years old in my state to get vaccinated. Or you need to be a health care worker or a 1st responder or some other special class of citizen.

I'm not looking for a debate, or to blame politicians, I'm looking for a vaccine and as a former logistics guy who distributed thousands of items to thousands of stores, I just want to get this vaccine out to people and get past this virus. I want life to return to the world.

From BLOOMBERG comes this excellent article.

See the link for the full article and other related articles--> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-is-being-slowed-by-too-many-government-rules

Micromanagement Is Plaguing the Vaccine Rollout


A lot of people think that a take-charge attitude by Biden would inoculate America faster. Let’s hope he knows better.


Virginia PostrelJanuary 5, 2021, 8:30 AM CST​
For too many people, it’s a knee-jerk reaction: Blame the slow U.S. rollout of Covid-19 vaccines on too little central planning by the administration of President Donald Trump. Demand tighter control from the incoming administration of President Joe Biden. Limit the number of vaccination sites! Bring in the military! Put somebody in charge!​
But the problem with the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines isn’t that no one is in charge. Far from the answer, tighter federal control would probably be a disaster. It would only amplify the problem.​
By guaranteeing large purchases, the federal government gave manufacturers strong incentives to produce the vaccines. It was a smart move, and it worked. But now we’re experiencing the downside. Buying up the supplies and bestowing a vaccine monopoly on state governments blocked the normal distribution channels connecting producers with vaccinators.​
Whether you’re laying fiber optic cable or delivering packages, that last mile is the tricky, labor-intensive, expensive part. To reach individuals, the system has to go from centralized operations to decentralized ones. That’s why we have retailers rather than ordering our toilet paper from Georgia-Pacific, and why they, in turn, often rely on distributors. “Cutting out the middleman” is a catchy slogan, but intermediaries make the system work.​
When the federal government turned state agencies into the country’s vaccine distributors, it bypassed the usual supply chains. Doctors and hospitals couldn’t get Covid-19 vaccines the way they order other inoculations.​
Distribution also became politicized in ways that slow down vaccination. Every shot comes with a ton of paperwork, and the rationing rules are hard to understand. Who exactly qualifies as a health-care worker or an essential employee? Is it OK for hospitals to give shots to janitors or billing clerks?​
In Minnesota hospitals, one doctor who asked to remain anonymous noted in an interview, “there was a lot of focus on scheduling appointments and dividing up by departments to be sure they were fair” even if that meant delaying vaccines and potentially letting some supplies go to waste. It’s a widespread problem.​
As he threatens fines for hospitals that don’t use all their vaccines, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo also signed an executive order requiring providers to certify that every recipient qualifies under the current rationing protocol. Letting someone jump the queue now risks a $1 million fine and the loss of a state license. “If you wanted to make sure that rapidly expiring vaccines distributed in 10-dose vials end up in the trash, this is how you'd do it,” observed commentator Mason Hartman on Twitter.​
Micromanagement is impeding the rollout. In South Carolina, for instance, a medical assistant often gives injections in a doctor’s office, and the job requires no special certification. For Covid-19 vaccines, however, the state says that even someone with decades of experience can’t administer a shot unless they have an official credential.​
Instead of leaving decisions up to medical practices that give shots every day and know who can do the job, “each state has different rules on what level of person can give a [Covid-19] vaccine,” says Craig Robbins, a primary-care physician with Kaiser Permanente in Colorado, who has been working on the health management organization’s vaccine rollout.​
Distribution is hard enough without these roadblocks. Start with the numbers. At Kaiser Permanente facilities, a single vaccinator can give about 10 shots an hour, with much of the time spent filling out forms. To get to herd immunity, the U.S. needs to inject two doses several weeks apart to something like 240 million people. At 10 injections an hour, that’s 48 million hours of vaccinators’ time, 4.8 million hours a week over 10 weeks to get to early March. We’d need 120,000 vaccinators working 40-hour weeks. In a big country, that sounds doable.​
After all, the U.S. has nearly a million practicing physicians, about 4 million registered nurses, 920,000 licensed practical or vocational nurses, more than 670,000 medical assistants, plus pharmacists, paramedics and medical, dental, nursing and pharmacy students. The problem is that most of those people already have jobs or full-time coursework. Most aren’t available to spend all day giving Covid-19 shots.​
The last thing we need in these circumstances are special restrictions on who can administer vaccines — restrictions that send the perverse message that vaccines against this disease are somehow more questionable than those against the flu or measles.​
Before we lose more time, it’s worth asking what a program to get vaccines to people as quickly and effectively as possible might look like. Economist John Cochrane has made the case for selling vaccines to the highest bidder. That’s not going to happen, but we could do better by abandoning the urge to control every aspect of the process.​
Keep it simple. Use rationing rules people can easily understand. Worry less about queue jumping and more about getting vaccines into arms as quickly as possible. Trust medical professionals to do their jobs.​
Leaving matters to the states has one big virtue: It allows some pragmatic experimentation unapproved by the Centers for Disease Control’s bureaucrats. A growing number have gone to a simple age cutoff, offering vaccines to everyone over, say, 65.​
States could also make it much easier for medical professionals to organize vaccination drives. Allow any practice to set up days when they offer shots to their employees, patients and the community. Leave it up to them to decide who can administer the injections and how to manage sign-ups. Just provide the vaccines.​
Going a step further, allow any organization — a church, an alumni association, a sports league or any other legally incorporated group — that can round up the necessary space and qualified volunteers to offer a vaccination clinic. Hospitals and health departments can only do so much.​
Community groups offer two essential resources: trust and willing hands. For people who might be skittish about getting vaccines from strangers in impersonal institutions, having someone they know as the face of the injection can offer reassurance....​
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
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For the general public.

Now that just about every hospital employee and healthcare worker in long term care have received the vaccine, I don't understand why they aren't just making the vaccine available to all of YOU right now.

All of my residents have received theirs.
So have most (but not all) of the staff.
We're up for the second dose toward the end of the month.

It's nothing to fear.
I've yet to see an adverse reaction.
 

Melensdad

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My brother and other health care workers in my area have already gotten their 2nd dose. But I need to be 80+ to qualify to get one. WTF?
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
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Well, kinda hard not to blame politicians when they are the ones that got the vaccine first and totally politicized this whole China Virus and are responsible for this piss poor rollout for not effectively coordinating the shipments with their respective Health Departments. The elderly continue to wait and wait for their vaccine. I know of no one outside of the healthcare profession that has received the vaccine, other than politicians. While it is important for the healthcare workers to be vaccinated, it is just as important for immuno comprised people to get it as well.

At 72 It will be at least 6 months before I ever see a vaccine, guaranteed.
 

Deadly.Sushi

Active member
For the general public.

Now that just about every hospital employee and healthcare worker in long term care have received the vaccine, I don't understand why they aren't just making the vaccine available to all of YOU right now.

All of my residents have received theirs.
So have most (but not all) of the staff.
We're up for the second dose toward the end of the month.

It's nothing to fear.
I've yet to see an adverse reaction.
I read that 50% of hospital workers dont want the vaccine and 60% of retirement home employees dont want it.
I certainly dont want it. I dont trust it nor the people behind making it.
My good friends daughter that works at a hospital took her 2nd dose a few days ago. All her joints felt like they were on fire. She was in a insane amount of pain. I hear about 20% have similar reactions BUT MSM isnt saying a word about that.
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
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The state will then begin a cascading dispersal, wherein every week after the January 19 start, the vaccine will be eligible for those a little younger.

On January 25, those 75 and older can get the vaccine. On February 1, those 70 and older can get it, and so on.

More guidance will be provided on Thursday when the Ohio Department of Health will post information on what providers are being allocated vaccinations for next week.
 

Melensdad

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The vaccine in the US is taking so long because Trump didn't accept them weeks ago.
Elaborate!

Links to articles?
Some evidence to back up the claim?

Near as I can tell the government decided to bypass the normal pharmaceutical distribution network and distribute it themselves. The commercial distribution channels are well established and efficient. Literally reaching every clinic, pharmacy and hospital in the nation. There was no need to bypass that system to get the vaccine into capable hands. That is how the flu vaccine is distributed to tens of thousands of points of delivery every year. Why change it for the Covid vaccine?
 

EastTexFrank

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Elaborate!

Links to articles?
Some evidence to back up the claim?

Near as I can tell the government decided to bypass the normal pharmaceutical distribution network and distribute it themselves. The commercial distribution channels are well established and efficient. Literally reaching every clinic, pharmacy and hospital in the nation. There was no need to bypass that system to get the vaccine into capable hands. That is how the flu vaccine is distributed to tens of thousands of points of delivery every year. Why change it for the Covid vaccine?

Melensdad, I don't know. The only thing that I can think of is because of the refrigeration requirements for the vaccine. -70° is a very low temperature for storage and not all facilities have the capability and I know that some such as our local CVS has no intention of installing them.

I do know that all the facilities around here that are administering the vaccine have closed their registration lists until further notice. It's a wait and see situation. I try to be philosophical about it saying that we've been in this thing for 10 months so that another couple of months is manageable but it is frustrating.
 

Melensdad

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Th
Melensdad, I don't know. The only thing that I can think of is because of the refrigeration requirements for the vaccine. -70° is a very low temperature for storage and not all facilities have the capability and I know that some such as our local CVS has no intention of installing them.

I do know that all the facilities around here that are administering the vaccine have closed their registration lists until further notice. It's a wait and see situation. I try to be philosophical about it saying that we've been in this thing for 10 months so that another couple of months is manageable but it is frustrating.
Frank that -70 freezer is only for 1 of the 2 available vaccines. The other can be distributed by normal drug distribution channels. B
 

Melensdad

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I thought this was an interesting article. Here are the key points:
  • Doctors are warning that as the virus becomes more infectious, even a trip to the supermarket with a mask is risky.

  • Vaccine supply is not the problem.... The problem is that state and local authorities are bungling vaccine distribution.
  • Every evening, Governor Andrew Cuomo sends out an e-mail blast blaming the vaccine chaos in New York on inadequate supply from the federal government. It is a lie. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show New York is delivering only 37% of its vaccine supply into people's arms.
  • All this is proof that the states are failing miserably. It is time for a federal emergency mass vaccination program staged at malls, arenas and other public sites.
  • On Friday, President-elect Joe Biden announced his plan to improve vaccination rates. It is modest. He promised 100 million shots in the first hundred days of his term. That will not do the job. It is barely half of what is needed.
  • For the last week, members of Congress did not see fit to spend even one minute tackling the life-threatening virus terrorizing the rest of us.

 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
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  • Vaccine supply is not the problem.... The problem is that state and local authorities are bungling vaccine distribution.


I can believe that. I wouldn't say that Texas is bungling the distribution but I would say that their priorities are not my priorities. They seem to prioritize large population centers, which I suppose is only fair. You have to put the pill to the pain. It does make it frustrating to people like me who live in rural areas though.

The Pfizer vaccine is the only one that I've heard of being distributed in our area.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
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Olivegirl, I know a guy who is a lot like you. He is in his 50s and owns his own HVAC business. He caught and was hospitalized with COVID. He has "recovered" and been discharged but is still a helluva mess. He's never smoked but his doctor says that his lungs look as if he smoked 2 or 3 packs a day for his whole life. He is chronically short of breath and suffers from extreme fatigue. He said that if he didn't own his own business he wouldn't be able to work at all. As it is, he is restricted to office duties and can no longer go in to the field. I know of another couple where the husband is in the same shape. It is a strange disease, affecting different people in different ways. My heart goes out to you.

Vaccine distribution in my part of Texas seems to be picking up steam. I've had both my shots and had calls from 2 other lists that we were on. Smaller vaccine sites are opening up. Our local CVS is administering shots now. Our local grocery store pharmacy has been giving shots almost from the beginning. I don't know about the local Walmart pharmacy. The larger locations are gearing up to handle more and more people as they get better access to the vaccine. The location where we got our shots, UT Health in Tyler, is increasing it's potential throughput to 25 people every 15 minutes but it is all dependent on vaccine availability.

Almost every older person that I personally know has had at least the first vaccine shot. My wife is still working to get older people who don't have a computer or access to the internet or are not computer literate to get on to lists.
 

Melensdad

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. . . I am ready to try everything that doctors offer, so as not to get infected again and experience the horror that I had. The disease was complicated, I even lay in the hospital for 2 weeks. I was discharged last month, and my life is not the same as it was before the illness. I feel very bad, I find it difficult to breathe, it is difficult for me to move, it is difficult for me even to climb the stairs. . . .

There is a lot of new information coming out about IVERMECTIN and studies are now showing that it MIGHT HELP with people who have, what is commonly called, "long haul" covid

Ivermectin is a CHEAP generic prescription drug, it is approved for study for Covid in the US so your doctor can prescribe it but may not know about it as a treatment for Covid. It is widely available at very low cost.

This is a short summary video, he actually went over this data for 2 days, but this condenses things down.

 

NorthernRedneck

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Meanwhile up in my neck of the woods, they are happy to report that people over age 85 can now call in and fight for one of the limited supply of vaccine available. And they're also proud to announce a clinic that will handle up to 500 people a day being vaccinated in a population base of over 150000. At this rate, it'll be 2022 before the middle aged general population is able to get vaccinated.
 

Melensdad

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Meanwhile up in my neck of the woods, they are happy to report that people over age 85 can now call in and fight for one of the limited supply of vaccine available. And they're also proud to announce a clinic that will handle up to 500 people a day being vaccinated in a population base of over 150000. At this rate, it'll be 2022 before the middle aged general population is able to get vaccinated.
Damn, I think we started a bit slow but we are in good shape now.

Indiana has about 5 million adults (6.2 total people), and approximately 1.25 million are vaccinated. With 25% of the adults vaccinated, and 670,000 confirmed Covid cases (of all ages) roughly 1/3rd of the state's total population has or is nearing immunity. We seem to be vaccinating 20-25,000 per day in my state, which I think is pretty good given that we are a "flyover" state with a relatively rural population. I know that there are going to be a few "mass vaccination" sites opening up around the state soon.

If, as suspected, more people had Covid than tested positive, we could be closer to 40% with immunity right now. There should be another 300,000-325,000 vaccinated before the end of the month, even without the opening of the new "mass vaccination" sites.

New transmissions are plummeting.

I believe Governor Holcomb will hang onto our mask mandate through the end of the month, but I'm curious to see what he does for April with masks. We have been "open" since November 1 of 2020. Restaurants, health clubs, bars, etc. There were some limits but those have been eased over the winter. Not sure about large sporting events, I suspect those have limited audiences.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
For the general public.

Now that just about every hospital employee and healthcare worker in long term care have received the vaccine, I don't understand why they aren't just making the vaccine available to all of YOU right now.

All of my residents have received theirs.
So have most (but not all) of the staff.
We're up for the second dose toward the end of the month.

It's nothing to fear.
I've yet to see an adverse reaction.
I got a call yesterday from Patient First concerning an appointment for the vaccine. When I inquired she stated that the earliest appointment was Saturday at eight. When I declined she stated they had walkins available same Saturday. That's 3 days turnaround. So now I don't know what to think.
 

EastTexFrank

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I read somewhere that Gov Abbott had announced that Texas is giving 134,000+ shots a day, depending on vaccine availability. I know that they have opened several drive-thru mega centers in the large cities. The one in Houston can handle 6,000 people a day.

Something truly wonderful happened in our little town yesterday. The local County Judge on hearing the difficulty some older people were having in registering online for the vaccine shots, contacted the Governor's office for help and advice. The Governor for his part allocated 500 shots and the Texas National Guard to administer them. They arranged a "Senior-Thon" at the local Civic Center where older people could walk-in and get their shot with no prior registration. They also arranged a volunteer shuttle service for those who needed it. Mid-afternoon they were literally running out of old people to vaccinate so they dropped the qualifying age to 55+ and kept on going till all 500 shots had been used. It just shows that there are still good people in this world. Thank you Gov Abbott and the Guard. I guess we will see them again in 3 weeks for the second round of shots.
 
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Melensdad

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Wow.?

Interesting.

I've seen a lot of stories about people who tested positive within 10 days of taking the FIRST shot (from any of the vaccines). In instances where there were contact tracers they found the people actually had contact with an infected person right before or right after getting their 1st dose.

They do say that the vaccines don't stop all cases, and maximum immunity doesn't occur until 2 to 3 weeks after the second dose. What they also say is IF YOU GET COVID after you take the vaccine you won't end up in the hospital.
 

Melensdad

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I'm really confused by the vaccination rollout.

Indiana & Illinois have essentially the same % of FULLY VACCINATED citizens (IN is 1/10% higher). Illinois has a slightly higher % with the 1st dose.

Indiana is vaccinating anyone over age 40.
Illinois is still only vaccinating people
over age 65.
*** both states vaccinate "essential" and "sick" people of any age.

Everyone I know (above age 40 in Indiana) who wants the vaccine has been able to get an appointment. Usually there is a 3 to 4 week lag between scheduling and getting the appointment but people in Indiana are getting them set. My friends in Illinois are having trouble getting appointment for their elderly parents..

Starting APRIL 1st, Indiana will allow anyone 16+ years old to get vaccinated
We already made an appointment for our 19 year old foreign exchange student to get her Covid vaccine on April 5th.

So my question is, why are there such differences between these 2 neighboring states?
 

EastTexFrank

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I don't know Bob. I think a lot of it has to do with the States that are organizing it. In Texas, the State is anticipating increased supplies of the vaccine and has dropped the age restriction to "all adults" as of next week. The definition of "adult" seems to be 16+ for the Pfizer vaccine and 18+ for the Moderna. Those 85+ are still given priority but I know a few people in their late 70s who still haven't received their first shot. To be honest that is not the fault of the system. They have all been contacted to come get their shots but for various reasons had to turn down the appointment. As one told me, they had pressing business elsewhere on the appointed day. So now they are bitching about how the system has failed them. In my book, you either want to get the shots or you don't. Your choice, your priorities.
 

NorthernRedneck

Well-known member
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Our city is still doing over age 75. Other parts of the problem are on to the younger generation. I still don't see the middle aged population in my area getting it before end of the year.
 

EastTexFrank

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OH! I forgot to mention in my post above that the "pressing business" that the guy had was that his 70-odd year old wife was giving a yoga class and didn't want to cancel on her paying customers.
 

Ceee

Well-known member
Site Supporter
a lot of it has to do with the States that are organizing it.
To be honest that is not the fault of the system. They have all been contacted to come get their shots but for various reasons had to turn down the appointment.
I can see a fault in the Texas system. Many people, especially older people, don't have access to a computer, smart phone, or dah, dah, dah. Their normal/old-school way of doing things is to go to where the vaccines are being given and try to get one. These people probably aren't going to yoga :). They know they need the vaccine, are willing to get it, and are being turned down and told to schedule online or to call.

I'm not knocking old-school because I have some old-school ways too.

I did hear Abbott say the other day that he was working on getting the walk in vaccines going, but he's obviously not there yet. I hope he gets that done shortly because people who do want the vaccine are being left behind.
 

Adillo303

Diesel Truck Fan
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Alaska is vaccinating anyone over 16 or 18, whatever the minimum age is.
I have heard tell of 18 year olds being vaccinated who were waiting in the ER of other things when the vax'ers are done and doses would be wasted.
 

Melensdad

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Alaska is vaccinating anyone over 16 or 18, whatever the minimum age is.
I have heard tell of 18 year olds being vaccinated who were waiting in the ER of other things when the vax'ers are done and doses would be wasted.
Indiana is starting to vaccinate 16+ year olds this week.

People of any age have been able to get on a waiting list for ‘extra’ doses since the beginning. Indiana, like Alaska, doesn’t want to waste any shots. Illinois seems to be different and was wasting shots. Not sure if they still are, but it’s hard to find any extra doses.
 

stevenkingg99

New member
I believe every new thing takes time to come out. And, this is your life is at stake so it is evident that the vaccines will take some time to come out but our politicians if stop playing politics then I think we'll vaccinated within six months or so. And there are many anti-vaccine people who don't want to take a jab and instead wants to spread corona. They too are responsible for this slow roll out of vaccine.
 

NorthernRedneck

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Both my wife and I got the first jab back in late may and were both given follow up dates in late September for the second one. The guberment was able to secure more vaccines as we were able to rebook on Tuesday for july 14th.
 
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