Newbie question. I have a mountain cabin in Central Washington state that has a steep access road. I'm considering a snow cat for winter access, the steepest section of the road is 12 degrees and tends to ice heavily (shaded, limited sun). How does a machine like a Tucker 1000/2000 with steel tracks work on icy grades? A snow groomers with a tiller for the ice seems like an option but maybe an overkill? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Tucker and Ice Traction
- Thread starter Paul_W
- Start date
Paul,
I think a stock steel track Tucker on ice will provide you with a white knuckle experience. I’d suggest you call Tucker and ask for Jeff Godard. He’s a good man, has a wealth of knowledge and easy to talk to, and if you buy a Tucker, he’s a good contact to have.
I have no experience with operating Tuckers on serious ice, and I don’t really have any desire to. The stock Tucker steel grousers when new have what Tucker calls "ice cleats". My personal impression is this might give you a false sense of security/capability. The so-called ice cleats are the very center section of the grouser and they run perpendicular to the grouser bar. They also are the first point of contact on a flat surface. If all you do is run your snowcat in soft snow, they probably will last quite a while. But operating even for a short time on hard surfaces will wear the ice cleats down fast. None of the Tuckers I've owned have any significant amount of their original ice cleats left. Really their function is side hill holding at that point. I think you can buy replacement pieces to weld to the grousers to restore the original ice cleat profile, but they'll wear down quickly, too.
Years ago, mid-seventies, I had an Arctic Cat snowmobile and their tracks were rubber belts with steel U-shaped cleats riveted to the rubber belts. They worked well on snow, but on ice... not so much. I installed a product called Kalamazoo Cat Klaws (sp?), which for my machine was a stamped square piece of steel that fit inside the U-shaped cleats. They had sharp points on the corners that bit into the ice. When installed, they stood proud of the cleats and they worked well.
To piggyback on what Cidertom said, my understanding is some people modify their Tuckers with ice spikes. They attach spike receptacles to their grousers and the spikes are then installed. They are not installed on every grouser and the individual spikes are replaceable. Over the years I've seen photos of Tuckers with grousers that have been modified with the receptacles
Here are a couple links:
https://www.mtnequipment.com/icespikes.html
mountaingrooming.com
I think a stock steel track Tucker on ice will provide you with a white knuckle experience. I’d suggest you call Tucker and ask for Jeff Godard. He’s a good man, has a wealth of knowledge and easy to talk to, and if you buy a Tucker, he’s a good contact to have.
I have no experience with operating Tuckers on serious ice, and I don’t really have any desire to. The stock Tucker steel grousers when new have what Tucker calls "ice cleats". My personal impression is this might give you a false sense of security/capability. The so-called ice cleats are the very center section of the grouser and they run perpendicular to the grouser bar. They also are the first point of contact on a flat surface. If all you do is run your snowcat in soft snow, they probably will last quite a while. But operating even for a short time on hard surfaces will wear the ice cleats down fast. None of the Tuckers I've owned have any significant amount of their original ice cleats left. Really their function is side hill holding at that point. I think you can buy replacement pieces to weld to the grousers to restore the original ice cleat profile, but they'll wear down quickly, too.
Years ago, mid-seventies, I had an Arctic Cat snowmobile and their tracks were rubber belts with steel U-shaped cleats riveted to the rubber belts. They worked well on snow, but on ice... not so much. I installed a product called Kalamazoo Cat Klaws (sp?), which for my machine was a stamped square piece of steel that fit inside the U-shaped cleats. They had sharp points on the corners that bit into the ice. When installed, they stood proud of the cleats and they worked well.
To piggyback on what Cidertom said, my understanding is some people modify their Tuckers with ice spikes. They attach spike receptacles to their grousers and the spikes are then installed. They are not installed on every grouser and the individual spikes are replaceable. Over the years I've seen photos of Tuckers with grousers that have been modified with the receptacles
Here are a couple links:
https://www.mtnequipment.com/icespikes.html
Your one-stop source for new and used snow grooming equipment, parts and repair services.
Mountain Grooming Equipment is your one-stop source for competitively priced, reliable new and used equipment including drags, groomers and parts, plus summer repair service by an experienced crew.
I am in east central wisconsin, we deal with a fair amount of ice. the weld on ice caulks are your answer. BFT makes a very valid point and to further his point, I feel a new stock ( steel track ) tucker is unstoppable on ice. generally speaking the Ice keels are gone on most second hand machines, to my knowledge tucker does not supply replacement weld on keels. they are easy to make and are the best improvement you can do to a used tucker.
If you go with a two track machine every 5th or 7th grouser is plenty.
If i had to climb the grade in your photo, I would have two tracks in the snow and you will find plenty of go and control.
If you go with a two track machine every 5th or 7th grouser is plenty.
If i had to climb the grade in your photo, I would have two tracks in the snow and you will find plenty of go and control.
Paul,
A couple years ago I bought a set of take off tracks from Tucker (rubber belted, steel grouser) with only 2-3 seasons on them because a new buyer of a used machine wanted new tracks. They had part of the pockets that had held ice spikes still welded on them. I asked about this and was told that Tucker had cut the spikes off when they removed the tracks because this was a style that they had tried but didn't end up working out well. Since I'm not in conditions where I'm worried about ice spikes, I didn't inquire as to why. Anyway, it might be worth talking to Tucker as they have field experience that amounts to lifetimes of our trial and error.
I was also at one time, talking to one of the salesman at Tucker, can't recall their name, about traction of the terra tracks on ice. He told me that they had at one time essentially added water to a parking lot to create an ice ring. A comparative driving test showed that the terra tracks were better on ice than the belted steel grousers. Not sure if that was with or without spikes.
A couple years ago I bought a set of take off tracks from Tucker (rubber belted, steel grouser) with only 2-3 seasons on them because a new buyer of a used machine wanted new tracks. They had part of the pockets that had held ice spikes still welded on them. I asked about this and was told that Tucker had cut the spikes off when they removed the tracks because this was a style that they had tried but didn't end up working out well. Since I'm not in conditions where I'm worried about ice spikes, I didn't inquire as to why. Anyway, it might be worth talking to Tucker as they have field experience that amounts to lifetimes of our trial and error.
I was also at one time, talking to one of the salesman at Tucker, can't recall their name, about traction of the terra tracks on ice. He told me that they had at one time essentially added water to a parking lot to create an ice ring. A comparative driving test showed that the terra tracks were better on ice than the belted steel grousers. Not sure if that was with or without spikes.
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Appreciate it, super helpful.
I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I want to avoid an expensive mistake so learning from you guys is helpful!Paul,
I think a stock steel track Tucker on ice will provide you with a white knuckle experience. I’d suggest you call Tucker and ask for Jeff Godard. He’s a good man, has a wealth of knowledge and easy to talk to, and if you buy a Tucker, he’s a good contact to have.
I have no experience with operating Tuckers on serious ice, and I don’t really have any desire to. The stock Tucker steel grousers when new have what Tucker calls "ice cleats". My personal impression is this might give you a false sense of security/capability. The so-called ice cleats are the very center section of the grouser and they run perpendicular to the grouser bar. They also are the first point of contact on a flat surface. If all you do is run your snowcat in soft snow, they probably will last quite a while. But operating even for a short time on hard surfaces will wear the ice cleats down fast. None of the Tuckers I've owned have any significant amount of their original ice cleats left. Really their function is side hill holding at that point. I think you can buy replacement pieces to weld to the grousers to restore the original ice cleat profile, but they'll wear down quickly, too.
Years ago, mid-seventies, I had an Arctic Cat snowmobile and their tracks were rubber belts with steel U-shaped cleats riveted to the rubber belts. They worked well on snow, but on ice... not so much. I installed a product called Kalamazoo Cat Klaws (sp?), which for my machine was a stamped square piece of steel that fit inside the U-shaped cleats. They had sharp points on the corners that bit into the ice. When installed, they stood proud of the cleats and they worked well.
To piggyback on what Cidertom said, my understanding is some people modify their Tuckers with ice spikes. They attach spike receptacles to their grousers and the spikes are then installed. They are not installed on every grouser and the individual spikes are replaceable. Over the years I've seen photos of Tuckers with grousers that have been modified with the receptacles
Here are a couple links:
https://www.mtnequipment.com/icespikes.html
Your one-stop source for new and used snow grooming equipment, parts and repair services.
Mountain Grooming Equipment is your one-stop source for competitively priced, reliable new and used equipment including drags, groomers and parts, plus summer repair service by an experienced crew.
My budget is is steering me toward a steel track machine. Appreciate the insights, you guys have been super helpful.
I was thinking the same thing that the snow along the sides might provide enough traction with a wide two-track machine. What attracted me to Tucker was they seem easy to source parts for and work on. I need to carefully think though this before I spend a bunch of money on a non-optimal solution (not that I haven't done that before : ) ) . Thanks for the input.
Here it comes from the old fart. The last generation of steel pontoon Tuckers had grousers with taper. I have used them on 35 degree, not percent, side hills with solid ice which is impossible to walk on without crampons. This configuration was used in Antarctica on one of the 743 Sno-Cats to lower a D-4 Caterpillar tractor down an ice sheet. The bad news about these machines is that they will self-destruct on rocks, sand, or mud.
I'm thinking a tiller would not last long when it cuts through the ice and hits the road. Jack
35 degree is super steep, beyond anything I would climb. Appreciate the insight on the tiller, I don't have any experience with the snow tillers.
Couple snowmobiles picked out or sxs with tracks studded for those conditions.
Tucker is a miserable ride on the hard. Pontoons aren’t but it’s hard on them.
Tucker is a miserable ride on the hard. Pontoons aren’t but it’s hard on them.