UNA TRACK. Wheel conversion tracks.

Well here's how it started. I answered an ad on our local offroad board for some wheel replacement tracks. I remembered seeing a BroncoII on a set of these while I was a younger lad. I had to have them and soon had them loaded up.



Each track is designed to be adapted to most any wheel lug pattern. They have removable plates that bolt to the drive wheel. You just have plates made to match your rig.


Here's the set that came with mine. Most appear to be originally 5 on 5.5. This one was hacked out to fit on the huge Rockwell 6 hole pattern.

Here are some pics from back in the day. These were made in the early to mid 70's I believe.

Here is the govt. report and write up on them. Also in the rear of the PDF file is the owner/operator manual for them. Also exploded view diagrams.
http://www.m715zone.com/jonmisc/UNA.pdf


Got ground clearance?


Changes the entire attitude of the truck.

Biggest problem I could see with longevity was the track sections. They appear to be made of some form of super plastic. But they did have cracks and rips in them. I added a 3 ply rubber band all around both edges to strengthen the weak spots. Lots of bolts and holes to drill. I could find replacement track sections no where. UNATRACK is out of buisness I believe, the phone number and address on the back of each track section does not work any longer.


Installing on the Jeep.


maiden voyage


Awesome!

What I did find is my poor stock power steering was not up to the task. There's alot of surface area to move here compared to a tire! So I added ram assist. I used the power steering ram off of an early 70's Ford truck.






Ported power steering box.

I ultimately ended up using a '91 Jeep Cherokee box and alos did the pump mods for increases flow and pressure. This setup steers like a dream, fewer turns lock to lock, and improved normal highway road feel as well.

VERY good info!

From zero to hero.


Heading to the second stuck of the day...




Stuck!


Turning around.

Ok so this thing can float..

Video footage? You should post some!

http://www.kyrias.com/deepmud/Tracks in Hatchers Pass.wmv

It's 4minutes 21 seconds. I have another I'll have to find.

I'll say it again - All this talk of a "economy" snowcat stops with this video. Put those tracks on a smaller vehicle (Jeep CJ/YJ/TJ, Samouri, etc.) and you got it made.

Great video. Do you think there is a way to keep the track from rotating up into the chassis like it did at the end of the video, or is it really not a problem?

Lockers would make that thing AWESOME!!!!!! I can see a set on my wrangler very soon!!!

Av8r3400 said:

I'll say it again - All this talk of a "economy" snowcat stops with this video. Put those tracks on a smaller vehicle (Jeep CJ/YJ/TJ, Samouri, etc.) and you got it made.

Click to expand...

Yea, I'll be adding tracks like these to an ATV or UTV/RTV before getting a dedicated snowcat. They make them for all size vehicles and I can just do a quick swap to make myself a snowcat (of sorts).

Not having an anti-torque device is lame in some situations. Where I drove off the trail and over some burried Willows that had formed a pocket under the snow, having the fronts automatically rotating up would have kept me from plowing under.

Yes, a selectable front locker would be awesome with these. I did upgrade to limited slips front and rear after that video was taken. Helped some and they were free, but lockers would make it great. And yes, put these on a light weight vehicle and you'd be golden. A Samurai is the perfect weight, they will fit on one, but I dont see the stock Sammy axles and knuckles holding up. They also effectively double your gearing. If you were running a 30" tire, the drive wheel is now 15". Any light Jeep etc. would do great. I just used the Waggy because I had it, and it was fun to haul my family and parents around in style.

The track units weigh right at 200lbs. each. The later units had the front wheel tipped up some for better climbing ability.

I too feel the Mattracks are cornering the market on wheel replacement tracks and are grossly overcharging, I know a ton of time and research goes into them, but come on 20K?

A friend of mine bought a set made out of snowmobile tracks for is Sammy from a gentleman in Maine. That gentleman recieved a letter from Mattracks telling him to stop making them based on copywrite infringement.

I know of three sets of UNATRACKS in AK, I'm sure there are more. There was a set on ebay awhile back, looked pristine. All the wheels are still available from R&K wheels. Just build a frame, a drive drum with replaceable gears and three belts held together with grousers. Done.

Great Video, not too long ago when passing through Karlstad stopped and took these photos of the new version Mattracks. I would never pay the price but took pictures for reference.

dansvan said:

.....

I too feel the Mattracks are cornering the market on wheel replacement tracks and are grossly overcharging, I know a ton of time and research goes into them, but come on 20K?

A friend of mine bought a set made out of snowmobile tracks for is Sammy from a gentleman in Maine. That gentleman recieved a letter from Mattracks telling him to stop making them based on copywrite infringement.

I know of three sets of UNATRACKS in AK, I'm sure there are more. There was a set on ebay awhile back, looked pristine. All the wheels are still available from R&K wheels. Just build a frame, a drive drum with replaceable gears and three belts held together with grousers. Done.

Click to expand...

Yea, I think I saw the same set sell on eBay. They looked great and I was tempted but wasn't sure of the history and didn't know anyone that used them...now I know better!

Here's a link to a guy in Maine...I wonder if this is the guy that got notice from Mattracks???? I hate it when companies stop entrepreneurship and also copyright issues....and besides, there are three levels really:

1. Copyright...limited threat
2. Patent infringement...could be something here
3. Trade secrets...limited threat

So, I have a buddy with access to a global patent database. I'm all over that when he gets back from vaca in a week. I'll look up what I can find and see what's there and then provide the info here so people know the scoop.

I agree tha Mattracks are very nicely engineered pieces of gear. However, the notion of a tracked four-drive vehicle (at the very highest level description) is probably not a restrictive patentable concept but a level down would be...an example of a type of track, etc.. Otherwise you never know if Tucker would have issues with Mattracks. If it's the idea of being able to take off car tires and put on tracks then I doubt there's much to stand on for Mattracks but let's see. I've seen the other units out there... as you guys have seen the variants for ATV's. There is no way Mattracks is stopping them as there are plenty of competitors to the Mattrack Lightfoot. I question the validity of Mattracks being able to stop anyone from making these in a different form. Again, I'll look into the patents. Copyright should not apply in this instance for several reasons. That even steams me up more about Mattracks...not only are they charging a fortune but they're stopping natural competition. Luvly.

This is an awesome write-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the photos and information!

Av8r3400 said:

I'll say it again - All this talk of a "economy" snowcat stops with this video. Put those tracks on a smaller vehicle (Jeep CJ/YJ/TJ, Samouri, etc.) and you got it made.

Click to expand...

They work great for hard pack snow not powder or anything deep. Also a set runs about 20K now which is ridiculas! BUT they sure would be fun for some trails and such we go 4 wheeling on in the winter. To bad they dont work good in powder.

The testing described a modified set that had the leading edge turned up to allow better "climb out" for lack of a better term. I think this is the key to better powder performance. A snowmobile nose up with enough track under it will go through an amazing ammount of powder. On the net sometime ago I saw a frame that you drove your whole truck up on, chainde it down, coupled the rear drive wheels to input shafts, and drove away on tracks. Steering was done electrically with buttons from the cab. Anyone seen anything like this?

There is a company that has built some of those here in Minnesota. do not have any photos now but have seen them they have been used on Lake of the woods for transporting people to their fish houses they have been using vans and turning by appling one brake or the other on the differential .

As Mainer said, it's most likely Mattracks is fighting/over-extending their TRUE patents.
They have just enough money to scare away competition but by law, I doubt they have a case.

Soooo.... the 'unofficial word' (I haven't yet obtained access to that patent database but will next week), is that Mattracks has a patent on what is the 'over-rotation' concept for these puppies. Basically, the other guys out there that produce them have been told (by Mattracks...so due diligence pending next week), that they dare not try to create a connection between the track 'base' and the vehicle as that would be a breach of patent law.

So, as it stands, those competing products seem to be unfit for hard-core off-road use over timbers, rocks, embankments, etc... but are fine for plenty of heavy snow over a dirt/gravel/flat surface or pathway...places that won't result in the track turning over or under on itself.

They did have a way that did not break patent and that was to simply add a bar out in front of the vehicle that the track would come up and hit on its way to flipping under or over. But, 95% of the guys that were buying these said they didn't get into these situations because they were always used for grooming or for cabin access over a road, etc...

I think that most people would be pretty darn good with buying something like this to suit their needs. Yea, it would be great to go way off into unexplored moon-craters, etc... but (at least for me), almost all travel is across a known field, road, or path of some reasonable unobstructed nature.

Cost is between $4-5K. The tracks are the typical snowmobile tracks so costs and replacement are reasonable without any funky proprietary design or manufacture.

I'll let y'all know what I find in the patent database.

On the other side of the coin ... it's clear that the engineering in the mattracks is far superior to those of the competing products however I still can't see the multiples of greater cost. I'll look under other types of related patents as well to see what's out there...

Then... on a whole other currency... you can get an older snowcat for $5K and have how much more fun????? So, even at $5K I'm not sure if they're totally attractive.

There is a Chevrolet Suburban running those things up here and it's kind of a pain in the ass to the rest of us. The ground pressure is so great it presses "rails" into the groomed trail which messes up the snowmobiles, especially novice, young, or slow moving riders. In most conditions it can't get over or off the packed trail so everyboby else has to make way for it. We all have to get along so I don't want to dis them too bad but I'm not real displeased that this is a very expensive system either.

The problem is as you noted, putting these units on such a large vehicle as a Suburban.

If they were on a Cherokee, CJ/TJ/YJ or Sammi, I'd bet the PSI would be much more condusive to "cat-like" operations.

(Guestimates) Tracks: 18" wide x 36" length (ground contact) = 648" x 4 tracks = 2592 sq. in.

2592 / 2500# Jeep = 1.04 psi. No, not a snowcat, but...

The UnaTacks I posted are 60-61 inches long on the ground. 17 inches wide.
So these models have about 4080 square inches to play with. Samurais weigh in around 2500 lbs. Jeeps are more. the TJ is around 3900, the base model Cherokee is actually lighter. (no frame) My big FSJ is probably pushing 5000 lbs. There is quite a bit more surface area on these than mattracks.

Yea, that's one thing that really bothers me about the design is that they are using the standard snowmobile track (great for replacement of course), in that it's too small to allow for really proper float.

The UNA Tracks are bigger for better float ... but then a track replacement is a little tricky and also may need the ram assist. Mattrack loading is probably high because they appear to be smaller than the UNA's... I haven't looked up the numbers but they look that way. Of course you can pay Mattracks even more and get bigger/wider tracks. It's just more money right?

My preference would of course be CAT but I'd like to fiddle with something like this because I have an old SUV just aching to be made into a snow-beast. Folks I spoke to that make the 'low-end competing product' said it actually *is* a complex engieering challenge to do the anti-rotate safety bar...not just a 'supposed' patent issue.

I still need to get set of some sort of thing like this for kicks. There was a samurai that was for sale with a set but they wanted $7K for it...nasty shape on both tracks and samurai so I passed.

My idea for an anti rotation device would be a torsion sping trailer spindle. mount the square end in your design and link the lever into your steering. would allow the track to move up and down to follow terrain, but wouldn't let it flop around.

dansvan said:

My idea for an anti rotation device would be a torsion sping trailer spindle. mount the square end in your design and link the lever into your steering. would allow the track to move up and down to follow terrain, but wouldn't let it flop around.

Click to expand...

I'll check out the patent designs that have been approved to date and see if there is something like this. If not... you may want to consider filing a patent application...relatively dirt cheap as long as you keep a lawyer out of it (which is pretty straightforward to do). Otherwise I would fear that the M-company may file it just to keep others from putting it into their design (hopefully they don't read the forum!).

So many companies buy patents just to shelve the idea to prevent competition. Gross but a fact of business.

I think the one place that you do get your money's worth from Mattracks is in the ATV track. They leveraged alot of design from their full-size version obviously and they actually sell for a more reasonable sum. When you look at those and what the competitors offer for ATV's... they blow the competitor away for price/performance point of view. I saw a used set recently for $2,500 with only 1 season of light use. I'll buy a set of those down the road. Of course Mattracks hasn't attacked the ATV competitors because the money ain't so great... although I think there are far more Mattracks out there for ATV's %-wise than for trucks/suv's/etc.

Any luck on the patent info Mainer?

Thanks for posting the report and manual for these. I have two that came from a local auction and have also seen some on Ebay before. Until now I had no other info. That's why I love this forum. Wish I had more time to surf it. Can only imagine the good stuff I've missed. I talked to Mattracks about a dealership when they were only a fledgling company ten or more years ago. At that time they had just sent their first set to Yellowstone to demo. The owner told me the story of how his son invented them with a drawing of tracks on a vehicle. Maybe the boy saw the 20 year old manual for UNA Tracks and that inspired his sketch. They somehow got their patent to hold and have been fiercely defending it. I know they went after some of the ATV track kits originally but I see they are all still in business. It's a lot like the snowmobile kits for motorcycles. Every year a couple more people come up with one and think it is an original idea that is going to change the word. I have seven different kits for motorcycles, most from the early 60s and 70s. None of which worked worth a damn so the idea faded. Honda experimented in the 90s and scraped the idea. Indian had a kit in the early 50s for the vertical twin Scout. More power to anyone who wants to pioneer this type of thing, but we need better mousetraps, not just more. It will be interesting to see who's around 30 years from now.

There is a company in Japan that makes them too..

n-west.co.jp/sv/4x4hyper.html

But similar prices to Mattracks