Tour De France Winner's Drug Test...

What do you think? Did Floyd Landis dope? Or not.

I think it's sour grapes on the Frenchie's part.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5856990?FSO1&ATT=HMA

The Fox article above states his testosterone was way off the chart.
11:1 compared to a 4:1 limit.

Maybe they should check some atheletes other than those Frenchies when they are making the limits.

Then they'd have some real numbers to work with.

Him and his defense team is trying to question the testing method,
"And I'm beginning to wonder about this myself after the way the situation's been handled, is that after the (sample) leaves my hands ... after I give them the sample, I don't know where it goes."

There's so much politics in sports that I doubt the credibility of either side. Drug use and performance enhancement are institutionalized through out the history of sport. The illusion of the "purity" of the olympics or any even (pro or amateur) is all a facade. There is no such thing as a level playing field.

humor_me said:

What do you think? Did Floyd Landis dope?

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He's a cheater

They make it sound like even a Gatorade would skew the results.

Gatorboy said:

He's a cheater

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Yeah, I knew you wuz French.

I have a child, I want her to understand that there are rules and consequences to breaking the rules.


Pete Rose was a great athlete, amazing baseball player. He also, apparently had a gambling habit. There were rules and he broke them. He got banned from baseball. Now 10 or 15 years later people want Pete Rose in the Baseball Hall of Fame. In an ESPN poll the majority of voters want to see him in the Hall of Fame. Hmmm. He knew the rules. He broke the rules. Forget & forgive? Afterall rules are meant to be broken? WRONG. It was wrong to do what he did, he knew it when he did it, he did it anyway. There are consequences to his actions. If there are no consequences to breaking the rules, then I invite you all to go home and sit down with your children and tell them it is OK to break the rules. Let them know that you don't really mean it when you want them home by a certain hour. Let them know that they don't have to respect the law, or their teachers, or their elders. Heck let them know they don't have to listen to you.


Me, I believe that you should be held responsible for your actions.


Until Floyd Landis proves he is/was clean and gets the ruling overturned due to the outcome of his TWO tests, then he is not qualified to be called the winner. If Floyd Landis played by the rules then he would not be facing this plight. I don't prentend to know what he did, but he must have done something. Sorry Floyd. Next time (4 years from now when you are re-admitted) you might want to follow the rules a bit more closely.


You always know the right thing to do, the hard part is doing the right thing.

B_Skurka said:

I have a child, I want her to understand that there are rules and consequences to breaking the rules.


Pete Rose was a great athlete, amazing baseball player. He also, apparently had a gambling habit. There were rules and he broke them.

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Bob, I do agree with you to an extent. That being said, sometimes I question the rules.

Pete Rose was arguably one of the best players in baseball.

He lied, no excuses. He is not the first sports athlete to lie, or even break the rules.

When you have sports athletes nowadays continually (sp?) break the law, use illegal drugs, steroids, beat thier spouses, have illegal firearms and basically tell society that they "can do whatever they want" and then just have the sports organization body that they play for just "slap them on the wrist", well, something is wrong with our socitey (how many times have certain baseball players been arrested, time after time for drug use, and what happens to them?).

Just like college "big time sports", it's all about the money.

Personally, I think not having Pete Rose in the hall of fame is one of the biggest hypocracies (spelled VERY wrong I'm sure) and double standards in sports. You want to hold Pete Rose accountable, hold EVERY sports figure accountable.

dzalphakilo said:

Bob, I do agree with you to an extent. That being said, sometimes I question the rules . . .
You want to hold Pete Rose accountable, hold EVERY sports figure accountable.

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I'm happy to hold every one of them accountable. That is my point. The fact that some people are swayed by the cult of the personality or popularity of the athlete means nothing to me other than they are probably not teaching their children a good example. Me, I've been described as an unbending flagpole. When I stake my position it is very clear and unyielding.

I once had a discussion about capital punishment with one of my forement. I'm still not sure he knows what hit him. But when I suggested a few senarios he was all for capital punishment, until I laid out the senario where his mother was the hypothetical murderer. At that point he backed off. So I laid out a scenario where he felt capital punishment was appropriate, and then I said I was the hypothetical murderer. Again he backed away from his position. Hypocracy? Of course. Based on the cult of the other known factors of the individual. When applied to sports figures we only know about them what we know, which is actually very little. But if they were successful we often throw away the rule books and consider them to be better than they are.

Don't like my Pete Rose example? Fine, it was actually Johnny Bench who told it to me. I happened to be with him once and the topic came up. I learned something that day. So how about I propose OJ Simpson for the Football Hall of Fame. Or maybe 10 years from now, how about we sit down and discuss Tyrell Owens?

dzalphakilo said:

Personally, I think not having Pete Rose in the hall of fame is one of the biggest hypocracies (spelled VERY wrong I'm sure) and double standards in sports. You want to hold Pete Rose accountable, hold EVERY sports figure accountable.

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Bonds in
Rose out



His lies had no impact on the way he played the game ....... JMO

B_Skurka said:

I'm happy to hold every one of them accountable.

Don't like my Pete Rose example? Fine, it was actually Johnny Bench who told it to me. I happened to be with him once and the topic came up. I learned something that day. So how about I propose OJ Simpson for the Football Hall of Fame. Or maybe 10 years from now, how about we sit down and discuss Tyrell Owens?

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Problem is Bob, it's not up to you to hold them accountable, it's up to thier "sports bodies" to hold them accountable, which they don't. Heck, look at Mr. Cobb or Mr. Ruth. At what point do you "draw the line"? General society laws or laws or rules imposed by the sports bodies?

What if they don't break the sports bodies rules, but break the common laws of the land? What if they don't break any laws, but have social "issues"?

Where and why do you draw the line?

Hey, I happen to agree with you, that being said, hold Pete out, go through the list of who's in there (hall of fame) and start taking them out.

I like BD's example of Mr. Bonds.

Now, being a big philly fan, I'll be happy to see what Mr. TO can do in Dallas

Can you excuse some (sports stars) for being such genuine assholes? But then again, perhaps we as a society perpetuate thier (athletes) attitudes.

I think that the mistake people make is to assume that sports stars are NOT genuine assholes! They are human. If I can be an ass, then they can be asses too. That is fine with me, but don't think that I will hold them up as role models, which unfortunately too many people seem to do. Also, don't ask me to overlook the rules they break.

Again, if you know the rules, and you break the rules, you pay the price. It really is simple.

Now none of that has anything to being an asshole. Take a guy like Michael Jordan. Perhaps the best basketball player ever to walk the earth. He seemed to have a great marriage, wonderful family life, etc. Then the truth came out. However, under the rules of basketball, players are allowed to cheat on their wives, etc. So as far as the rules are concerned he can be in the hall of fame. He can also be considered an asshole by some. The two are not mutually exclusive. Pete Rose, great baseball player, should be in the baseball hall of fame, except he broke the baseball rules. Floyd Landis, apparently a great cyclist, but apparently she broke the rules. Rules are rules. I have nothing against him but I can't suggest that my child should look up to him as a role model.

B_Skurka said:

Now none of that has anything to being an asshole. .................... Floyd Landis, apparently a great cyclist, but apparently she broke the rules. Rules are rules. I have nothing against him but I can't suggest that my child should look up to him as a role model.

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Bob has found the answer............. He is a she and that is why the testosterone levels were so high...... gulp..... gulp.....

B_Skurka said:

I think that the mistake people make is to assume that sports stars are NOT genuine assholes! They are human.

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What about breaking laws of the society that you belong and live, but those laws are not incorporated by the sports governing body?

What if OJ Simpson was for some reason is found guilty of muder (a stretch I know)? Do you "expel" him from the hall of fame?

What if the laws of the governing sports body change?

Did Pete Roses gambling have an effect on outcomes of ballgames?

Did Pete Rose use his influence to determine the outcome of ballgames that would make himself money due to his gambling?

I honestly think Mr. Rose has/had a gambling problem. I don't understand it, but I do understand about some addictions. He is human. If we forgive others, why not him (Rose). I realize, per your comments, he broke the rules, period. Personally, I think he po'ed some of baseballs "governing body" personally and they are making a "statement" using Rose as an example (of coure, only my opinion, and most likely wrong!)

Tried looking for it, anyone know where to access the complete rules for the baseball hall of fame? (did not find the actual rules set forth by any committe).

B_Skurka said:

I think that the mistake people make is to assume that sports stars are NOT genuine assholes! They are human. If I can be an ass, then they can be asses too.

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Bob, you're a major leaguer in my book. Maybe even a candidite for the AH Hall of Fame.

Thinking about it, whatever happend to Gretzy's wife and that whole hockey "ordeal" per gamlbling? After they broke the story, seems like it died and went away.

And after thinking about it, perhaps Rose should not be in the hall of fame. He knew the rules, broke them, period.

One reason though why I was looking for those rules for the hall of fame. Is it gambling only on baseball or sports in general? How about illegal drugs? As mentioned, If Rose knew the rules, broke them, he knew the ramifications.

That being said, perhaps more rules should be in place.

dzalphakilo said:

That being said, perhaps more rules should be in place.

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I'd agree with stiffer rules etc. But the bigger problem I see, is that no matter how many rules are in place, the right names or right money always seems to slide by with a slap on the wrist [both within their proffesion and the courts].

As far as Rose, I have to commend the Baseball Hall of Fame in sticking to it's rules. However, I wish his were the biggest ethical [or legal for that matter] mistakes among those that people for some crazy reason idolize.

Back to Landis though:

He is either the biggest idiot of all time, or someone actually is screwing with him. Shoot up on synthetic testostorone, only to make a huge comeback [and if he didn't make up the time, shooting up wouldn't have been worth it in the first place], and not expect to get tested - and have it come back positive? Either idiot or victim. Personally, I'd have to flip a coin.

Spiffy1 said:

I'd agree with stiffer rules etc. But the bigger problem I see, is that no matter how many rules are in place, the right names or right money always seems to slide by with a slap on the wrist [both within their proffesion and the courts].
.

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Well, I've change my mind once per thinking of Bobs statement, perhaps someone can change my mind again

Can anyone tell me who in baseball (player) did not follow "the rules to get into the hall of fame of baseball" and still made it in?

How about any other sport?

Say if there are no rules that state you cannot be a murderer or convicted felon (well, I guess a muderer would be a felon), I guess you could make it in even if you did kill someone. Then again, would it matter? Are the rules for a "moral high ground" or to provide integrity to the sport? or what?

Thats why I was curious as to the actual rules set up by whatever committee baseball has.

Was the gambling rule or whatever you'd call it per baseball put in place due to the whitesox?

Perhaps the reson why I though Rose should of gotten in is because most pro sports seemed so F*&$ed up and corrupt and the "leauges" don't seem to have any control over it's players that perhaps they are just taking thier shave butt gonadless spinless egos out on Rose because they can (ok, got that off my chest). However, unless is someone can point to an example to my first question (about letting someone in who broke the rules, in any sport by the way), I'll still say Rose should not get in.

MAJOR LEAGUE RULES
Rule 21
MISCONDUCT

(a) MISCONDUCT IN PLAYING BASEBALL. Any player or person connected with a
club who shall promise or agree to lose, or to attempt to lose, or to fail
to give his best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with
which he is or may be in any way concerned; or who shall intentionally
fail to give his best efforts towards the winning of any such baseball
game, or who shall solicit or attempt to induce any player or person
connected with a club to lose, or attempt to lose, or to fail to give his
best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with which such
other player or person is or may be in any way connected; or who, being
solicited by any person, shall fail to inform his Major League President
and the Commissioner.

(b) GIFT FOR DEFEATING COMPETING CLUB. Any player or person connected
with a club who shall offer or give any gift or reward to a player or
person connected with another club for services rendered or supposed to
be or to have been rendered in defeating or attempting to defeat a
competing club, and any player or person connected with a club who
shall solicit or accept from a player connected with another club any
gifts or reward for any such services rendered, or supposed to have
been rendered, or who having been offered any such gift or reward,
shall fail to inform his League President or the Commissioner
immediately of such offer, and of all facts and circumstances therewith,
shall be declared ineligible for not less than three (3) years.

(c) GIFTS TO UMPIRES Any player or person connected with a club, who
shall give, or offer to give, any gift or reward to an umpire for services
rendered, or supposed to be or to have been rendered, in defeating or
attempting to defeat a competing club, or for the umpire's decision on
anything connected with the playing of a baseball game; and any umpire
who shall render, or promise or agree to render, any such decision
otherwise than on its merits, or who shall solicit or accept such gifts
or reward, or having been solicited to render any such decision
otherwise than on its merits, shall fail to inform the League President
or the Commissioner immediately of such offer or solicitation, and all
facts and circumstances therewith, shall be declared permanently ineligible.

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

(e) VIOLENCE OR MISCONDUCT IN INTERLEAGUE GAMES. In case of any physical
attack or other violence upon an umpire by a player, or by an umpire upon
a player, or of other misconduct by an umpire or a player, during or in
connection with any interleague Major League game or any exhibition game
of a Major League Club with a club or team not a member of the same league,
the Commissioner shall impose upon the offender or offenders such fine,
suspension, ineligibility or other penalty, as the facts may warrant in
the judgement of the Commissioner.

(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

(g) RULE TO BE KEPT POSTED. A printed copy of this Rule shall be kept
posted in each clubhouse.

I have not read all the posts but I bet the French do not have to worry about too much testosterone. Surrender monkies. Ooops, maybe the world would be a better place if every one was French. No war, lots of wine and pastries I cant pronunce. OO but the hairy armpits, I forgot about that. But alas I almost forgot what I was babbling on aobut. France wont be happy until some litttle testosterone free French boy wins. I am sorry I am usually not like this but the French get on my nerves.

Geez,
what did I start...

ah, just kidding. I did hear somewhere today they were not calling the war on terror a World War. This was because the French had not yet surrendered.

humor_me said:

What do you think? Did Floyd Landis dope? Or not.

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Sad if true....sour grapes if not