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Old 04-16-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default National Prayer Day Canceled



National Prayer Day Canceled

A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action.

U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote that the government can no more enact laws supporting a day of prayer than it can encourage citizens to fast during Ramadan, attend a synagogue or practice magic.

"In fact, it is because the nature of prayer is so personal and can have such a powerful effect on a community that the government may not use its authority to try to influence an individual's decision whether and when to pray," Crabb wrote.

Congress established the day in 1952 and in 1988 set the first Thursday in May as the day for presidents to issue proclamations asking Americans to pray. The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison-based group of atheists and agnostics, filed a lawsuit against the federal government in 2008 arguing the day violated the separation of church and state.

President Barack Obama's administration has countered that the statute simply acknowledges the role of religion in the United States. Obama issued a proclamation last year but did not hold public events with religious leaders as former President George W. Bush had done.

Crabb wrote that her ruling shouldn't be considered a bar to any prayer days until all appeals are exhausted. U.S. Justice Department attorneys who represented the federal government in the case were reviewing the ruling Thursday afternoon, agency spokesman Charles Miller said. He declined further comment.

Obama spokesman Matt Lehrich said in an e-mail to The Associated Press the president still plans to issue a proclamation for the next prayer day.

"As he did last year, President Obama intends to recognize a National Day of Prayer," Lehrich said.

The American Center for Law and Justice, which filed a friend of the court brief supporting the government on behalf of 31 members of Congress, called Crabb's ruling flawed and promised to back an appeal if one is filed.

"It is unfortunate that this court failed to understand that a day set aside for prayer for the country represents a time-honored tradition that embraces the First Amendment, not violates it," ACLJ Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow said in a statement.

The Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based group of Christian lawyers, issued a statement saying Crabb's ruling undermines American tradition dating back to the nation's birth.

Freedom From Religion Foundation attorney Richard Bolton didn't immediately return a message seeking comment.

Crabb wrote that her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer. She noted government involvement in prayer may be constitutional if the conduct serves a "significant secular purpose" and doesn't amount to a call for religious action. But the National Day of Prayer crosses that line, she wrote.

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," she wrote. "In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz0lIwYIen0

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Old 04-16-2010, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

Good call by the judge. Religion has no place in government whatsoever. If you disagree with that concept, just envision Sharia Law supporters demanding their fair share of government representation because Christians set the precident. Government must remain secular in order to ensure liberty and justice for all.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

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Good call by the judge. Religion has no place in government whatsoever. If you disagree with that concept, just envision Sharia Law supporters demanding their fair share of government representation because Christians set the precident. Government must remain secular in order to ensure liberty and justice for all.
What about Christmas? That is a religious holiday. Federal and state workers enjoy paid holiday each year for religion.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

Judge has bats in her belfry. Call is for a non specific day of prayer, christian, islamic, Buddhist Zento. Not the establishment of a religion as prohibited in the constitution.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

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What about Christmas? That is a religious holiday. Federal and state workers enjoy paid holiday each year for religion.
Why not a Ramadan holiday too?

Or Hanukkah?

Or ____________________? ( insert any other disenfranchised religious holiday)

Just envision the possibility of an Islamic majority in America. Slim chance? Maybe not. All they have to get is a large enough voting block to force the issue.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

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What about Christmas? That is a religious holiday. Federal and state workers enjoy paid holiday each year for religion.
Actually, the law is written so that it is a secular holiday.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:55 PM
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Actually, the law is written so that it is a secular holiday.
It should be renamed Giftmas for a more secular ring to match the law.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

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Why not a Ramadan holiday too?

Or Hanukkah?

Or ____________________? ( insert any other disenfranchised religious holiday)

Just envision the possibility of an Islamic majority in America. Slim chance? Maybe not. All they have to get is a large enough voting block to force the issue.
Having just returned from California, I'm wondering why they haven't been sued into oblivion by hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants. CA clearly caters to Spanish speaking people in a major way. However, there are several hundred languages spoken by the residents of California. Why only cater to Spanish speaking residents? There is a rather large contingent of Asian and even Russian people there. Why aren't signs in English and their language as well? They are only in English and Spanish just like where I live. It's not religion, but it is the government choosing to cater to one particular group over other groups of people.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Cancelled

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Having just returned from California, I'm wondering why they haven't been sued into oblivion by hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants. CA clearly caters to Spanish speaking people in a major way. However, there are several hundred languages spoken by the residents of California. Why only cater to Spanish speaking residents? There is a rather large contingent of Asian and even Russian people there. Why aren't signs in English and their language as well? They are only in English and Spanish just like where I live. It's not religion, but it is the government choosing to cater to one particular group over other groups of people.

D. Amfino. Maybe, they're afraid if they sue they wind up in possession and have to pay the bills?
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

Hey, I have an idea, pray anyway. That will fix them. I am not kidding.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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Hey, I have an idea, pray anyway. That will fix them. I am not kidding.
There ya go. No government involvement or mandate required. The answer really is that simple. Total and complete separation.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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There ya go. No government involvement or mandate required. The answer really is that simple. Total and complete separation.
I'll go along with that, but then make them rules to all religions.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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I'll go along with that, but then make them rules to all religions.
100% agreement for a 100% secular government.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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100% agreement for a 100% secular government.

And that is never going to happen in this county. We have kicked the Christians out of government, kicked them out of schools and even off school grounds but yet we have special places in the schools for the muslims to worship at. Totally unfair and hypocritical as we are afraid to insult them.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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And that is never going to happen in this county. We have kicked the Christians out of government, kicked them out of schools and even off school grounds but yet we have special places in the schools for the muslims to worship at. Totally unfair and hypocritical as we are afraid to insult them.
The first step in "kicking" the Muslims out of government is to kick the Christians out. One religion cannot be allowed and others excluded. Any religion within government is a problem. 100% secularism is the only reasonable answer.

Now I would like to see evidence of official government policy where these Muslims are allowed to do things Christians are not.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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The first step in "kicking" the Muslims out of government is to kick the Christians out. One religion cannot be allowed and others excluded. Any religion within government is a problem. 100% secularism is the only reasonable answer.

Now I would like to see evidence of official government policy where these Muslims are allowed to do things Christians are not.
I suspect that you would find this in certain Minneapolis schools where they have very large Muslim populations.

Otherwise, I agree. No need for any religion or either side to be officially supported in government. I'm fine with getting all holidays out of schools too. No need for Halloween, Dead Presidents Days, or Veterans Days either. Just teach the basics and skip all the extra stuff.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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I suspect that you would find this in certain Minneapolis schools where they have very large Muslim populations.
Evidence is quite different than "suspecting" wouldn't you agree?

If there is official government policy that allows any religious practice whatsoever in a government institution, then that's a major problem.

Is that the case, or are we simply assuming here?
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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Evidence is quite different than "suspecting" wouldn't you agree?

If there is official government policy that allows any religious practice whatsoever in a government institution, then that's a major problem.

Is that the case, or are we simply assuming here?
Suspecting is fairly close to assuming.

Looks like public money goes towards Muslim Charter schools:

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3829

Hoever, I'm sure there is tons more public money that goes to Christian Charter schools.

In case, you aren't picking up on it. I am agreeing with you.
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

I bet the founders in their wildest dreams couldn't have imagined how something
as simple as the bill of rights could be so misconstrued. Written in plain English so
simple a fourth grader could grasp it, yet for years those words have been twisted
beyond recognition.
1:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
How in the hell can celebrating anything, holiday, Christmas, Hanukkah, Ramadan, or a day of prayer be construed as Congress establishing a religion? I see a lot of prohibiting going on though, that little tidbit like much of the constitution seems to have been forgotten.
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: National Prayer Day Canceled

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Originally Posted by RedRocker View Post
I bet the founders in their wildest dreams couldn't have imagined how something
as simple as the bill of rights could be so misconstrued. Written in plain English so
simple a fourth grader could grasp it, yet for years those words have been twisted
beyond recognition.
1:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
How in the hell can celebrating anything, holiday, Christmas, Hanukkah, Ramadan, or a day of prayer be construed as Congress establishing a religion? I see a lot of prohibiting going on though, that little tidbit like much of the constitution seems to have been forgotten.
exactly..
according to the Declaration of Indepenance:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

the reason that they included God, was so that there would be no question if the Govt. could take away those rights.
What the Govt. gives it can take away, but something given by God, only God can take away.
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