City Gov. plays politics: treats Tea Party & Occupy differently

Melensdad · Oct 28, 2011

When a local group of residents wanted to hold a 1 day event in Richmond, Virginia they were told they needed to pay $8000 in fees/insurance and security.

When another group of residents wanted to hold an open-ended protest in Richmond, VA they were not required to pay for insurance, pay any fees, nor pay for their own security.

The difference between the 2 groups? One group was the local TEA PARTY group and the other is the local "OCCUPY" group. And yes, you guessed correctly, its the one day Tea Party event from which the city of Richmond extracted $8000 in fees. But they same city seems to be allowing the Occupy group free use of the same space, seems to be providing free security for the group, and seems to be requiring no permits.

WTF :glare:

FROM CBS NEWS: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2011/10/27/tea-party-to-mayor-make-occupy-richmond-pay-up/

RICHMOND, Va. (CBS Washington) – The Richmond Tea Party is accusing Mayor Dwight Jones of taking a soft stance against the “Occupy Richmond” protesters and is demanding that the group pay up.

After nearly three weeks of protests and overnight stays in Kanawha Plaza, the Richmond Tea Party is about to send Jones a bill for about $8,000 on the basis that “Occupy Richmond” has been using the area illegally and for free.

Richmond Tea Party spokeswoman Colleen Owens told CBS Washington that the protesters have been given special treatment and free reign of the park and have not had to comply with the strict liability and security provisions that the city required of a Tea Party Tax Day in 2009.

As the person in charge of the 2009 event, Owens said Richmond officials dictated the number of police and emergency personnel they were required to have on site and required a $1 million liability policy to protect the city. Owens said that when a Tea Party member decided to call the mayor’s office to see if the protesters had required any of the necessary permits for the park, the city said that “Occupy Richmond” didn’t have any requirements for them to protest and stay overnight in Kanawha Plaza.

“We’re forced to comply with the laws, but yet they don’t have to,” she said. “That’s such a blatantly unequal application of the laws.”

Jones, who is scheduled to meet with “Occupy Richmond” protesters today, is accused of being too lenient with the group, which has expanded in size since it was formed to follow suit with “Occupy Wall Street.” The difference in perception between the two groups, as well as Jones’ background of being a child of the 1960s. . .

Cowboy · Oct 28, 2011

And they acctually expect to get their money back . :whistling:

From the same article. "The Tea Party hopes to send an invoice to Jones’ office by tomorrow or Monday."

SShepherd · Oct 28, 2011

so, the TEA party group should sue the city for discrimination...either waive the fee or kick out the OWS group

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Oct 28, 2011

Same thing here in Portland, OR

Double standards galore!

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

This seems to be a rather antithicial response from the supposedly law and order Tea Party. Wouldn't such and upstanding and honorable organiztion want to do the right thing? heck, I would have expected them to pay even if not asked, least from what they say about themselves. this is exactly like little Johnny crying cause little Jimmy got extra candy. Come on, you Tea partiers have to be a little embaressed?

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Oct 28, 2011

The Tea Party believes in fairness - which it wants to be uniformly applied to all citizens equally.

The hypocrisy of the 99% movement's core goals is obviously lost on the likes of you.

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
This seems to be a rather antithicial response from the supposedly law and order Tea Party. Wouldn't such and upstanding and honorable organiztion want to do the right thing? heck, I would have expected them to pay even if not asked, least from what they say about themselves. this is exactly like little Johnny crying cause little Jimmy got extra candy. Come on, you Tea partiers have to be a little embaressed?

I believe thtis the point. The are doing the right thing.

I donot believe the moneyto be the issue for a seond. But, under the constitution we all havethe samerights and are to be respected in our activities by our govenrnment with equanimity.

Whether you are a Nazi hate group or aveterans support charity, the fee for a parade, the requirements for insurance liabilities and bonding should be equal.

Or not exist at all. After all, it is a right of free speech that should not be infringed, simply because you wish to redress greivances.

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

Do you mean cooperative social relations? That has to be the most socialist statment I have heard for a while. And what cho mean, "the likes of me?" Do you really think you are that smart? All I see you do is give me negative reps and insult me. yea, the likes of me. :yum:

PBinWA said:
The Tea Party believes in fairness - which it wants to be uniformly applied to all citizens equally.The hypocrisy of the 99% movement's core goals is obviously lost on the likes of you.

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

Sure, but the Tea party is not demanding OWS pay, they are asking for their money back. See the differnece? Kinda, come on, you do, right?

FrancSevin said:
I believe thtis the point. The are doing the right thing.

I donot believe the moneyto be the issue for a seond. But, under the constitution we all havethe samerights and are to be respected in our activities by our govenrnment with equanimity.

Whether you are a Nazi hate group or aveterans support charity, the fee for a parade, the requirements for insurance liabilities and bonding should be equal.

Ornot exist at all. After all, it is a right of free speech that should not be infringed.

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
Do you mean cooperative social relations? That has to be the most socialist statment I have heard for a while. And what cho mean, "the likes of me?" Do you really think you are that smart? All I see you do is give me negative reps and insult me. yea, the likes of me.

Where do you get "cooperative social relations?" PWin WA said no such thing here. So you inject it and then argue against it?

Please, debate honestly.

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
Sure, but the Tea party is not demanding OWS pay, they are asking for their money back. See the differnece? Kinda, come on, you do, right?

Surmise what you want from that.

But, in legal terms one cannot ask for something that is not theirs anymore than you can sue unless monetarily damaged. The TEA's were demanded a fee that others were not. The only money on the table is what was unfairly taken from them.

The TEA's left no trash, destroyed no property, did not cause the authorities or the police to incur added expenses. Cannot say that about the "Occupy" protesters.

Both were excercising the exact same political rights. The disparity is abundant.

Reasonable men of good conscience can see the this.

franc

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Oct 28, 2011

FrancSevin said:
Please, debate honestly.

Unfortunately, mak2 has proven unable to do this. Time and time again.

Melensdad · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
This seems to be a rather antithicial response from the supposedly law and order Tea Party. Wouldn't such and upstanding and honorable organiztion want to do the right thing? heck, I would have expected them to pay even if not asked, least from what they say about themselves. this is exactly like little Johnny crying cause little Jimmy got extra candy. Come on, you Tea partiers have to be a little embaressed?

As previously noted, the Tea Party is about FAIRNESS and its pretty obvious that they have been treated unfairly.

mak2 said:
Sure, but the Tea party is not demanding OWS pay, they are asking for their money back. See the differnece? Kinda, come on, you do, right?

Further the Tea Party is about government OVER REACH and rather than pushing for the OCCUPY group to be forced to pay (which then provides defacto or tacit support for government over reach) so in the theory that the Tea Party wants less government it seems like they are acting true to their ideals to simply ask for a refund. Honestly I'm not sure why you didn't seem to grasp this point, it seems pretty obvious.

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

PBinWA said:
Unfortunately, mak2 has proven unable to do this. Time and time again.

The typical cacoethes of liberals and Progressives. Suggesting their persistant and unscratchable itch that nothing can be right or wrong. That somehow, what is obviously dead wrong can be debated and rationalized as true.

Thus allowing the gormless logic and irrefutable evidence of a formaly unbelievable ability to prove,,,,,,, that a turd can be picked up by the clean end.

franc

Catavenger · Oct 28, 2011

Mak is trolling again I see, well I won't post anything mean I will just leave a little symbol of what I think of his post :toiletpap

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

FrancSevin said:
Where do you get "cooperative social relations?" PWin WA said no such thing here. So you inject it and then argue against it?

Please, debate honestly.

It's not fair, whaaaaa.

jimbo · Oct 28, 2011

The Richmond Tea Party has sent the city a bill seeking recovery of the funds spent over the past years for tea party events. I doubt that anybody expects to get their money back, nor, in the end, few would expect the Occupy groups to be charged or required to obey the laws. The city was aware of the planned Occupy takeover of Kanawha at least a week prior to the event, and made no attempt to stop it. Aside from not posting bond, obtaining the permits, paying for the sanitation and security, the Occupy could never have been issued a permit as there is no overnight camping allowed in the park, and permits are time sensitive.

The whole point is the unequal treatment of the two groups. While it is permitted to set guidelines for protest, all should have equal treatment, and that is the point. Clearly a double standard.

Fom the Occupy site: The mayor speaking

It’s a national movement … it’s not a local issue and we’ve been reading about it all over the country. I’m a child of civil rights and believe in people being able to exercise their First Amendment rights, and the ability to protest. I have been lenient in terms of discretion as it relates to the people who are there. I am going to go there tomorrow. My staff has been there, but I am going to go there tomorrow to meet with the leaders of Occupy Richmond to figure out where we go from here.
Now when I say I recognize First Amendment rights, I also recognize that now I’m mayor of Richmond, and I have a responsibility to enforce the law. And even though I’ve used discretion and tried to balance First Amendment rights with discretion of enforcing the law, there comes a point where that discretion has got to be tempered, and something will have to change. So, that’s where we are right now.

Note that there is no mention of the invoice or any mention of any attempt to bring the Occupy movement into line with established policy.

Update, the mayor did visit the site, spoke with the leaders, nothing changed.

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

The guys are right MAK2, A troll. Thus making his comments nothing but drivebys of absolutely no redeeming value.

A Dunsel. A useless item on a starship

A MacGuffin. An otherwise meaningless object in a film or book that provides the motivation for the action; a flimsy excuse for an action.

It's OK then. We all could use something useless to do. :brows:

Besides, I like playing dodgeball. So go ahead Mak2

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

jimbo said:
The Richmond Tea Party has sent the city a bill seeking recovery of the funds spent over the past years for tea party events. I doubt that anybody expects to get their money back, nor, in the end, few would expect the Occupy groups to be charged or required to obey the laws. The city was aware of the planned Occupy takeover of Kanawha at least a week prior to the event, and made no attempt to stop it. Aside from not posting bond, obtaining the permits, paying for the sanitation and security, the Occupy could never have been issued a permit as there is no overnight camping allowed in the park, and permits are time sensitive.

The whole point is the unequal treatment of the two groups. While it is permitted to set guidelines for protest, all should have equal treatment, and that is the point. Clearly a double standard.
So apparently if you are on the left advocating th overthrow ofthe sytem, you have a riht todo so for free.

If, on the other hand, you are advocatingsupport for the system,you are obligated to pay for the right to do so.

Fom the Occupy site: The mayor speaking

It’s a national movement … it’s not a local issue and we’ve been reading about it all over the country. I’m a child of civil rights and believe in people being able to exercise their First Amendment rights, and the ability to protest. I have been lenient in terms of discretion as it relates to the people who are there. I am going to go there tomorrow. My staff has been there, but I am going to go there tomorrow to meet with the leaders of Occupy Richmond to figure out where we go from here.
Now when I say I recognize First Amendment rights, I also recognize that now I’m mayor of Richmond, and I have a responsibility to enforce the law. And even though I’ve used discretion and tried to balance First Amendment rights with discretion of enforcing the law, there comes a point where that discretion has got to be tempered, and something will have to change. So, that’s where we are right now.

Note that there is no mention of the invoice or any mention of any attempt to bring the Occupy movement into line with established policy.

Update, the mayor did visit the site, spoke with the leaders, nothing changed.

Not at all confusing when you consider what the "occupy" folks are saying here. That the same producing group which is asked to pay for the radical left's ability to demostrate their desire to tear down the system is also to be tasked with the responsibility to pay for their own right to complain about it.

IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT? :wow:

franc

SShepherd · Oct 28, 2011

FrancSevin said:
The typical cacoethes of liberals and Progressives. Suggesting their persistant and unscratchable itch that nothing can be right or wrong. That somehow, what is obviously dead wrong can be debated and rationalized as true.

Thus allowing the gormless logic and irrefutable evidence of a formaly unbelievable ability to prove,,,,,,, that a turd can be picked up by the clean end.

franc

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
It's not fair, whaaaaa.

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin

jimbo · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
It's not fair, whaaaaa.

Mak, how can you possibly believe that there is anything fair about setting up double standards between groups in exercising their 1st amendment rights? This is nothing new, if I were to arm myself, stand in front of a polling place in military issue garb, and intimidate voters, I would go to jail. Yet, the Obama administration dismissed that case after they had won it. Equal treatment is guaranteed under the laws of the land. Mayor Jones needs to assess fines equal to the cost of the demonstration, close the plaza, and arrest those violating the law.

Kane · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
It's not fair, whaaaaa.

Your avatar, mak2, shows a bunch of men dressed in Marine garb raising an old flag over Mount Suribachi. Sometimes I wonder if you really understand the significance of it all.

As far as the Tea Party is concerned, we can guaranty you that they hold the same courage, love of country and would willing make the sacrifices necessary to raise that flag again.

Now let's ask the brats occupying Wall Street to do it. (yeah, right. sound of many feet running in the other direction)

So no, it's not fair.

.

mdaniels4 · Oct 28, 2011

Kane said:
Your avatar, mak2, shows a bunch of men dressed in Marine garb raising an old flag over Mount Suribachi. Sometimes I wonder if you really understand the significance of it all.

As far as the Tea Party is concerned, we can guaranty you that they hold the same courage, love of country and would willing make the sacrifices necessary to raise that flag again.

Now let's ask the brats occupying Wall Street to do it. (yeah, right. sound of many feet running in the other direction)

So no, it's not fair.

.

Gosh it's nice to hear a familiar voice! beginning to think I was just going to be talking to myself-which BTW has been known to happen. Nice to see you Kane. Mark

JEV · Oct 28, 2011

FrancSevin said:
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin

Be careful with challenging mak2, he's a professor, which makes him part of the intelligentsia, which we all know means ...pretty much nothing. :yum:

This is where he goes into his tirade about my hatred for higher edumakashun. And, agin, he would be wrong. "Bring it on, mak2."

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mdaniels4 said:
Gosh it's nice to hear a familiar voice! beginning to think I was just going to be talking to myself-which BTW has been known to happen. Nice to see you Kane. Mark

Good to see you here as well Mark,

Franc

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

PBinWA said:
The Tea Party believes in fairness - which it wants to be uniformly applied to all citizens equally.

The hypocrisy of the 99% movement's core goals is obviously lost on the likes of you.

There is often a difference between fairness and doing the right thing. If the OWS should legally pay a fee to protest, they should. But a self rightous outfit like the TP should want to do the right thing and pay the required fees. Even if they are the only one that does it. I guess honor and ethics are lost on the likes of you. (ethically you should do what is right wether anyone else does or not.)

PBinWA said:
Unfortunately, mak2 has proven unable to do this. Time and time again.

FrancSevin said:
The typical cacoethes of liberals and Progressives. Suggesting their persistant and unscratchable itch that nothing can be right or wrong. That somehow, what is obviously dead wrong can be debated and rationalized as true.

Thus allowing the gormless logic and irrefutable evidence of a formaly unbelievable ability to prove,,,,,,, that a turd can be picked up by the clean end.

franc

franc, you are not the all knowing possessor of truth. One of the sure signs of not being too bright is thinking everyone who disagrees with you is stupid or has character flaws.

Catavenger said:
Mak is trolling again I see, well I won't post anything mean I will just leave a little symbol of what I think of his post

TP, how appropriate. Anyone who disagrees with you guys is a troll.

FrancSevin said:
The guys are right MAK2, A troll. Thus making his comments nothing but drivebys of absolutely no redeeming value.

A Dunsel. A useless item on a starship

A MacGuffin. An otherwise meaningless object in a film or book that provides the motivation for the action; a flimsy excuse for an action.

It's OK then. We all could use something useless to do.

Besides, I like playing dodgeball. So go ahead Mak2

FrancSevin said:
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin

How bout some original thought. Geeze.

jimbo said:
Mak, how can you possibly believe that there is anything fair about setting up double standards between groups in exercising their 1st amendment rights? This is nothing new, if I were to arm myself, stand in front of a polling place in military issue garb, and intimidate voters, I would go to jail. Yet, the Obama administration dismissed that case after they had won it. Equal treatment is guaranteed under the laws of the land. Mayor Jones needs to assess fines equal to the cost of the demonstration, close the plaza, and arrest those violating the law.

I dont think I have even said fair since I have been a grown up.

Kane said:
Your avatar, mak2, shows a bunch of men dressed in Marine garb raising an old flag over Mount Suribachi. Sometimes I wonder if you really understand the significance of it all.

As far as the Tea Party is concerned, we can guaranty you that they hold the same courage, love of country and would willing make the sacrifices necessary to raise that flag again.

Now let's ask the brats occupying Wall Street to do it. (yeah, right. sound of many feet running in the other direction)

So no, it's not fair.

.

You just passed the point of being funny. They were not just dressed in Marine garb, they were Marines. Do I understand the signifigance? Who the hell do you think you are? Actually, this is far more comment than you are worthy of. what a piece.

Now you have all protected you widdle buddy PB, very cute. Now lets try to get back on topic. I am not the topic.

jimbo · Oct 28, 2011

"There is often a difference between fairness and doing the right thing. If the OWS should legally pay a fee to protest, they should. But a self rightous outfit like the TP should want to do the right thing and pay the required fees. Even if they are the only one that does it. I guess honor and ethics are lost on the likes of you. (ethically you should do what is right wether anyone else does or not.)"

There is never a difference between fairness and doing the right thing. Fairness is the right thing. Believing that the TP party should pay the required fees whether or not the other side does is correct, and they did, here and in other cities. The notion that the other side should be allowed to break the laws, extend their welcome, and not pay the fees is justified because of the belief that the other side is are doing the right thing is librospeak for the end justifies the means.

mak2 · Oct 28, 2011

I never once said they should be allowed to break the law. The rest of that libospeak stuff doesnt make a lot of sense. Got nuthin, huh?

FrancSevin · Oct 28, 2011

mak2 said:
franc, you are not the all knowing possessor of truth. One of the sure signs of not being too bright is thinking everyone who disagrees with you is stupid or has character flaws.

.

I am of an age where my experience gives me sage enough to know that I know very little of what there is to know.. However, of what I have observed in 65 years of Schoolin' and a rather full life, I will publish. I am not so pompus as to selfishly keep it to myself.

It is anyone's to take or leave. Respectful folks are kind enough to pick what they want and not complain about the rest.

As to your Sanctamonious judgement;
I never used the word "stupid" yet you again interject you own value upon my words and then argue against it.
Bad form pal.
I believe we have spoken of this earlier.

Anyone, whether educated at Harvard or home school can have cogent thoughts. And they can evaluate those of another. And speak of it.
That's called conversation. Thoughtful people can do it without harm.
Sometimes they actually learn something useful.

If your ego is going to write checks here, just be sure your mind can cash them Okay?

We'll be fine.

franc

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