Should I rent my Panama Home ???

I been kicking around the idea of vacation renting my Panama Home , when my wife and I are in the states . Lately we have been quite busy building the ranch back up in Idaho and I doubt we will even get down there this year . It seems like a real waste of such a nice place . It is 7000 plus square feet and built for entertaining and having fun . It has it own lagoon and reef out front .
The problem is we had all the furniture handmade and I am real nervous about damage .
Places like this rent for $1500-$2500 a week plus, but the dining room table is $6500 alone not including the hand carved beds which I can't even put a price on . I would love to have it generate a income but the other side of me says "don't do it" .
Property management companys are a joke down there and do very little . My Secretary is so busy with my School Charity that I doubt she would have enough time to take it on too . Anybody else rent out a vacation home ???

When we first bought our home in Florida, we rented it out for about three years, the house is nothing fancy, it was seven years old when we bought it. 1640 square feet with a screen enclosed pool, either a three or four bedroom, it was rented out as a four bedroom. We converted the room in question to an office now.

Every winter when we went down there, we were replacing dishes, silverware, towels, washclothes, dishcloths, dishtowels and lots of bedding. We were also constantly touching up all the painted surfaces. We would get down there and there would be a hole in a door and no one would know what happened, this is one of the items that was supposed to be charged to the renters. We had a nice set of floor cushions just disapear. We had a set of chair cushions for one of the pool chairs go AWOL. They said it was there at the office after being fixed but never came back and they later admited to knowing nothing about it.

When they put in the gas pool heater, who ever did it, cut the sprinkler lines, cut the cable tv line, they also cut the controls and the water line for the solar heater. Was able to get them to fix the cable and the sprinkler syster. They denied ever damaging anything. They said that the solar heater never worked. The home inspector checked the solar heater the month before and it worked. Found the break for the solar line right about the gas line, so what do you think? The control lines for the solar heaters were cut in the same place.

I had planted about fifteen orange and other citrus trees in the back yard, the lawn people managed to kill over half of them with the weed trimmers.

I always ended up paying for the real estate taxes and insurance out of my own pocket. So in 1984 when we were down there and reviewing the statements and I ended up kicking in 500 for keeping things going plus the taxes and insurance, I told them to take a hike.

We did rent it out to a cousin of my nephew in 2004, a nice responsible guy with a family. Now ever time that I use one of the crooked knives of the nice cutlery we purchased, I am reminded of that.

I am sure that I missed quite a few of the other items that do not come to mine right now.

The first year we owned it they said we needed a new vacuum, well we replaced the bag and it worked fine. Must of lost something in the translation with one of the non English speaking maids.

In summary, do not do it, it will cause you more problems and grief than you can imangine. If you can afford such a fine home as a second, you can do without a little rent which will cost you more in repairs and other costs than the rent that you will receive.

Did I mention that I do not recommend renting it our.

Finally, I would not rent it out.

Thanks for the input . My wife feels pretty much the same way as you . Everything that comes to the island ,must come by canoe . There is no Hardware Store to run down to ,to get a replacement part . I guess we just need to make time to use it more . I have put some feelers out on just selling it , but I know the minute I do , I will regret it . I love the place but that 10 hour plane ride really sucks ,to get there .

Nice homes make for lousy rentals. The only successful rental should be a place that you would never live in or want to yourself. It is much too hard to control long distance rentals. Many property management business are not that great either. Please do not inquire how much it cost me to learn this lesson in life.

No. Loan it to family and really close friends. That way at least someone can enjoy it when you are not there and the wear and tear shouldn't bother you as much.

By the way, I am available for adoption.

We are contemplating selling our Florida home. In addition to the value of the investment, it costs about 900 per month to keep it going. That works out to over 100 per day in operating costs for each day that we use it. We could take some nice winter vacations with that kind of cash. In addition to keeping the farm going, the house in town and the Florida house, it gets to be to much. Once the Florida market comes back a little, it will be gone, the house it town will be gone and a nice house will appear at the farm.

REDDOGTWO said:

That works out to over 100 per day in operating costs for each day that we use it. We could take some nice winter vacations with that kind of cash.

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I've seriously looked at buying a condo or house in Florida, the Caribbean and Central America. Been down there every year, every year we look to buy something. About the 4th or 5th day we realize the same thing we always realize.

• We won't spend enough time there
• We will feel obligated to go back there, and miss out on other places
• Renting is not a desirable thing unless the property is purchased as a rental for the purpose of renting. But renting someplace you call home is a disaster of some sort waiting to happen.

REDDOGTWO said:

We are contemplating selling our Florida home. In addition to the value of the investment, it costs about 900 per month to keep it going. That works out to over 100 per day in operating costs for each day that we use it. We could take some nice winter vacations with that kind of cash.

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Thats also a great point . We spend about $1100 a month having a Secretary and 2 full time gardens on the place . Otherwise the jungle would take it over in a few months .

And as Bob S. has said , You feel a obligation to go there when vacation time comes . I too have many other places in this big world I want to visit besides Panama .
We may eventually retire there someday fulltime ,but that is at least 5 years away .

BigAl said:

We may eventually retire there someday fulltime ,but that is at least 5 years away .

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That was our thought to, retire there someday. But a quiet four lane highway out front when we bought the place is going to be busy six lanes by the time we get down there next time.

The place we like best is the shed at the farm. Only one bedroom, but someday we will build a house there.

REDDOGTWO said:

The place we like best is the shed at the farm. Only one bedroom, but someday we will build a house there.

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Thats the way it is with us . Panama is remote and you got to love the island life . Also there is no motorize travel on the island and I really like that . You go by boat or walk . It sure gets you in shape in a hurry .I love it when I am there ,but hate the flying time to get there .
But the old Idaho Ranch has really grabbed our hearts and there is nothing like laying in bed and hearing Elk calves ,Elk Mothers and Bull Elk talking all night in the front pasture . They are so comfortable with us now that they sleep right out front . Its an amazing sight to get up to use the restroom and see 40-70 Elk lying down in the front pasture . I catch myself just staring into the moonlight and watching them . Its our smallest home at about 1400 sq feet but it just feels right ,when we are there .I have finally completed the remodel of it so its our home now . We tried to put the personal touches into it ,to make it just right . It may just be another old Ranch house to some people but it sure feels like home to me .

You certainly are lucky with the elk. All we have are deer and turkey.

Your home in Panama sounds absolutely beautiful. I personally would not rent it nor lend it to family or close friends. Nobody takes care of your home the way you would. Whether you intend to rent or sell your home, my suggestion would be to find a board certified attorney or their equivalent to take care of the details.

Motan

Motan,

Welcome to the forum.
Start a thread and tell us about yourself.

Motan said:

I personally would not rent it nor lend it to family or close friends. Nobody takes care of your home the way you would.

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Hmmm, I wouldn't say that's 100% true.

When I take the family on vacations, more often than not we rent a house instead of getting a hotel. I always do things to fix the place up and have always left it in better shape than when I got there. It could be things like replacing light bulbs or fixing doors or whatever. The last time I rented, the owner was around. He and I did lots of work on the house together including:
Building a privacy fence
Fixing a cracked tile in the pool (underwater)
Install doorstops everywhere (due to others whipping a door open and putting holes in the walls).
Fixed holes in walls (from door handles)
Repaired a leak in the ice maker of the freezer
...
Oh, I don't mind doing this stuff and it sure beats the heck out of going to see Mickey Mouse everyday.

I then referred a friend to rent this particular house. He called the owner and said that I referred them. The owner said if you're anything like me, it's yours, deposit not required and also gave a discount.

Here is a possible solution:

Your home is a large high-end home. Lease it only to high achievers such as attorneys, doctors, and business owners who will respect a property owner who is clearly an achiever like them. These type people will gladly pay more than the average price to rent a villa that is a fraction of the size of yours. 7000 FT2 is a massive sized home by anyones standards. Market it only to those who can afford to rent it for $5,000 per week minimum. These high end clients will respect you because they will see you as the same type of person as they are; that is, people who have worked hard and smart over the years and have property to show for it.

You already have people looking after your property that you trust to keep it maintained. They can watch over your property and call you if there is a problem. If you are renting only to carefully selected clients, you will have few problems and make more money with fewer clients. It all comes down to smart management.

That is what I would do if I owned a property like yours.

That sounds like a very intriguing suggestion CB. If I has a place like that I do believe I would strongly consider just that.

I don't believe the "high-end" solution would work. Most of the people that I have met like that don't care about stuff because they have money to fix it should something happen. Most of them would also say, we'll I'm paying 5k for this week, I don't care what happens they are making the money to fix it.

jwstewar said:

I don't believe the "high-end" solution would work. Most of the people that I have met like that don't care about stuff because they have money to fix it should something happen. Most of them would also say, we'll I'm paying 5k for this week, I don't care what happens they are making the money to fix it.

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Those people you are speaking of are not the same class of people I am referring to. Do you honestly believe a business owner, attorney or surgeon or other successful professional would risk their reputation and security deposit trashing someones home?

Professional property management practices in this case would prevent this type of infantile behavior. The properties my family vacations in at Sanibel Island, for example, would never tolerate such behavior and these childish tenants would face civil and legal consequences for the damage they caused.

The bottom line is there is a right way to professionally manage your property, and there are wrong ways. The right way takes planning and well written lease agreements and will be profitable for the owner. Just like renting any other property. Landlords who try to save a buck by avoiding spending the money to perform credit and background checks on prospective tenants before leasing their rental property end up on a message board somewhere crying the blues. Successful landlords take simple steps to avoid these problems.

It can be done sucessfully. Or, you can talk yourself out of it by listening to all the naysayers who likely do not own an investment property, or if they do, had a bad experience because they tried to save money by not using a competent property management firm to represent their interests and and utilizing proven management practices.

Regardless, Big Al should weigh the facts and get opinions from people who have sucessfully done what he is considering doing, AND seek the council of an experienced investment real estate attorney. FF is a good source of opinions, but I would certainly dig deeper for more facts elsewhere before coming to any conclusions.

Cityboy, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes, while true I don't own any investment property, I still don't think I am wrong. These people care about their stuff (sometimes), but don't give a shit about anyone else's. And like like you said, Opinions are just that. They are like assholes - everyone has one or is one.

Just realized that I never followed up on this to let you know my decision .

After spending March, April and the first part of May of 2008 at the place in Panama , I decided I could not do it .I just love that place too much . One evening the wife walked out on the deck and I was shaking my head without even knowing it . When she asked "what was I thinking so hard about?" I realized that I had been thinking about having to store our personal belongings if we did rent it out as a vacation home . I like having all my cloths in my closet ready for me when we arrive . It just was not worth it too me at any price .

So we ended up adding 3 bedrooms and another bathroom downstairs so now we are ready to do some serious entertaining with our family and friends . We were fortunate and had three different groups of close friends come down to vacation with us .

I even got moviated and finished up the railings and deck tile . It sure changed the looks of the old place .
The wife kept the gardeners busy planting flowers and we have a new type of yellow flowered clover growing in the front that is salt water resistance that has really taken off . It will be quite a contast with the "pink" Papas Grass that we planted

I doubt it will be 5 years before we move there and use it as our new "Home Base" . Probably more like 2 years .

Bob S . is sure right about feeling an obligation to be there when we Vacation ,but with Tocumen International Airport in Panama City now serving the Orient and Europe as well as South America with Direct Flights , I think it will work with all our future travel plans . For now we will use the place about 3-4 months out of the year .

good call!
sounds great and what the pic shows of the place looks good.