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Do you run a gas/alcohol mix in your vehicles?

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Unless you're one of the lucky ones who have a station that still sells pure gasoline, you do. Some states do not require clear labeling; rest assured you are getting at least 10% alcohol. Since my old muscle cars do NOT like alcohol in their gas (and neither do I), I found an interesting site that pretty well told me that I'm SOL if I want pure gasoline. I'd have to travel a hundred miles or so to a boat marina and pay over a buck more a gallon to get any. :mad:

Here's the site to see if you have any stations near you that still sell pure gasoline Buy REAL gas. It's pretty sad that we are now going to have 15% alcohol in our vehicles per our lovely government. In case you didn't know, you get less MPG with alcohol in your gas, alcohol destroys rubber and many other gaskets and, besides, it takes 1.4 gallons of diesel fuel to make 1 gallon of ethanol made from corn. How freaking stupid can our government get???

Most car dealers cringe at the thought of G15; 15% ethanol in the gas. The government says that they've done tests in 2011 cars and didn't find many problems running it. Um, I have a big problem with that statement from our government. First, how long did they test G15 in 2011 vehicles?? It couldn't have been long! It's over a few years that the ethanol destroys your engine. The government "test" with G15 is completely bogus and has no merit! Check those cars again in 5 years and see what has happened. It won't be pretty.

That doesn't even get into the fact that using corn (which is actually not a very good base to use making ethanol; sugar is far better) will drive up feed costs, which will drive up food costs all the while driving down fuel economy and running up major engine problems. Each manufacturer with a 10 year powertrain warranty has said they will have to make major changes to the length of the warranty on their engines if they have to run on E15.

What a deal! Thank you, you morons in our government making decisions without researching the outcomes. Lobbyists must be feeding the current Democrat run government hundreds of millions to cram this garbage down our throats!

If you want just a really quick "example", compare the BTU's (British Thermal Unit - accepted method of measuring the amount of energy in a given quantity of fuel). One gallon of gasoline generally (depending on how it's refined) has about 115,400 BTU's in one gallon. Ethanol has about 75,700 BTU's in one gallon. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that blending ethanol in your gasoline is going to give you less BTU's per gallon; thus lower MPG per gallon. Oh, in case you were wondering, regular diesel (not bio-diesel) gives you right at 138,700 BTU's per gallon. If you get bio-diesel, it drops to 126,200 BTU's per gallon.

Like I said, what a deal. Who is cramming this garbage down our throats?! Use 1.4 gallons of diesel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol from corn and then mix that in our gasoline. I fail to see how that's going to help us any.
 

Rusty Shackleford

Automotive M.D.
SUPER Site Supporter
i ran pure gasoline untill they outlawed it. not in PA anymore. fuckers. my car dont run right with the ethanol mix. i think i posted a thread on it a bit back, lemme see if i can find it.


edit::: maybe it was on another forum, or someone elses thread.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Corn producers and the ethanol lobby are the ones that are cramming it down our throats. We need to get rid of all the subsidies and the whole Department of Agriculture. Let the free markets be free.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
We has a choice till early spring when they switched regular to 10%. To get pure gas you must buy mid and premium. not good for most vehicles out there. Takes out fuel pumps and metal fuel lines plus I drop in mpg even in the Prius. Real hard on small engines and 2 cycles.
 

pixie

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
It's a plot to make everyone buy a new car that will run the stuff :hammer:
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
What little gasoline I purchase any more is from one of the (few) stations in my area that offers ethanol (aka: Government buying farmer votes boondoggle) free and at least 91 octane.

I will not buy gasoline less than 91 octane due to the fact that the over-supplemented crap they call gasoline that is sold now evaporates octane so fast, keeping it in a can for over a week looses several points worth...

For winterizing my lawnmower and other small engines, I usually fill them with 100LL airplane gasoline due to it's much more stable makeup. It won't break down for several years, unlike autogas.

I would be much happier if my airplane and Harley (my major gas users) were both diesel powered...
 

tommu56

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
What little gasoline I purchase any more is from one of the (few) stations in my area that offers ethanol (aka: Government buying farmer votes boondoggle) free and at least 91 octane.

I will not buy gasoline less than 91 octane due to the fact that the over-supplemented crap they call gasoline that is sold now evaporates octane so fast, keeping it in a can for over a week looses several points worth...

For winterizing my lawnmower and other small engines, I usually fill them with 100LL airplane gasoline due to it's much more stable makeup. It won't break down for several years, unlike autogas.

I would be much happier if my airplane and Harley (my major gas users) were both diesel powered...


JP5 is just about pure kerosene that would work if you put a jet engine in your plane, but I'm sure yours starts with less hassle.

as for the bike
neanderdiesel1.jpg


http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/06/19/neander-turbo-diesel-motorcycle/

tom
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
If you want just a really quick "example", compare the BTU's (British Thermal Unit - accepted method of measuring the amount of energy in a given quantity of fuel). One gallon of gasoline generally (depending on how it's refined) has about 115,400 BTU's in one gallon. Ethanol has about 75,700 BTU's in one gallon.

I have proven this first hand myself. When I was into MPG and all -keeping paper records, I found that there is indeed fewer MPG in the 10% mix.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
For winterizing my lawnmower and other small engines, I usually fill them with 100LL airplane gasoline due to it's much more stable makeup. It won't break down for several years, unlike autogas.

I would be much happier if my airplane and Harley (my major gas users) were both diesel powered...

I need to find out more about airplane gasoline. My wife is on the Board of the local county airport and it's probably about 12 miles away.

In my vehicles I use whatever they sell at the local gas stations which all contains ethanol. The gas for my small engines I get from the Exxon distributer which they say is "uncontaminated". I need to check that it's still true. I haven't asked for a while. The vehicle that I drive most often though is the diesel truck.
 

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
Assuming all the stations around here are following the same labeling pattern, ethanol is clearly marked. I believe our Chrysler runs higher compression than the Ford, perhaps explaining why I seem to run money ahead [mpg/$] on the former with 10% [and a few octain points], but even money, at best, on the latter.

Small engines and vintage engines [sometimes low octain non-ethanol on old, low compression tractors]: always premium without ethanol. I'm convinced too the blends don't store as well, not to mention the, also previously noted, effects on older seals.

As to positive or negative BTUs from producing ethanol, pick your spin doctor. As a local product, and with the byproduct still used for feed, it certainly is postive energy. But, if it is trucked 500miles to be blended, then trucked 500 miles to distribution, etc. the math isn't as pretty.

Assuming vehicles were made to maximize higher octain fuels in squeezing out better effeciency [rather than just able to run whatever is put in the tank], mpgs from ethanol blends would be more positive as well, but I don't expect sweeping changes there.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I can not belive we are tourching ethanol once again here on this forum. You guys need to get a life. It is the law of the land and it can and is being used quite sucessfullly by those of us who use it for 20 some years now. Muscle cars run it just fine......

Kirk
 

Trakternut

Active member
Here, we have 3 choices at the pump. 87 octane (E00) 89 Octane (E10) and 91 Octane (also E10).
I drive a '94 GMC CK1500 with the 4.3 liter V-6, the wife drives a "95 Blazer with the 4.3 V-6, both Vortecs. I don't notice any difference in performance with the 87 or 91. Mileage doesn't seem to vary either.
I run the E10 exclusively in the wintertime for the alcohol which takes care of any moisture in my fuel system. Summertime, I run E00. I did run E10 for a while this summer because it was a nickle cheaper.
Nothing scientific here, just my experiences is all. I've been using E10 since it came out and have suffered no problems that I can attribute to it.
I do use E00 in my small engines, just to be safe.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Muscle cars run it just fine......

Kirk

I have about 20 guys who only build engines for their occupation who completely disagree with you. I also have a 396 Chevy engine sitting on an engine stand because all of the fuel line seals rotted off as well as the intake manifold gasket and just about anything else the fuel touched.

If you want to consider "runs just fine" as starting and running (at reduced power) "just fine", then okay. Otherwise, :bsflag2:

One guy just moved to NC to work for Rick Hendrick's NASCAR operation because they are working two shifts a day five days a week to try to figure out how to get their racing engines to put out as much HP on E10 since it will be mandated for NASCAR next year. Current engines produce between 10% to 13% less hp on the dyno using E10 as compared to what they run now. That is most certainly enough difference to being a contender to being lapped traffic.

You can simply go here: Ethanol in fuel and scroll down to the chart that shows what modifications must be made to run different percentages of ethanol. Please note; even at E10, engines with a carburetor need modifications to just run E10. I don't know about you, but in the hundreds of shows I've attended probably less than 1% of the vehicles have a "fuel injected engine sitting under their hood" (love that Beach Boys song). As little as E5 screws with them. E10 plain fks with them. There is no debate on that matter.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
here in bush ak we still have old school fuel in anchorage when they started to mandate an oxygenated blend they tried mtbe in those days we still had mostely carburators and mtbe seemed to cause a lot of failures the alchohol had no real problems i'm guessing the mtbe had cleaned all the tanks the alchahol will affect certain rubbers however most of the moderen enginge all use nytril rubber products that won't affect them. because of the lower btu's and lighter specific gravity carbs do need to be rejetted as efi may need to be re flashed with the proper jetting the even 2 cycle engines will work fine on an oxygenated fuel. as a final note that is the goal of emmissios testing and new fuels to get old vehicles off the road.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,

Ya gotta compare apples to apples. E10 in Nascar is a push as EVERYONE will use it. Trick is to tweek the most power out of it. Those who do will win.

Yes engine builder's can come up with all sorts of problems they can blame on fuel instead of their engines....Why on earth would anyone install non etahnol rated gasket sets in anything these days, unless you happen to have stocked up on the cheap outdated ones on sale years ago...:doh:

You can say all you want about mucle cars not wanting to run E10 or any other blend for that matter. As long as you keep comparing it to E00 you won't be happy. But the truth is EVERYBODY will be burning it so what does it matter power is off slightly in your old ride?....besides do you max her out every time you drive? Time Slips every time you fill up? Bet you don't race it at all.....Almost no one does. We drive them for fun, and with E10 in the tank, trust me it still is.....

What about the billions of $ those Bast*#@& muslims aren't getting as we keep our $ at home instead of funding Jihad or what every they call it....:doh:

Smart racers are building engines for E 85. They are in the 15 to 1 range of compression, something your old muscle cars would cring at.......:doh:And the fuel is 107 octaine and they burn twice as much as Cam II, but who cares, it is lesss than 25% of the cost of the "race" gas...Look around and you wil find carb guys like Cliff Ruggles who will build you waht you want for the blend you choose.....

Ya I have about 30 years of experiance under my belt with countless miles in a small fleet of vehicals ranging in age from 1969 to the presant with not a single fuel related problem....EVER!:wow:

Regards, Kirk
 
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Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
I need to find out more about airplane gasoline. My wife is on the Board of the local county airport and it's probably about 12 miles away.

100LL (low lead) is the only aviation gasoline available any more and is basically the same as "turbo blue" racing gas. Unlike what the name implies, it contains copious amounts of lead and should not be used in engines that this would cause a problem.

What I do is run out or drain the crap gas from my mowers and such, then put just enough LL in the tank to restart the motor and fill the carb with this very stable fuel to store it for the winter. Then in the spring, I can fill the tank with fresh garbage and run it normally.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Ya I have about 30 years of experiance under my belt with countless miles in a small fleet of vehicals ranging in age from 1969 to the presant with not a single fuel related problem....EVER!:wow:

Regards, Kirk

That borders on the incredible - even Guinness Book of world records note worthy. To me that would be like saying: "I've never seen a blue screen of death - and I've been running Windows since V1.00:yum::yum:
 

loboloco

Well-known member
FYI. Fuel stabilizers work in helping small engines.
300, we realize you are bought off by the high price paid for corn to create an inefficient, and destructive additive that is mandated only because congress was bought off, but don't make it quite so obvious you are are a shill please.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nope no schill here....

Just a hard working American farmer who doesn't like the current high price of corn....Most of the farmers I know around here sold the bulk of their crop at much more reasonable and realistic prices...me included. Most of themoney being made on the rise in prices is by those who either own the farmer sold corn, or own the paper in Chicago. In all actuallity the paper trade is the biggest winner by far. They are the mangaed ehdge funds commodity funds ect. that are riding the wave THEY have created inthis market place. Just another bubble created by the big money you guys don't seem to be aware of. If you really knew farmers you would know what kind of folks we are. But I dare say from your posts I know not what you might be, unless you are owned by a big livestock integrater, like Smithfields, or Tysons...You sir are no farmer.

Regards, Kirk
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
If our moronic government really wanted to use a renewable biomass product as a source for fuel, they would be subsidizing the manufacture of bio-diesel or bio-based heavy oil fuel that actually works.

Ethanol is a net energy loss in addition to being destructive to most vehicle engines.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I can not belive we are tourching ethanol once again here on this forum. You guys need to get a life. It is the law of the land and it can and is being used quite sucessfullly by those of us who use it for 20 some years now. Muscle cars run it just fine......

Kirk



You crack me up. Running just fine, at what, idle? Or maybe 15 degrees total advance?

I guess fine is a relative term; one man's ceiling is another man's floor.

How's your OEM rubber fuel hoses doing? You should try changing out all the fuel hoses on a testerosa some time. Or if you are really lucky, and have a boat with fiberglass tanks, and your fuel system is now contaminated with melted resin, and you have to bladder your tanks.

Yup, alky is just fine.

:sad::hammer::moon::bangin::angry::furious::puke1::pat::argueing::flame2::my2cents:
 

loboloco

Well-known member
Nope no schill here....

Just a hard working American farmer who doesn't like the current high price of corn....Most of the farmers I know around here sold the bulk of their crop at much more reasonable and realistic prices...me included. Most of themoney being made on the rise in prices is by those who either own the farmer sold corn, or own the paper in Chicago. In all actuallity the paper trade is the biggest winner by far. They are the mangaed ehdge funds commodity funds ect. that are riding the wave THEY have created inthis market place. Just another bubble created by the big money you guys don't seem to be aware of. If you really knew farmers you would know what kind of folks we are. But I dare say from your posts I know not what you might be, unless you are owned by a big livestock integrater, like Smithfields, or Tysons...You sir are no farmer.

Regards, Kirk
I was born and raised farming. On a small farm, not a corporate sell out mega farm.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Just a hard working American farmer who doesn't like the current high price of corn....Most of the farmers I know around here sold the bulk of their crop at much more reasonable and realistic prices...me included

That doesn't make sense. You sold at below the market going rate? To me, that is like if gold was selling at a thousand dollars an ounce, and you sold yours at 800.00 - because you think it is unreasonable at 1K. ???
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Wow, not only do we not understand ethanol, but we don't understand the futures markets? So many experts here that seem to "know" about ethanol......and corn farmers selling the futures market.

I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I am tired of hearsay on the internet...so and so's got this problem, I heard from the guys this happens to your engine and so on...Now I am being called a lier for not haveing E 10 problems in the last 30 years......

I will refrain from posting the truth about this subject, to many "experts" here about agriculture and ethanol, and let me not forget, Goverment policy. Sorry that ethanol is the law of the land. By the way tell me what industry/company you work for so I can avoid it's use/products. I do not want to waste the money that stayed here instead of going to Islam, spending it on you. This would also let others in the ethanol industry and farmers know who to boycott as well.

I am done with this one,

Kirk out
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
To my untrained observations, the ethanol thing is a big flop and should be abandoned. If you do not believe this run a couple tanks of the stuff and record the mileage, then run three tanks of regular one hundred per cent gasoline, record the mileage on the last tank after all of the ethanol has been cleared out and compare to the last tank of the blend, it will be about five per cent lower in mileage in comparable circumstances.


Whenever I fill up with the ethanol blend of ten per cent my mileage drops about five per cent. Based upon this the blend should be priced five per cent less than regular gasoline instead of a few cents.

How can a product that is grown to be an additive to gasoline and drop the mileage by half the added value be a viable alternative?

It appears as a do good feel good thing that does not really pan out, just like the cowboy in Montana screwing a sheep until he gets caught at it. Once enough of the sheep in this country quit following and stop and compute their mileage it will continue.
 

tsaw

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
I do not want to waste the money that stayed here instead of going to Islam

Hold on. Take a break. and remember there are American oil companies. I don't know if you are saying any part of petroleum that isn't from corn goes to the middle East.. but is sure sounds like it.
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
Hold on. Take a break. and remember there are American oil companies. I don't know if you are saying any part of petroleum that isn't from corn goes to the middle East.. but is sure sounds like it.

A lot of the oil is now coming from ND from the Bakken field. Things are going nuts out in the western part of the state. Shortage of housing, shortage of water to put into the wells, and lots of riff raff brought into the state to fill all of these new jobs with plenty of shootings to go along with it.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
i would rather see the ground planted than to seethe government pay farmers not to plant
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,

Ya gotta compare apples to apples. E10 in Nascar is a push as EVERYONE will use it. Trick is to tweek the most power out of it. Those who do will win.

Yes engine builder's can come up with all sorts of problems they can blame on fuel instead of their engines....Why on earth would anyone install non etahnol rated gasket sets in anything these days, unless you happen to have stocked up on the cheap outdated ones on sale years ago...:doh:

You can say all you want about mucle cars not wanting to run E10 or any other blend for that matter. As long as you keep comparing it to E00 you won't be happy. But the truth is EVERYBODY will be burning it so what does it matter power is off slightly in your old ride?....besides do you max her out every time you drive? Time Slips every time you fill up? Bet you don't race it at all.....Almost no one does. We drive them for fun, and with E10 in the tank, trust me it still is....

Oh? You willing to bet the farm on that one???? I've had to move up 8 jet sizes in the carb to come even close to previous performance. Do you have any clue what that means? I'll help you, it means that I have to pour one hell of a lot more fuel through it to get the same performance. What a deal, and that's just at E10. Pouring a ton more fuel through your vehicle is winning?!

Nope, sorry, mixing ethanol from corn in our fuel is a good idea but extremely bad in reality. When our gubment makes us burn E15, there will be huge numbers of people unable to drive because E15 destroyed their car and they can't afford to buy a brand new one. That is aside from the fact that it's more costly for us to make ethanol from corn. Actually, it's stupid given that every study I've ever seen shows that it takes more than a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of lower BTU methanol. Now, if our fields were loaded with sugar cane, such as in Brazil, they can make methanol without using but maybe a half to 3/4 a gallon of fossil fuel.

All this additionally boils down to my taxes being higher as well just so I can burn inferior fuel in my vehicle which will cause it to last a shorter time. What a scam ethanol from corn is! My grandparents had a 1100 acre farm in S IL and grew corn and soy beans. They sold it off before I was old enough to buy the land. However, I do own a few hundred acres of land. I can also take apart an internal combustion engine and put it back together again. Can you? Apparently not. Otherwise, you would have seen what methanol does to engines.
 
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