I've taken a hiatus from the forum for a year or so, but I went to the J.J. Kane auction in SLC yesterday and decided to share my thoughts; on both the process and results.
Let me say first I'm not a big auction goer and have limited experience with these. Those with more experience should chime in to offer their perspective. I'll also say that my intention was to purchase one or two snowcats to resell (at a profit) after thorough re-conditioning.
There were eight snowcats at the auction; seven LMC's and one Thiokol, as well as three trailers sold separately (some snowcats were sold with trailers).
In the days and weeks prior to the auction there was very little information about the individual machines on the J.J. Kane website. A day or so before the auction they posted more photos but really no more detailed information. If you go to another auction site, ironplanet.com you'll see that on their auctions of surplus military trucks they typically have 50 or so photos of each truck; outside, inside, under the hood, etc. They also have videos (with sound) of the engines running and describe the performance of the vehicle in a basic operational evaluation. My impression is they try and do a thorough job of accurately representing the condition of the vehicle. If a gasket is leaking they'll say so. If a door is dented - they'll highlight that with a photo. Further they have a guarantee if the vehicle is significantly different than the way it's represented.
J.J. Kane however posted only about five or so photos per machine. There were no photos of the interiors, nor pictures of the engines. Just a few photos of the outsides; front view, side view, rear view, etc. There was no effort to highlight "problem" areas. I'm not saying they willfully attempted to deceive anybody, but rather their depictions were incomplete.
I had been called out of town on a last minute business trip and was going to be unable to be there for the start of the auction. My snowcat buddy was going to be there, and we spent over an hour looking carefully at all the photos and deciding on the maximum bid for each item the night before the auction. My Delta flight from MSP-SLC left on schedule and the captain did a great job of finding smooth air and he must have flown fast, as he got us to the gate 15 minutes early. I hurried to the auction site and surprisingly the snowcats were still available. I met my buddy and we went over and looked at each one.
The track belts, grousers, bogie wheels and drive sprockets were generally in excellent condition. However the cabs were not. Lots of rust, many dented or creased panels/doors (some requiring replacement), headliners hanging down, torn seats, damaged upholstery, etc. It was disclosed in the website listings that many of the snowcats did not run. In some cases there was no key, the engine was apart, etc. I would say despite having carefully evaluated the photos, the machines in person were uniformly in worse shape than we thought based on careful review of the available pictures.
When it came time for the first machine to be auctioned the auctioneer announced they would be sold "together". (Huh??? That was never disclosed on the website.) He said the process would be for people to bid according to their wishes and the winning bidder could pick one machine or any number of machines (or all of them) at that price.
The first machine was a 1986 LMC 1500 crew cab with front blade. Our on-site inspection revealed the blade was bent (not too badly - but it was bent) and we didn't see that in the photos. Our analysis the night before was we would bid a maximum of $15K. When the bidding stopped the price was $18K and the high bidder was a mystery bidder (via the Internet) described as "Bidder number 120". He wanted just that machine at that price.
The process started again with the next snowcat. The bidding stopped at $17K, and again the winner was Bidder 120. This time he chose to take four (I think) at that price. (Of that group our maximum bid was $12,500.)
Once again the bidding started and it topped out at $13,000. And once again Bidder 120 was the winner. He chose to take all three remaining machines at that price. (Of that group our highest bid would have been $10,000. But our lowest would have been $6,500; exactly half of the selling price.)
Eventually the auction moved to the three trailers. The newest (and best looking) was a 1990 Maxey tilting, tandem axle, 5-ton trailer. Carefully looking at the photos we saw the tongue was bent. Again the auctioneer decided to sell them together. You can probably guess who the high bidder was...yup at $4,400.00 it was Bidder 120 and he took that trailer and a really rusty 1986 Maxey with the same configuration. The remaining trailer sold to an on-site bidder for $2,600.
All the prices I've mentioned did not include the buyer's premium. For an on-site bidder that was 10%. For an Internet bidder it was 12%.
Let me say first I'm not a big auction goer and have limited experience with these. Those with more experience should chime in to offer their perspective. I'll also say that my intention was to purchase one or two snowcats to resell (at a profit) after thorough re-conditioning.
There were eight snowcats at the auction; seven LMC's and one Thiokol, as well as three trailers sold separately (some snowcats were sold with trailers).
In the days and weeks prior to the auction there was very little information about the individual machines on the J.J. Kane website. A day or so before the auction they posted more photos but really no more detailed information. If you go to another auction site, ironplanet.com you'll see that on their auctions of surplus military trucks they typically have 50 or so photos of each truck; outside, inside, under the hood, etc. They also have videos (with sound) of the engines running and describe the performance of the vehicle in a basic operational evaluation. My impression is they try and do a thorough job of accurately representing the condition of the vehicle. If a gasket is leaking they'll say so. If a door is dented - they'll highlight that with a photo. Further they have a guarantee if the vehicle is significantly different than the way it's represented.
J.J. Kane however posted only about five or so photos per machine. There were no photos of the interiors, nor pictures of the engines. Just a few photos of the outsides; front view, side view, rear view, etc. There was no effort to highlight "problem" areas. I'm not saying they willfully attempted to deceive anybody, but rather their depictions were incomplete.
I had been called out of town on a last minute business trip and was going to be unable to be there for the start of the auction. My snowcat buddy was going to be there, and we spent over an hour looking carefully at all the photos and deciding on the maximum bid for each item the night before the auction. My Delta flight from MSP-SLC left on schedule and the captain did a great job of finding smooth air and he must have flown fast, as he got us to the gate 15 minutes early. I hurried to the auction site and surprisingly the snowcats were still available. I met my buddy and we went over and looked at each one.
The track belts, grousers, bogie wheels and drive sprockets were generally in excellent condition. However the cabs were not. Lots of rust, many dented or creased panels/doors (some requiring replacement), headliners hanging down, torn seats, damaged upholstery, etc. It was disclosed in the website listings that many of the snowcats did not run. In some cases there was no key, the engine was apart, etc. I would say despite having carefully evaluated the photos, the machines in person were uniformly in worse shape than we thought based on careful review of the available pictures.
When it came time for the first machine to be auctioned the auctioneer announced they would be sold "together". (Huh??? That was never disclosed on the website.) He said the process would be for people to bid according to their wishes and the winning bidder could pick one machine or any number of machines (or all of them) at that price.
The first machine was a 1986 LMC 1500 crew cab with front blade. Our on-site inspection revealed the blade was bent (not too badly - but it was bent) and we didn't see that in the photos. Our analysis the night before was we would bid a maximum of $15K. When the bidding stopped the price was $18K and the high bidder was a mystery bidder (via the Internet) described as "Bidder number 120". He wanted just that machine at that price.
The process started again with the next snowcat. The bidding stopped at $17K, and again the winner was Bidder 120. This time he chose to take four (I think) at that price. (Of that group our maximum bid was $12,500.)
Once again the bidding started and it topped out at $13,000. And once again Bidder 120 was the winner. He chose to take all three remaining machines at that price. (Of that group our highest bid would have been $10,000. But our lowest would have been $6,500; exactly half of the selling price.)
Eventually the auction moved to the three trailers. The newest (and best looking) was a 1990 Maxey tilting, tandem axle, 5-ton trailer. Carefully looking at the photos we saw the tongue was bent. Again the auctioneer decided to sell them together. You can probably guess who the high bidder was...yup at $4,400.00 it was Bidder 120 and he took that trailer and a really rusty 1986 Maxey with the same configuration. The remaining trailer sold to an on-site bidder for $2,600.
All the prices I've mentioned did not include the buyer's premium. For an on-site bidder that was 10%. For an Internet bidder it was 12%.
