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The Suicidal Left: Civilizations and their Death Drives

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
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Great Article:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5288

Prime Excerpt:
[font=times new roman, times, serif][/font]
[font=times new roman, times, serif]The Left, however, does not confine itself to mere criticism, but aggressively seeks to transform its anti-Western attitude into reality. Even a cursory glance at some of its successes should give us an idea of just how effective its efforts have been.[/font]
[font=times new roman, times, serif]Virtually demolishing the West’s traditional morality, the Left has managed to legitimize promiscuity, illegitimacy, abortion and homosexuality. This transformation has reached a point where in many quarters these behaviors are not only considered acceptable but outright commendable.[/font]

[font=times new roman, times, serif]Through its aggressive atheism, the Left has succeeded in virtually eliminating Christianity from our public arena, and to a large degree from the private sphere as well. This trend has been especially pronounced in Europe where only some seven percent of the population engage in some form of regular religious observance.[/font]

[font=times new roman, times, serif]The Left’s seemingly insatiable hunger for governmental expansion has bucked the West’s long-term trend toward the limited State. Dominated by large, all-intrusive welfare states, the condition of many European countries could be justifiably described as soft socialism. The excessive taxation and regulation which are the inevitable byproducts of this have virtually strangled their free economic enterprise and induced long-term economic malaise. Diametrically opposed to the ideals of classical liberalism, this state of affairs represents a complete subversion of western political and economic tradition.[/font]

[font=times new roman, times, serif]By teaching that the masterpieces of the West’s greatest creative minds are no more intrinsically valuable than artifacts of far less advanced societies, the Left has deprived westerners’ of their justified pride in their own culture. And by lying about the West’s past, it has managed to suppress our consciousness of historical greatness.[/font]

[font=times new roman, times, serif]The Left’s successes have been largely due to its takeover of the two main channels for the dissemination of knowledge and information – the media and academia. Careful to avoid positive portrayal of the West in almost any context, they abound in aspersions and criticism. In the process, the Left has devised an ingenious and effective mode of censorship to further its ends. It is called political correctness.[/font]
 

OkeeDon

New member
Several years ago, I started seeing references to Secular Humanists. The term was always capitalized, as it it was the proper name of a specific organization. The people using the term were blaming all of the woes of the nation on the Secular Humanists (that was another of the standards of reference, it was always the Secular Humanists).

I was mystified. I searched all over the place. I was looking for that group, The Secular Humanists. I figured they had to be pretty well organized to be responsible for so many things.

I never found such a group.

The reason I bring this up, is because as I read your link, there was a continual reference the the "left". After starting off by saying they din't understand the left, they went on to attribute all sorts of specific things to this mysterious "left", as if there is a definition somewhere.

I came away just as mystified. I consider myself to be on the left of center politically speaking, but I certainly found very little in that article that applied to me, or to any of the other lefties (or liberals or progrssives or whatever term you want to use) I know.

In other words, it was one more failed attempt by some radical conservative to try to paint a picture of the left as something negative. My reaction? We must be doing something right for them to be so afraid of us...
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
OkeeDon said:
My reaction? We must be doing something right for them to be so afraid of us...
Don, , You Should have said "paying so much attention to us " rather than "so afraid of us" . :)
 
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OkeeDon

New member
nixon said:
Don, , You Should have said "paying so much attention to us " rather than "so afraid of us" . :)
Nope, I said it right. If you were paying attention, you would know that the link PB posted is a crock. When someone starts making up so many lies, it's because they're afraid. They make up the lies to try to demonize the other side. It's called brain washing, and it must work -- so many of you believe that crap.
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
I agree the "left" and "right" broad brushes are used too much. That being said, many of the points raised by the article can be associated with "left leaning" organizations like the ACLU and individuals like Jimmy Carter, Harry Belefonte, Michael Moore, the rest of the misguided and uneducated hollywood "moron-squad" (my term).

I believe this is where the roots of the broad "left" brush are from. Loud voices, all with the sympathetic platform of the "Mainstreem Media" to broadcast them.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
OkeeDon said:
Nope, I said it right. If you were paying attention, you would know that the link PB posted is a crock. When someone starts making up so many lies, it's because they're afraid. They make up the lies to try to demonize the other side. It's called brain washing, and it must work -- so many of you believe that crap.
Just curious, but what are the "lies" you are referring to?
 

jdwilson44

New member
The problem I have with the "right" and "left" political designations is that they both seem to be doing stupid things and want to stick their goverment funded fingers into our lives - they just want to do it in different ways. I consider myself to be conservative and frankly I am not very religious at all. Since I was old enough to pay any attention whatsoever to social trends and politics I have always been baffled at much of what the "left" has stood for because when I compare it to my own life experiences the liberals' attitudes just totally seem to have no basis in reality. Unfortunately lately the word 'conservative' seems to have gotten all tied up with the bible thumping god-fearing religious right. And frankly I don't like them very much either. George Bush and his neoconservative gang of foreign interventionists frankly don't seem very conservative to me as they go around the world pissing everybody off. To me being conservative falls more along the lines of what our nations founders thought - religious freedom but no religious intervention in politics or goverment. Foreign relations means trading not invading. Limited goverment with balance of powers - including states rights which have been slowly trampled away by a bigger and bigger federal goverment. All of these things seem to have been thrown out the window by forces from the left and forces from the right. Frankly I don't see much hope for anything during the next presidential election because I can't imagine that either party will field a candidate that will not be really bad for the country in one way or another.

As for secular humanism you might get a better idea from reading this page:
http://www.bidstrup.com/humanist.htm

from the above web page:

The American Humanist Association's Definition of Humanism:
"Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracty and the expansion of open society, standing for human rights and social justice. Free of supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that values -- be they religious, ethical, social or political -- have their source in human nature, experience and culture. Humanism thus derives the goals of life from human need and interest rather than from theological or ideological abstractions, and asserts that humanity must take responsibility for its own destiny."
 

humor_me

New member
B_Skurka said:
Just curious, but what are the "lies" you are referring to?

Funny, Bob. You stumped him:whip: - sort of like dividing zero by zero on one of those old mechanical calculators!:D :applause:
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
humor_me said:
Funny, Bob. You stumped him:whip: - sort of like dividing zero by zero on one of those old mechanical calculators!:D :applause:
Yea Bob, what's up with that? You're not allowed to ask a question like that without there being adequate web sites to be found to offer a position paper to rebut your post. Heck, I still don't have an answer to what message we're sending the UAE and our other allies that help us out but we poop on them when they want to invest or do things in our country (this is in the "Death Wish" thread talking about the ports).
 

jdwilson44

New member
Sitting at my desk during lunchbreak I went to the URL you posted and read the entire article. The interesting thing is that the author came from Czekoslovakia (formerly communist) at 19. The article itself is very interesting in that he echoes the same sentiments I have heard from other commentators - that the biggest problem Western countries have right now is not Islamic terrorists but the people within their own societies who can't seem to pull their heads out of their collective butts (the left) to see what has to be done to stop them.

The next presidential election should be very interesting........
 

OkeeDon

New member
humor_me said:
Funny, Bob. You stumped him...
Just how did you arrive at that? I've had better things to do, today, than spend all day on the computer. It's late, now, I just got home, and I'm tired and irritable. If you really think he stumped me, then better pull the blast blanket over your head tomorrow, because now you've pissed me off with your stupid "divide zero by zero" jab.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Well for what it is worth, I didn't try to stump anyone, I just wondered what the 'lies' were that were being referred to. Based on the way the comment was written, it seemed to imply that there was so much deception in the article that it was more false than true. So it just seemed like a reasonable question. Nothing more than that.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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And I think the lack of replies was interpreted as being stumped.

BTW, no visits from Bonehead. Looks like he took the day off as well.
 

humor_me

New member
OkeeDon said:
Just how did you...you've pissed me off with your stupid "divide zero by zero" jab.

What, are you stuttering.. out with it!:moon:


Besides, only a math teacher:whip: or a retired:gay: adding machine repairman would get so worked up over my "jab".
Don't you know, you know can't divide by zero on those? It stumps them every time!:whistle:

Go have a beer 'n settle down
:1062:
 

OkeeDon

New member
humor_me said:
Besides, only a math teacher:whip: or a retired:gay: adding machine repairman would get so worked up over my "jab".
So, which are you? Or, is there more than those two categories who understand your jab? Maybe I'm one of those? Like someone who understands how things work?

Bob, I understood the genesis of your question and took no offense at it. I think the lies are self-evident, but for those who do not understand, I'll undertake some basic elucidation -- tomorrow (or, more properly, today, it being 12:20 AM and I just woke up from a brief nap to take my meds and go back to sleep.) It will take a little time to answer you, because like someone else mocked, I will have uhhh, uhh -- references -- to back up and, uh, prove my answers. That's what I do. It's hard work. And, I'm working hard at it. It's this, uhhhh -- uhhhhh -- uh,

uh,


uh, uh,



huge storm.
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
OkeeDon states that the right is trying to paint the Left a certain way but he cant seem to find a "left" based group. Oh so there are only "Right" winged groups which you of course can see with NO problem. I am amazed at these people! Are we afraid of the Left group? You say we are, who is WE? The Right? Hell, now Ive done it. I'm gonna have to sit through his response and read his Blah blah blah blah blah crap. No I wont its always the same gibberish spewing from the same mouths. Blah blah blah George Bush is just like Hitler. Blah blah blah blah. Hes killing little babies Blah blah blah blah blah. The Iraq war is illegal blah blah blah blah blah. Uhhmm theres no WMDs blah blah blah blah blah. Uhmm Right wingers are dumb blah blah blah blah blah. Same crap day after day after day.
 

HGM

New member
Snowcat Operations said:
OkeeDon states that the right is trying to paint the Left a certain way but he cant seem to find a "left" based group. Oh so there are only "Right" winged groups which you of course can see with NO problem. I am amazed at these people! Are we afraid of the Left group? You say we are, who is WE? The Right? Hell, now Ive done it. I'm gonna have to sit through his response and read his Blah blah blah blah blah crap. No I wont its always the same gibberish spewing from the same mouths. Blah blah blah George Bush is just like Hitler. Blah blah blah blah. Hes killing little babies Blah blah blah blah blah. The Iraq war is illegal blah blah blah blah blah. Uhhmm theres no WMDs blah blah blah blah blah. Uhmm Right wingers are dumb blah blah blah blah blah. Same crap day after day after day.

You know, one thing I can say is that I wish I was as well versed and able to spew web links and specific "facts" as Don can. He definitly believes what he believes, and has done allot of "research" to prove it to himself.. Don that is truely a complement..

The problem I have with all this research, is you only believe what you want to believe, the rest ends up being "lies".... So in the end, what have you proven?? Its human nature... I dont live to prove Bush is a demon, I dont believe it. You could show me a picture of him with horns, I dont give a shit so you wont change my mind.. This is the same as Don feels about me "believing lies", its kind of pointless to talk about it..

So, with that said.... With the "right beliving lies" and the "left spouting lies" who's correct?? To be honest with you, they both have their faults.. I cant deny it, Don cant deny it... In my opinion, the "right" is less wrong.. Its funny, I listen to Sean Hannity a bit and he had a good rant yersterday about being a "Reagan Conservative"(I'm not going to provide a link, you cann find it if you want to).. In a nutshell, he was speaking of how Reagan was strong on national defence and like Bush really didnt care what anyone thought about him or his policies, he set this nation up for some of the greatest economical growth and low unemployment that it has ever had.. He was a "terrible president" according to the left at the time, but now he goes down to be one of this nations best presidents.. Only time will tell, but I too wonder how people will see Bush when all the "behind the scenes" things surface.. He can be an idiot at times, I dont agree with how he phrased the (latest and greatest) Katrina info about leavies, but he is strong and commited to what we are doing.. Whether you believe in why we are doing something or not he proves that Americans are strong and no one will screw with us while a strong leader is in office.. I'm not a religious man, but God help us if a wishy washy far left president comes in the future.. This country cannot handle someone with the weak backbone of a Clinton, Gore, Dean, Kerry, Kennedy, Carter, etc, etc,etc..........

I dont think you guys stumped Don, but I also dont believe he will reply without a link to prove his side, that just seems to be the way he likes to put his point accross, it adds more validity to what he says.. In my opinion though, I could find websites dedicated to Nazi-ism too, should I believe them too???? People need to learn to think for themselves again in this country..
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Well I woke up at 4am because the lovely Mrs_B smacked me in the side of the head while looking for the little white yappy dog that ususally sleeps on her side of the bed but last night didn't. So I got up and played on the computer. And I looked over the article in question again. I saw a lot of "sweeping generalizations" that are commonly held to be true, and probably based on some factual evidence. I saw some examples, foisted as the truth, that illustrate the generalizations.

I'm not sure that I saw a scholorly analysis, but it seemed pretty darn reasonable taken as a whole document. Certainly it could have been tightened up. But I again, still saw no outright lies. Not saying that some of the examples and generalizations are universal about the left, but they cover a reasonably large cross section of the left that I think they can be supported.

My guess is that most on the left will refute an essay like this one by citing examples of the right doing silly things. And while the right may do silly things as often as the left, those actions, or examples do not refute the basic premise of the essay. Further, citing examples from the right without disproving the generalizations posed in the essay about the left means that the comments still stand and they are not lies. They only way to prove they are lies is to prove they are lies. Counter examples don't do that. Proof will disprove them, if it actually exists. That will be a pretty tough task.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
HGM said:
In a nutshell, he was speaking of how Reagan was strong on national defence and like Bush really didnt care what anyone thought about him or his policies, he set this nation up for some of the greatest economical growth and low unemployment that it has ever had.. He was a "terrible president" according to the left at the time, but now he goes down to be one of this nations best presidents..

Wasn't it something like this that Reagan said, "there is no limit to what a person can do as long as he doesn't care who gets the credit" Yeah something like that, and I personally believe Clinton got all the credit for what Reagan did.


HGM said:
This country cannot handle someone with the weak backbone of a Clinton, Gore, Dean, Kerry, Kennedy, Carter, etc, etc,etc..........

I am not saying the Republicans are right or wrong not am I saying the Democrats are right or wrong. But the people like Kennedy, Carter, Gore, Dean and both Clintons are not the ones that should be in there. People talk about Bush lying, I would not trust any of the Dem's right now as far as telling the truth.

murph
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Isn't this really just an opinion piece? I'm not sure it requires any sort of fact analysis. You are certainly allowed to have a dissenting view. I just think he does a good job of putting his view of things into words. I'm not sure this article is really something that can be defined in black and white terms.

But, if Don and others have time to waste to dig up stuff that they feel relates to this then that is good too. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.

PB
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Actually I wasnt trying to stump anybody. That was MY diatribe on the "LEFT" in general. But wait they dont exist so forget everything I wrote. LOL
 

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
thcri said:
I am not saying the Republicans are right or wrong not am I saying the Democrats are right or wrong. But the people like Kennedy, Carter, Gore, Dean and both Clintons are not the ones that should be in there. People talk about Bush lying, I would not trust any of the Dem's right now as far as telling the truth.

murph

To keep this even handed, what are your thoughts about the President that said that he would fire anyone in his administration if evidence came out that they were the ones that leaked the name of the CIA operatives name to the press. Seems to me that Libby and Rove are still in there. So much for him having backbone. Removing Rove from the White House would be like putting Charlie McCarthy back into the suitcase. Bush wouldn't have anyone pulling the strings so he could walk and chew bubble gum at the same time....
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Junkman said:
Bush wouldn't have anyone pulling the strings so he could walk and chew bubble gum at the same time....


Junk,

Your too funny and I love your quote. As far as my quote, maybe I wrote it somewhat wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that we are all being lied to. I don't care if it is Republican or Democrat. They are all lying to us. But from the two parties I personally beleive the Republicans a bit more than I do the Dem's and maybe I shouldn't say Dems or Repubs. I just don't trust Kennedy, Kerry, Gore or either of the two Clintons. I think the main reason the Dem's have lost in the last two elections is because of the people they put up there. Just my opinion.

murph

edit starts here,

Just got an email about how Kennedy has bashed the Bush administration about alternative energy. So there is this big project out there called the Cape Wind Project erecting 130 windmills in Nantucket Sound and now Ted Kennedy is protesting this. It would provide 75% of Cape Cods electrical needs. What better way of creating alternative power that would not use the earth's resources? But because this is Ted's area and his sailing area this is a big no no. But Ted is always been two faced in my book. Again my personal opinion.
 
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HGM

New member
thcri said:
Just got an email about how Kennedy has bashed the Bush administration about alternative energy. So there is this big project out there called the Cape Wind Project erecting 130 windmills in Nantucket Sound and now Ted Kennedy is protesting this. It would provide 75% of Cape Cods electrical needs. What better way of creating alternative power that would not use the earth's resources? But because this is Ted's area and his sailing area this is a big no no. But Ted is always been two faced in my book. Again my personal opinion.


Murph, I heard that on the news a few weeks ago, I just didnt have a link to it so I didnt bother mentioning it... :thumb:

Lots of doubletalk comes out of that party, but some folks are so wrapped up in hating Bush that they cant see what else is going on..
 
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