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Opinions on this one....

DaveNay

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1975 Ford 4100

It looks more likely that I will be buying haying equipment in the next couple weeks, so I need to get a larger tractor. This one is in the right price range (everything's negotiable), and close enough to avoid high delivery charges.

Anyone have any comments on this make & model?

Thanks!
 

daedong

New member
Good tractors but a fraction to small for a square baler it will do it but with a stuggle, Idealy a few more HP
 

Melensdad

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I don't know a darn thing about haying but I always thought what Vin wrote.

I do know where you can borrow a trailer that will tow that thing home from Rockford if you need to borrow one.
 

Jim_S

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I'm with Vin on this one. When I was a kid we used a JD 3020 @60 hp to pull a jd square baler. It did the job but was a little light at times. When it was on the 4020 at 95 hp no problems at all.

Jim
 

DaveNay

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For some reason, I've never been able to get my mind to accept that 45 HP is not enough to bale 50 lb square bales on my dead flat field. (seriously....the highest point is probably 5' from the lowest). I've been looking for more definitive information on exactly this subject all afternoon, and I can't get a clear picture.

All I know is the guy who baled the property prior to us purchasing it ran his baler with an old JD one-hitter tractor, and he had no problems.

Thanks Bob...I think they will actually deliver, I am close enough.
 

daedong

New member
I will elaborate on this, I have bailed thousands of small square bails of hay. I actually started making hay with a Ford Super Dexta 45HP. It done the job to a point. What happens is a tractor of this size shunts back and forth with the plunger on the bailer. This has many effects, first is it is not pleasant siting on a rocking horse all day. Secondly the shunting comes about because the engine it not big enough and the engine surges in RPM this cannot be good for the tractor in the long term. Thirdly unless you have a bailer that has perfect knotters it will miss plenty of knots. Generally bailers are very sensitive to variation of operating speed.
 

DaveNay

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daedong said:
I will elaborate on this, I have bailed thousands of small square bails of hay. I actually started making hay with a Ford Super Dexta 45HP. It done the job to a point. What happens is a tractor of this size shunts back and forth with the plunger on the bailer. This has many effects, first is it is not pleasant siting on a rocking horse all day. Secondly the shunting comes about because the engine it not big enough and the engine surges in RPM this cannot be good for the tractor in the long term. Thirdly unless you have a bailer that has perfect knotters it will miss plenty of knots. Generally bailers are very sensitive to variation of operating speed.

Ahhhhh....so is it horsepower, or is it weight that makes a difference? :confused:
 

daedong

New member


[FONT=&quot]Dave, often larger tractors (60Hp+) are cheaper than the smaller ones down here. I don’t know if that applies in the US but it might be worth checking out. Has anyone else got any thoughts on this?[/FONT]
 

Jim_S

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DaveNay said:
50 lb square bales

That's one difference, we wanted the bales no less than 80 lbs. packed them until the wires started breaking when they hit the ground and then back off a little.

DaveNay said:
Ahhhhh....so is it horsepower, or is it weight that makes a difference?

Like Red Dog said, both.

Something to watch, whatever you do, don't shut down just as the trip for the wire cutter is cocking. You should be able to see the lever arm on the side of the baler start to move. When you start up again you will loose a shear pin every time. Like someone else says, don't ask me how I know.:(

lot of fun putting in the new one in the dark with no light except for the rear tractor lights and a flashlight that only glows weak orange.

Jim
 

Melensdad

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DaveNay said:
Another one.

And another.

OK...higher H.P. Only a little more $. :thumb:

Dave, good thing they will deliver as those would probably be over my trailer's capacity. 7000# limit, trailer probably weighs 1800# so the capacity would be about 5200#.
 

DaveNay

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B_Skurka said:
Dave, good thing they will deliver as those would probably be over my trailer's capacity. 7000# limit, trailer probably weighs 1800# so the capacity would be about 5200#.

Delivery from this dealer is around $1.85 per loaded mile. For me, that would be right around $100.

No brainer decision in my opinion.

(I assume the specification of per loaded mile indicates that I would only pay for the delivery miles, and not the return empty trip.)
 

bczoom

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Dave,

Either of those 2 would be better then your first choice.

A MF-165 with the Multi-Power tranny and Perkins diesel is another fine choice if you see one.

Yes, loaded mile is with the tractor loaded.
 

kensfarm

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Find out what the pto hp specs are for the haying equipment first..

I been making squares w/ a NH 273 square bailer w/ kicker.. never had a problem in the last 3 seasons running it behind my TC35D.. I don't pull a hay wagon behind it. It can be done.. but yes.. bigger tractor & more hp would be better.
 

DaveNay

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daedong said:
Those first 2 look ideal.

They are at the same dealer. I am going to go see them this weekend. The Case 685 looks like the frontrunner right now.
 

Spiffy1

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I have no idea what rake you're using so Vin's advice is probably better.

Anyway, we use a narrow front raking the FIL's; the tight turning makes tough corners much easier (even among the nasty hills around there; side note: I love to scare the wife, but have challanged my own pucker factor a few times too :eek: ). Sometimes we use that one for spraying for the same reasons, but I like a cab for that if there's even a gentle breeze.
 

DaveNay

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Looked at several tractors this evening.

Oliver 1650, narrow front, gasoline. Approx 3000 hrs. $4000
Oliver 1850, wide front, gasoline. Approx 5000 hrs. $5500
Farmall 656, narrow front, gasoline. Approx 4000 hrs. $5000
Oliver 1655, narrow front, diesel. 2850 hrs. $7000

All of the tractors are in great external condition and started instantly on the first try.

The 1655 is really nice, but a little more than I want to pay. The 1850 is in the poorest external condition (still great though) and is probably more HP than I require.

I am leaning towards the 1650 or the 656. A little more towards the 1650.
 

Melensdad

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Dave, thanks for waking me up with the phone call!!! But now that I'm awake and looking over the specs, and as I said on the phone I'm an Oliver guy but I liked the 2 and 3 digit machines and don't know much about the 1xxx machines. So I did some digging and none of this is based on touching. . . but the 1650 has 12 F and 2 R gears, the Farmall is probably a 5 F 1 R machine. For your intended uses, would the additional gearing provide any advantage? The Ollie is also heavier, which may be an advantage for the haying.
 

DaveNay

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B_Skurka said:
Dave, thanks for waking me up with the phone call!!! But now that I'm awake and looking over the specs, and as I said on the phone I'm an Oliver guy but I liked the 2 and 3 digit machines and don't know much about the 1xxx machines. So I did some digging and none of this is based on touching. . . but the 1650 has 12 F and 2 R gears, the Farmall is probably a 5 F 1 R machine. For your intended uses, would the additional gearing provide any advantage? The Ollie is also heavier, which may be an advantage for the haying.

I didn't wake you....your wife did! :whistle:

You are correct, the Farmall is 5F+1R and the 1650 is 12F+2R. The 1655 is basically the same as the 1650, except the reducer is a three way, providing 18F+3R. The extra gears can indeed make a difference when haying, allowing a finer tuning of the baling speed. This is why the 1655 would be the best of the group, but I am not sure the extra price is worth it.

The weight of the Oliver is definitely an advantage, as VIN pointed out in an earlier comment, the weight makes a difference preventing the tractor from surging when running the baler.
 

Wannafish

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Dave,

How many acres of hay are you planning on putting up?
If it was me, (and it WAS me a couple years ago) I'd opt for a diesel. I started out with gas tractors - which were great - until I moved up to a diesel. They are super simple. No need to fiddle with the carb - there is no float to stick; no sparkplugs and/or wires to change, no coil to go bad...

I put up ~350 acres of hay per year. Both small squares (40-70 lbs depending on customer) and large round bales. If you have a chance to come up to mid-michigan I'd be happy to show you my toys - even let you drive them if you so chose, just to get an idea of what you are getting into. Haying is a lot of work - especially with a day job, but I love doing it.

Because I needed a way to handle the large rounds (at least, that was the excuse I gave my wife :whistle: ) I bought a 1995 72 h.p. 4wd Case with a loader in January to go with my 4020 J.D. I've had smaller/less h.p. tractors and realized at the time - you can never have "too much" horsepower. :D I don't have enough for everything I do, but if I want to stay married it will have to do.:smileywac


Kens-farm
Why would you run a baler with a kicker if you don't have a wagon on behind? Do you have someone running around behind you practicing to return punts? :yum:
 

DaveNay

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Wannafish said:
How many acres of hay are you planning on putting up?
If it was me, (and it WAS me a couple years ago) I'd opt for a diesel.
Right now, we only have about 10 acres. I am thinking about leasing an additional 20 acres next year, or the year after.

I agree, a diesel would be my first choice also (my JD855 is diesel), however the gassers I looked at last night have the advantage of knowing the history of them. The people who own them have had them for 20 years, and done very good maintanance on them (ya know how you can "just tell" when you walk into someones shop?), plus I have known the family for several years now, and they are not the type to B.S. me.

I can always sell a gasser in a couple years if I want to trade up again.

Wait....what am I saying?!?! I'll just get a third tractor to add to the collection at that time. :a1:
 

Wannafish

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"Wait....what am I saying?!?! I'll just get a third tractor to add to the collection at that time. "

Thought I might have to slap you there for a moment...:thumb:
 

kensfarm

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Wannafish said:
Kens-farm
Why would you run a baler with a kicker if you don't have a wagon on behind? Do you have someone running around behind you practicing to return punts? :yum:

I wish I had some help.. nobody wants to work any more.. the rake & baler was a package deal. I have some steep hills I operate on.. w/ the 4WD it's no problem w/ just the baler.. I'd probably be okay on flat ground pulling a wagon too. I looked at removing it.. but for now.. I let-em fly!
I'll use my old equipment as a trade-in in a few years.. need a bigger tractor too. I don't sell hay.. so I'll probably go to all round bales in the future.

I built a wooden hay wagon on some old JD gear.. it's fashioned after the old time hay wagons.. w/ a front rail/ rear rail.. no sides. I line it w/ 2x2 fencing when I'm harvesting ear corn.
 

bczoom

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Can you just disconnect the kicker chain? I would think if they just rolled off the back you would get:
1 - Less broken bales
2 - Less chance of them rolling down the hill which may be important if they roll into the next windrow...:pat:
 

Wannafish

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bczoom said:
Can you just disconnect the kicker chain? I would think if they just rolled off the back you would get:
1 - Less broken bales
2 - Less chance of them rolling down the hill which may be important if they roll into the next windrow...:pat:


That was kind of what I was thinking...though my JD kicker is belt powered. I even figured out how to turn it "off" after only 2 years!
I find it odd that reading the directions in the manual actually worked.:pat: :yum: :yum:
 

kensfarm

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bczoom said:
Less chance of them rolling down the hill which may be important if they roll into the next windrow...:pat:

Yep.. I deal w/ that too.. I've been getting a lot of practice lately climbing on & off the tractor to pick up big rocks while I've been doing
ground prep work.

Wannafish said:
though my JD kicker is belt powered.

The NH kicker on mine is belt powered too.. belt goes around the flywheel.. which is cone-like shaped.. you adjust the belt along the flywheel to increase/decrease the kicker speed. Kicker position is controled w/ hydralics.
 
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