• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

BR100+ and deep snow?

mannix

Member
Hey all, reading and learning more.

I'm wondering now about the BR100 (+)?, and it's abilities in deep snow.

First - does the "+" indicate the 32" wide tracks?

Secondly, how does it do in deep snow? I read the bit on SafetyOne's website, looks like 3 front seats. Narrow, easily towable. A blade would potentially make it a good road-builder, at least for other BR100s.

Figure out a way to stow skis outside and make some sort of rudimentary outdoor passenger-area by the engine cover - not an enclosure, but seats/something to hang on to, I could see a BR100 being a good ski-cat. Maybe 4 people on the deck outside, 3 inside, 7 people, one cat, hmmmmmm, kinda liking this idea.

How do they do in deep snow?

I'm liking Snow Masters more and more, but I HATE the idea of old VW technology. Sorry guys, I know it works, but, ehhhh, no. Not sure I can do it.

The Thiokols and whatnot are awesome, but too big.

Tuckers creep me out for some reason. Too tall? Dunno, but for whatever reason I've not been bitten by the Tucker bug.

I really want a Snowtracish sized cat with more modern running gear - and that seems like a BR100, in a lot of ways.

I just watched MtnToppers' video, it looked pretty capable, although not much in the way of hills in that video. For the most part, I'd expect to be following forest service roads - so nothing _terribly_ steep, but potentially wind drifted and whatnot.

On that note, how does a bladeless small cat deal with a FS road that's been drifted in on the uphill side? It does not take long for some of the FS roads around here to get drifted in to the point that they're essentially sidehills - that's why I'd kinda like a blade, knock that stuff off the side so I don't flip the thing over, or slide off the road into a tree or or or I can only imagine how many ways that could go wrong, at least without a blade.

With a blade, I'd guess it'd be pretty easy to carve out the uphill side of the road, push it to the downhill side, make a nice flat path across it.

Thoughts?

Thanks!



Iain (eventually, I'll just buy a cat, but this time, I'm going to REALLY try to buy the right cat first - or at least close to it - rather than my typical entry into a new hobby, spending all kinds of money and effort on the wrong thing just to dump it all for pennies on the dollar and buy what I should have to begin with....)
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
Wow thats a lot of questions ,but I'm sure of one thing .....its going to cost you all kinds of money:biggrin: if your handy in the shop it costs less but if you need some one else to work on it......$$$$ front blade is going to come in handy on the forest roads. side hilling exc. the depth of snow it will function well in will depend on the snow type,i'm not sure about the psi rating of that unit(i drive a tucker 1542)and i know some one on the forum knows more about the br100+ good luck .
 

northeastheavy

New member
I understand wanting to find the right snowcat the first one you buy!!!! I had to try 5 different cats until I found a BR60+ that I really enjoy. I am tall and found I don't fit well in thiokol imps, Bombi's and Br100's with 3 seats are too small, 3 big guys is a "manwich" in a Bombi. Think it out well before you buy!! The older you go, the more you have an antique. The newer you go, the more modern conveniences!!!Heat, w/s wipers, better seats and bigger cabs, and more power. Find one that fun to drive and is comfortable.
Next, what kind of terrain. wide open or tight winding trails, steep hills!!! Snotracs, tuckers, may not be the best on narrow switchback trails. Nothing like a thiokol or bombardier for easy steering!!!! My snowmaster could not make the sharp tight turns here in the mountains. If you have wide open areas, anything will be fun. Deep snow??? If you can get traction and tracks are wide enough, you will be fine. If you can "test drive" a few before you buy, all the better. Lastly!!!!!!!!! Buy one that rides and drives so you can enjoy it now!!!!! Don't make your first cat a project you can't drive!!! Get a running unit!!! Plenty of time for projects later!!!!! Best of luck in the hunt!!! Do alot of looking and thinking so you get a good one first time!!!!
 

mattfidaho

New member
A blade is a very valuable tool... but I have seen all too many times guys get a snow cat with a blade and they think it is a bull dozer....
one guy I know dang near takes it down to dirt everywhere he goes... and he wonders why his cat is always broke down.
on side hills a blade can help alot, but it can also slip the rear end out if you are trying to cut and climb in hard snow, digging in too deep etc, once you learn how to use it and when to use it it is very helpful to have in your "tool box"
 

mannix

Member
Yeah, it'd take some learning with the blade. I've seen some bladed roads that seemed like they took a LOT more snow than needed. Seems to me that you'd just want to run the blade horizontal, taking just enough to make a flat road surface (or close to flat).

Matt - saw the video of you sidehilling your Tucker with a winch cable. Freaking yikes.

I should clarify - I've not been bitten by the Tucker (that I can afford) bug. I'd love something like yours with a passenger box, but alas, that's probably a bit out of the price range.

Thanks! It does not sound like the BR100 is _bad_ in deep snow....



Iain
 

mattfidaho

New member
yeah that side hill was part of my learning curve... I hadnt "crabbed" the cat in vary many cases so I felt a lot safer with the winch hooked up just in case... the next week I had to crab on a few hills that I had nothing to winch too. and I felt alot better about doing it that time even with out the winch. almost every day I learn something and my faith in the cat grows.
when I was first starting out I used the blade way too much and it got me into a few hairy places, (sliding the back out and then having to try to recover)
It really just depends on how the snow is and how hard it is. some times It is soft enough and I can blade going up hill without any issues, just tlit the blade to the uphill side and it will roll the snow to the downhill track. :)
 

mannix

Member
Curiosity question:

If you were at the top of a FS road - 2wd passable, fairly wide in the summer - and you drove the cat DOWN it, with several feet of new snow/windloaded snow/etc, would you have good confidence you could get back up and out?

The road in question is Jones Pass Road, near Empire, CO. If you follow the road up on google maps, over the pass at the saddle, it continues down the backside and dead ends. The mining company does a fair bit of stuff back there, so the road is very well maintained in summer - you can drive pretty much anything up there.

Semi-academic, not sure a cat can get TO the saddle in the winter, the road gets blown in by mid November.

But, if you're following a FS road, breaking trail down, is that trail you just made enough to instill confidence you can get back out?

Naturally, a cat will go DOWN just about anything - but in this case, I'm talking about a mild 2wd road - not steep.

Curiosity more than anything. One of my biggest fears on the sleds is getting down into something I can't get out of (so I pretty much don't ride down anything I'm not sure about - I find the bottom and ride up, or find the bottom, know I can get out, go back to the top and try to break a trail).

IE, on sleds, riding the sled down something first HELPS get back up it, but that's no guarantee. That said, the sleds will pretty easily break trail up the FS road I'm talking about, so......

I really need a cat, a week or ten off, some food and a good sleeping bag, because I _know_ I'm going to learn the answers to questions like this.......



Iain
 

mattfidaho

New member
I haven't looked at the road in question, but we have a few tower sites that we have to cross a few saddles down then up the other side,
I personally feel confidant I can make it back out. If I am about to drop down some where (depends on snow conditions again) if I have a question about it I will (sled or cat) go at an angle and make some what switch backs, and use the blade going down hill to pack a good trail that will set up for the trip out.... now most of my trips are headed back out in a few hours so *most of the time the drifting back in isnt an issue,

one thing some of the guys I work with don't totally understand is you are in a snow cat. some time where the summer road is isn't the easiest route. a lot of times you can follow a ridge above where the summer road is and make your life alot easier, it all about reading the snow and hills. for me at least.

if I get to a hill and I have problems going straight up I will cut back and forth and just make my own trail. or in a case where I have a big drift while climbing, I will "back blade" it and built a ramp of sorts to get past it.

we have found if you do get stuck (without winching) most** of the time you can sit and wait for 20 - 30 min and the snow will set up enough you can back out. again everything is different in each case. you can also "work" the snow like get out and pack areas with your boots and let it set up. I was very surprised how I could make "fluffy sugar snow" set up just by stomping around and letting it sit. (more so the case in getting a sled out then a cat) ok sorry about the mindless ramble LOL
 

mannix

Member
Got it, interesting. Yeah, variables abound - snow conditions, amount, density, etc. I broke a trail at Vail Pass about a month ago - the ski area claimed 18", Copper claimed 16", Copper and Vail sandwich Vail Pass, but the road I was on had WAY more than that. Traverse road, with a well groomed catroad underneath, so there was a flattish surface under there somewhere. A cornice had built up on the "down" side of the road, I got the sled behind that, rode the "tube" up the road. Even behind the drift, the snow was way over the head, could not see, throttle on the bar, could not really hear the sled, just stupid deep.

Toward the end of that traverse/sidehill, the road turns up and right - never steep, but I could _not_ see, and at the right turn, the ridge above lessens, so it was just a windloaded shoulder. I thought I was falling off, so I turned left, knowing I could get down to the next road.

UNBELIEVABLY deep. No way in anyway I could have ridden back up that path; the sled felt like a boat, the track it left looked like a kid scooped icing off the cake, just a rounded trough, using most of the throttle to propel the sled DOWNHILL, it was absurd.

So, yeah - there are certainly times that "going down" does not equal "going up," but under normal conditions, it sounds like a smartly executed trip down makes getting back up a possibility.

Thanks!


Iain
 

mtncrawler

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
There is a comercial cat ski operation working Jones pass keeping groomed roads cut in. Other than their packed road I don't think you will have much luck getting a snowcat close to the ridgeline in mid-winter conditions. In Colorado high altitude cold winter snowpack it usually takes several days for disturbed snow to harden up enough to support the weight of a snowcat. So no, don't expect to climb right out of that valley you drove into.
 
The Br100 would not be my first choice for a ski cat by a long stretch. As said before, 3 men is too tight especially if they are wearing heavy clothing of any kind. 3 people in deep snow at altitude is pushing the limit of the BR100, hanging anybody off the back or side and you will flounder hopelessly. The deep snow capabilities are ok and it will get you there but you have to use a lot of finesse as the nose tends to pitch up and it's steering become erratic. One technique in deep snow that works good, is to go strait as far as you can, then back up and steer the opposite direction you want to go so the cat rolls off camber which causes it to steer/pitch in the direction you do want to go.

The other thing that makes the BR100 a real workout in deep snow or tight maneuvering, like cutting a side hill, is the 4 speed transmission. It is tucked almost under your butt and your legs and arms are kept quite busy with steering, shifting, clutching and accelerating. Kinda like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest. The Br100+ with the auto has got to be a great improvement.

I am not sure what your budget is but there is/was a small tucker for sale down in Oregon/California or somewhere that is about the size of the BR100, but would be a little more comfortable and easier to drive.

http://reno.craigslist.org/rvs/2146784739.html
 

mannix

Member
Thanks! Mtncrawler - yeah, the catop at Jones is doing a good job with roads, although I don't THINK they're finishing the road to the saddle - they were not the last time I was over there (December), and last weekend, we did not venture out that way to see. The last stretch between the switchback and saddle/pass gets blown in REALLY fast, and cutting that with a cat would scare me - it'd undercut a pretty significant slope from a slide perspective. Combine "scary" with "have to do it over again next week," thanks to wind, well, yeah. I was using that as an example - hypothetical more than anything else.

Hrmph. Maybe a BR100+ is not the answer. Darnit. Back to the drawing board. Budget is undecided; I'm pretty mechanical and like projects, but I kinda want something that is going to run Right Now, too. Dunno. A project is probably a bad idea, as Northeastheavy said.

I've bought LOTS of old cars over the years, and even the ones that are not "projects" turn into one, I typically get a car & dig in pretty deep anyway. Not sure. I'm very familiar with cars, not cats, though, so, yeah, probably look for something that _needs_ little.

That Tucker looks pretty good, really.

Tucker question (I'll search, too) - do the rear tracks steer, too? Articulated in the middle, or are they (kinda) trucks with tracks? I know they go well beyond trucks with tracks, but you get the idea - from a steering perspective only.

Hrmph. Thanks for all the replies!


Iain
 
Top