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Polebarn question

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
I have never seen a pole barn nor do I fully understand them, so bear with me on this one.

I understand that posts are banged into the ground, and a roof put ontop of that.
The sides can then be clad, with metal or something.

Now, the question. I assume that the cladding doesnt reack all the way down into the ground, otherwise it would rust/rot. So the question is, what fills the gap between the cladding and the ground, to stop animals/draughts/water?

Any info on this is greatly appreciated.

If anyone has a barn of this sort with a dirt floor, and details of doors, and pointers would help.

As to why I ask, I have been 'needing' an extention on the shed for about a year. The other day a mate said he wouldnt mind helping if I kept him in drinks, and that spurred me into action. I've got plans, just need a few details.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
The "quality" of a pole barn differs greatly. I've seen some rough looking pole barns and some fancy looking pole barns. Basically, a pole barn just uses a few large poles as the main support structure. Everything from there depends on your budget and concerns about quality.

My old landlord could build a pole barn in a few days. Small animals would come and go as they please and the roof or siding would blow off in strong winds. But to him it was a thing of beauty and he had to build as many of them as possible. I think quantity was more important than quality to him.

; )

PB
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Oh yeah, local building code may or may not dictate the quality of the building. If you choose to follow the building codes.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
PB, I'm not actually building a pole barn, just building a shed. For whatever reason (mostly speed, and ease) its going to be a normal shed, with a dirt floor, but the side walls will be on short posts holding it off the ground to stop rot. Usually you would put it on some brick pillars, or on a concrete foundation, but I am not doing that.

As to building codes, its a 'temporary structure', or garden shed. i'm not talking about a 30x60' thing that you guys build, not a chance of doing that around here.

Really, its just that I cant figure out how to extend the wood siding to the ground, without the bottom of the siding rotting. What goes between the ground and the siding?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
As PB wrote, a pole barn can be made to different quality levels. Many have concrete floors and the walls are attached to a stringer that is bolted to a sill around the perimeter of the building.

Others have rock floors and I suppose some are dirt floor but I've not seen any of those near me (may not be allowed by code here?). I've seen rock floors pured up to the mid-point of the bottom stringer, that does a good job of keeping drafts out but I doubt it would stop mice. BTW, most are steel sided so rot is not an issue.

Personally if I didn't have a concrete or asphalt floor, I'd pour a small concrete slab at the doorway to give me a stable, level spot at the doorway.
 

daedong

New member
Mith, are you using steel or timber posts?

Concrete all posts above ground level, this will stop rusting off. To protect the outer sheets you will need to put a concrete edge on the inside of the sheets.
sheddrawing-1.jpg
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Or, just use pressured treated lumber for the bottom girt, as high as you need it, then just nail or screw the siding to that. Real simple. the bottom girt could be anything from a 2X4 to a 2x12, whatever ya need. I've done thm this way with both wood and steel siding. Then just backfill with some dirt, stones, whatever to make it look nice on the outside.:burp::burp::tiphat:
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have a pole barn that started out with a dirt floor. After one season with all the dirt / dust I put crush n run gravel in it. Mucho better than dirt. My siding is metal. It is run close to the ground, and then like John said I just backfilled with loose dirt. Tamped it down and have not had a problem with it. If your going wood I think John is right on. If you can get treated lumber for the bottom sections I think you'd be fine.
We used some 4x4 treated lumber for some dock posts and someone else used rough cut oak untreated. The rough cut oak is 16 years old now and it is being replaced this year. The treated 4x4's were put in the year before the rough cut oak, and are still going strong. They look as if they could go another 15 years. The rough oak posts eroded right at the water line. Some of them wore all the way through. Amazing to see.
 

daedong

New member
I have put dirt around the bottom of sheets on horse shelters, but do not recommend it. If you use galv/zinc putting dirt up against it will rust out for sure. Yet for some reason concrete against the sheets does not seem to effect the sheets.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Vin, I am banging in a metal post, the top of that will be just above ground level. The wooden frame that is the shed wall sits on top of a couple of those posts.

Think I'm gunna do roughly what John says. Gat some wood, and coat it in oil to stop it rusting. Then just backfill up to that. Put the siding down to that.

Theres no concrete involved in this, not allowed, otherwise it is a 'permanent structure' and I have to get permission to do it.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Jim; Don't you have pressuretreated lumber in the UK? Soaking that wood in oil will work for awhile, but pressuretreated should last any of our liftimes. If you use the "new" ACQ treated stuff, make sure you put something non-mettallic between the wood and metal siding, or the ACQ lumber will eat it up real quick. I usually use something like a rubberized tape, about 4" wide. It's the same stuff you use to sealup the nail flange on new construction windows. It works great, and when you punch a nail thru it, it self seals.:burp::burp::tiphat:
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mith said:
Think I'm gunna do roughly what John says. Gat some wood, and coat it in oil to stop it rusting. Then just backfill up to that. Put the siding down to that.
Jim,

You don't have to coat it in oil since wood won't rust. :whistle:

I do have to ask. Is this going to just sit on those posts you're driving into the ground or are they going to be secured somehow? Around here, (generally) when you secure it is when it becomes a permanent structure.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
John, you probably get pressure-treated, have to look into that.

Brian, it'll just be sitting on the posts, though maybe a screw through the post into the wall might be an idea.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mith said:
Brian, it'll just be sitting on the posts, though maybe a screw through the post into the wall might be an idea.
I would do something to secure it.

Being as it's a dirt floor, I'm thinking it has 3 complete walls but the opening door area doesn't allow the front 2 posts to attach to each other on the bottom. If they're not secured to each other to maintain an exact distance, they may move and make it whereby the door won't open/close correctly.

I haven't seen exactly what you have in mind, but without it being secured, can wind possibly move it (especially if it blows in the open door area)?
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Pic attached, hopefully it'll make it clearer.
It has 3 sides, the 4th being where it attaches to the current shed (well, not attached, but meets). There will be a door on the end wall, but it wont be open often.

Not sure about wind moving it, its gunna be pretty heavy. A couple screws at each post would hold it down OK.

DSCF0828.jpg
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mith said:
Vin, I am banging in a metal post, the top of that will be just above ground level.
Jim.

Are you driving a metal posts like this in?

For a shed, I would "think" they'll be strong enough to withstand the lateral movement but I do wonder about them lifting when the ground freezes/thaws.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Brian, yes, those almost exactly. It will be supported on 7 of them.

The ground doesnt freeze very much, or for very long, so I dont think it will be a problem so much.

Thanks for all your help.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
I see now myself. Jim, did think of just using 4X4's the length of the height of the wall? That way you could build it like a regular pole building, and I think it might stronger too. If I see it right, you're planning on nailing the bottom plate of the wall to the top of the posts? How large is this going to be. If I knew how to work this damn computer, I could send you a diagram of how I build pole buildings. Actually if I can find a photo of a polebuilding skeleton, I could post that. It's pretty self explaining once you see it. Just don't hurt or burn yurself mate, dinna wanna lose ya, eh.:yankchain::burp::burp::tiphat:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Just found a photo of one of the neighbors barns under construvtion upnorth. I'll try and post it. Hey, I'm a genius, how bout dat!!!!
 

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OhioTC18

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
That's almost identical to what one member here, jwstewar, did with his pole barn. I was there for half of the truss setting. His beam was longer, maybe 12-16 feet. It was a blast to see his TC24 lift those trusses into place.
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Jerry, I haven't seen any of this in perrson, his wife just sent that to me. Would you beleive the only help he has had was in setting the posts? I think I'd rather set the posts bymyself, and then get a hand to help with the rest, especially those bloody roof sheathing panals and shingles.:yum::burp::burp::tiphat:
 

OhioTC18

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I think there was 6 or so of us setting trusses that day. 3 on the ground/tractor and 3 up in the barn. I was doing some guiding with ropes while in the air and then would occasionally climb up to help with the placement of them.
 

SNOW WOLF TRACS

New member
MITH...IN ANSWERE TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, A POLE BARN IS SIMPLY PUT MADE OUT OF DISCARDED OR DAMADGED TELEPHONE/ELECTRIC/UTILITY POLES. THE POLES ARE TREATED WITH IETHER A CREASOTE OR OTHER TYPE OF WOOD PRESERVATIVE. ALMOST ALL ARE PINE. THEY ARE SET INTO HOLES IN THE GROUND THAT ARE DUG BY HAND OR EQUIPMENT AND THEN THE DIRT IS BACK FILLED AROUND THE BASE AND TAMPED AS BEST POSSIBLE. IF YOU RECIEVE THESE TYPES OF POLES OR DECIDE TO USE THESE FOR YOUR "POLE BARN", BE AWARE THAT YOU DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FIRST 10' FROM THE ORIGINAL BASE(BOTTOIM/FAT END) OF THESE POLES.
 

SNOW WOLF TRACS

New member
(CON'T) THESE ARE USUALLY, AFTER A SPECIFIED NUMBER OF YEARS, GIVEN ADDITIONAL TREATMENTS OF PRESERVATIVES WHICH ARE EXTREMELY TOXIC AND DANGEROUS. YOU WILL NOTICE A SPECIAL TAG ON THE POLE (I.E. "MITZIFUME") HAVING A COMPANY NAME AND DATE STAMP. YOU MAY ALSO SEE A ROUND PLUG INSERTED INTO THE POLE. THIS IS WERE A CHEMICAL SLOW RELEASE VILE HAS BEEN PLACED. CUT ALL OF YOUR POLES ABOVE THIS PLUG AND DISCARD THE LOWER PORTION OF THE POLE(PREFERABLY BACK TO THE UTILITY CO. THAT YOU "AQUIRED"THEM FROM).
 

SNOW WOLF TRACS

New member
( CONT.) AFTER THAT, YOU CAN SET YOUR POLES INTO THE GROUND. DEPTH SETTINGS ARE UP TO YOU. GENERAL RULE OF THUMB IS 5' FEET INTO THE GROUND FOR UP TO 25' ABOVE GROUND AND 6' INTO THE GROUND FOR UP TO 40' OF HEIGHT ABOVE GROUND. AFTER THAT, WHATEVER TYPES OF FRAMING OR ROOFING YOU WISH TO USE IS UP TO YOU. YOU CAN FRAME AND ROOF TRUSS WITH THE SAME OR USE STANDARD COMERCIAL MATERIALS. AS LONG AS YOU USE POLES, THEN IT'S TRUELLY A POLE BARN!
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
John, I am planning to make actual panels out of wood for all 3 walls. The post that Brian showed, I will cut 2 sides off the bit where the post normally slides in, so the bottom of the walls sits in it like a cradle.
Its going to be 14x10'. I dont think I can bang the actual posts of the shed into the ground, because I dont have the tools, and I think then it is permanent, and then I would have to get planning perission, which isnt going to happen.
As to using 4x4s for all of it, will ya lend me some money? :yum:
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Jim, what you're planning would likely work. Just make sure the building isn't wobbly. You may need to brace it with diagonal bracing, it's no big deal to do. When you apply your siding panals, that'll help stiffen it up too.:thumb::burp::burp::tiphat:
 
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