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Should I take up small scale farming?

Melensdad

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Simple quesiton: Should I take up small scale farming? I have a 32 acre field behind my house that will no longer be leased to a farmer. That leaves me with the ability to become a real, but very small scale, farmer. All 32 acres is currently in crop so I won't have to reclaim overgrown land.

Can I break even on 32 acres as a part time farmer? This would be corn & soybeans.
Will I simply end up buying a larger tractor and losing my butt in the process?
Is there any way to do this on a small scale other than to become a "market farmer" (which is more time intensive than I can devote)?
BTW the 32 acres is owned by my neighborhood association, 12 lots share it, I own 2 lots, nobody else would be interested so I get it if I want it.
 

DaveNay

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B_Skurka said:
Will I simply end up buying a larger tractor and losing my butt in the process?

** DING DING DING ***

Does this make it wrong? Nope.

:drama:
 

Melensdad

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Dave, you actually do real farming don't you?

How much do you farm? What do you farm? Etc?

Anyone else fall into the hobby farmer category?
 

DaveNay

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B_Skurka said:
Dave, you actually do real farming don't you?

No, I don't. I just happen to have neighbors who do have large scale farming, and I make a point of talking with them to find out how things are going every year. Most of the guys I have talked with this year are saying that due to the drought, they are loosing between $100-$150 per acre on corn. Last year was a record year for corn production around here, and the yields were about 190 bu per acre. At this years price ($1.70/bu), that would be about $323 per acre gross. After counting fuel for planting and harvesting as well as pesticide/herbicide application and soil ammendments, there is not much left over to put in the pocket. As a distributor you are well aware of the economies of scale when it comes to this kind of operation, you can reverse this and extrapolate what it would be like on your 32 acres. IF you were able to get the same yield off your acreage that they can get from a couple thousand (unlikely IMHO), then your maximum annual gross would only be $10K. In a year like this year, that can drop 50% or more. When counting capital equipment purchases (32 acres is a little large for hand harvesting :eek:) I think you ROI would be longer that you would want.

This of course is based on a crop of dent (field) corn. Sweet corn would be more profitable, but is more difficult to get the timing right to harvest & sell.

Soybeans require specialized harvesting equipment that is probably more expensive even than corn.

Maybe a 32 acre pumpkin patch? Hire out the planting, and then let the entire town come in to pick their own?
 

Melensdad

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DaveNay said:
Maybe a 32 acre pumpkin patch? Hire out the planting, and then let the entire town come in to pick their own?


Access to the field prevents that. There is no way to get to the field except through my yard or the yards of my neighbors. Also complicating things is the fact that the field is low, the road is high and no good access except by a tractor or similar vehicle.

Any farming would have to be with the full consent of at least one property owner and it would require the farm equipment going through the yard. Ideally it could produce veggies like tomatoes, or even pumpkins, but public harvest is completely out of the question. Manual harvesting (transient farm workers, etc) would work, but again only with the consent of at least one property owner (in this case me).

I'm just not sure what I'd like to do with it and what the real options are.
 

bczoom

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I'm not big on the CRP type programs in that it locks your land for several years. I've never been in on it but understand the rental payments you receive are normally less then what you can rent the land out for.

Why is it no longer going to be leased to the current farmer?

How about a Christmas tree farm? Buy a bunch of trees (this I do get from the government) and stick them in the ground. Mow between/around them once in awhile and that's about it. Once they start to get to the correct size cut down a bunch and arrange for sellers to take to market (at those stands or whatever).

Planting and mowing can be done with your tractor. Ask Dargo to come over and plant as he has a lot of experience doing it after this spring.
 

Melensdad

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bczoom said:
I'm not big on the CRP type programs in that it locks your land for several years.

That is not a problem.


bczoom said:
Why is it no longer going to be leased to the current farmer?

That is a longer story than even I care to type.

bczoom said:
How about a Christmas tree farm? . . . Planting and mowing can be done with your tractor.

Actually that would work, I hadn't thought of someting like that.


bczoom said:
Ask Dargo to come over and plant as he has a lot of experience doing it after this spring.

Ok well that is just mean! I like it. But it is just mean. Especially since I'd really prefer to have a volunteer who was successful at planting thousands of trees :whistle:
 

bczoom

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B_Skurka said:
[Ok well that is just mean! I like it. But it is just mean. Especially since I'd really prefer to have a volunteer who was successful at planting thousands of trees :whistle:
You're right... it was mean although I think justified.

I just got done reading this in the other thread
Dargo said:
Pool party...:beer: :sun1: Pay no attention to any further posts that may appear today...:D
It's in the 40's, raining and flat out miserable here. He's in Hawaii putting down those funny drinks with the umbrellas. I'm just flat out jealous.
 

Big Dog

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Like Xmas trees, consider berries or grapes! I can see it now Skurka's Spumante, Wine, Spirits and Jelly....:D

Another consideration.................TAXES
 

Melensdad

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I almost wonder if I couldn't put out X-Mas tree babies . . . then sign the land up for CRP for 5 or 10 years?

BTW, the neighborhood pays the tax bill.
 

bczoom

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B_Skurka said:
I almost wonder if I couldn't put out X-Mas tree babies . . . then sign the land up for CRP for 5 or 10 years?

BTW, the neighborhood pays the tax bill.
That sounds like it could be a nice approach. Plant the trees, collect "rent" money and then when you get it back, start harvesting.

A couple things about the CRP. I think 10 years is minimum. Also don't know what they'll think of the trees as a cash-crop and won't let you in the program.

On 35 acres, you can get a lot of trees. Not sure how the neighbors want in on it but you could do something like offer them first-choice Christmas trees for themselves and 9 friends/family members for their contribution.

Obviously, if you do take the tree approach, get some more details. There's a technique on planting distances and such to make it where when you cut down one, you have a place next to it to plant a new one to take its place without having to rip out the stumps.
 

Dargo

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Okay, so I spent a few hundred hours of my time on my hands and knees planting right at 5000 trees that all died due to a severe drought. :smileywac It was a wonderful experience to get to know my inner-self (since all help left me after the first few hundred trees). You may be able to have the same sort of enjoyable experience if you choose to farm by hand; without aid of your tractor.

Funny that you mention this. I received a letter in the mail from a guy who wanted to know if I may be interested in leasing out a hundred acres or so for farming since it appears that I'm not doing anything with the land at this time. :mad: Apparently he didn't notice the thousands of dead saplings where I was "not doing anything"!

Oh well, off to here http://www.pgamediacenter.com/ for the day. The course closes late next week for preparation for the "PGA Grand Slam of Golf". I'll likely leave a few dozens of balls for the crowd to step on while watching the event. :tiphat:
 

OregonAlex

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Bob,

are there any timber species to you plant in Ohio? if we had 32 spare acres out here, the answer would be simple for me. Doug Fir.
Maybe in Ohio it would be something like Pine?

the thing I like about trees is that they are a bit of effort for a few years but then you just sit back and let them grow.

I don't have much interest in x-mas trees because they seem like a lot more work. Plus something aint right when you spend so much time caring for a tree and it is just used for a few weeks and then pitched into the dumpster. What a waste.
 

bczoom

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OregonAlex said:
I don't have much interest in x-mas trees because they seem like a lot more work. Plus something aint right when you spend so much time caring for a tree and it is just used for a few weeks and then pitched into the dumpster. What a waste.
Alex,

I've heard many of the Christmas tree farms have changed to live trees.
They bring the root ball out with the tree, bag it with burlap then put it in a biodegradable pot. When people are done using it for the holidays, they plant it in the yard.
They charge a bit more for this but more than make up for it. Since it's been balled and potted, to get a 8' tall tree, it's really only 6' above ground level. That shortens their growing requirements and they have faster turnaround.

Brian
 

OkeeDon

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I know a teensy, little bit about Xmas trees, because the cabin I'm selling is located in Ashe County, North Carolina, the Fraser Fir Xmas Tree capital of the country. The first thing I know is that you probably won't be able to grow Fraser Firs; like wine grapes, they seem to like certain elevations and temperature variations, and Northwest North Carolina is pretty close to being ideal.

I also went to college for my first two years in central Pennsylvnia, which claims to be the Xmas Tree capital of the country for almost all other varieties other than Fraser Fir; primarily White Pine.

In Ashe County, NC, everyone who has an acre or more is involved in growing trees. School teachers, bank managers, hardware store owners and just about everyone else takes their vacation in the weeks prior to Thanksgiving to cut and bale the trees. Any space that has enough room for semi-trailers to turn around has a staging area for the trees. Small farmers roll into town with trees tied to a trailer and their pickup truck, dozens of trees precariously balanced and weighing them down almost to the ground. It's an enormous industry, and almost always lucrative.

I also learned quite a bit about it because for years, I rented a Ryder truck and bought a truckload of trees to bring back to Florida and sell. I bought my trees from the bank manager and his brother.

You'll have to research which varieties are possible to grow in your area, and which of those are most valuable. As bczoom mentioned, spacing is important, and placing the new tree next to the stump of the old is exactly what they do. Other than occasional mowing and some fertilizing in the early days, the greatest effort is required for trimming. I don't know the frequency, but high school and college kids work the fields as summer jobs, pruning and shaping the trees for the greatest value. Back in the day when I was selling the trees, perhaps 10 years ago, the kids were getting something like 25 cents per tree.

Because of the location of the field, you would probably want to spend a little more time mowing and weeding to keep the field looking attractive. You should need any additional equipment, although you might check to see if a tree shear would be effective and not damage the tree. Otherwise, you'll need several good chain saws. They cut as close to the ground as possible. You'll also most likely need a bailing machine, although it's possible you might find a single buyer who will come through and bale and load your trees on his trucks.

Most of the trees I saw being harvested in Ashe County came out through someone's yard, so that shouldn't be a problem. A rugged trailer to pull behind your tractor should get them out; your NH could pull the baler through the field.

Timing will depend on the variety you grow, but generally it takes 6 to 10 years, depending on variety and size, to get your first return. The trick is to plant only 10% of your field the first year, then add another 10% each year until you have the whole thing on a rotation. Figure maybe 3 acres per year, with the extra 2 acres (or 32) spread around for access. I forget how many trees you can get per acre, but it's a right decent number, 1500 to 2000 if I recall correctly. That could give you 4000 to 6000 trees per year to harvest...:eek::cool:

For marketing, the "cut it yourself" approach is out for you, but depending on the quality of your trees, there are a couple of other approaches. Research and find the folks who market to the big box stores and sell your entire crop, sight unseen, for a lower price. Or, make contact with the folks in your area who sell directly to the public, and market directly to them. In our area, that ranges from individual Rotary Clubs and small retailers with one location like I was, up to large retailers with chains of locations.

The toughest thing I can see, providing there is a marketable vaierty that will grow in your area, is locating the folks who know what they're doing and are willing to share with you.
 
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DaveNay

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Hey, what about good quality hay for horses? I know that there are lots of horses in your area, and over into IL. We get about 100 bales per acre per cutting from our 10 acres. For you that means about 9600 bales per year. Good quality horse hay can go for as much as $3.50 per bale (delivered and stacked). I have even heard of hay down in Florida going for as much as $12-$15 per bale, making a flatbed semi load of 400 bales profitable to transport all that distance. Even if you sold it locally, picked up from your field not delivered for $2.00 per bale, that is $19,200 per year. The planting of the alfafa/timothy can be contracted out, and doesn't need to be re-planted (overseed) for years. A larger tractor, mower, rake, and baler can be had for $10K-$15K used.
 

OregonAlex

New member
bczoom said:
Alex,

I've heard many of the Christmas tree farms have changed to live trees.
They bring the root ball out with the tree, bag it with burlap then put it in a biodegradable pot. When people are done using it for the holidays, they plant it in the yard.
They charge a bit more for this but more than make up for it. Since it's been balled and potted, to get a 8' tall tree, it's really only 6' above ground level. That shortens their growing requirements and they have faster turnaround.

Brian
Brian,

Yes... I like that.. we have many X-Mas tree planted on our property which we dug up at a local X-Mas tree farm. The xmax tree lot owner, thinks it is great and wishes more people did it. Lots of work however.
 

bczoom

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OregonAlex said:
Lots of work however.
Not really for the grower as most have all the equipment.
For the purchaser, it's a bit more difficult. Hard to throw it on top of a car, dig a hole (if you didn't do the planning before the ground froze), as well as carry it in since it's now triple the weight as one without the ball.
 

OregonAlex

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bczoom said:
Not really for the grower as most have all the equipment.
For the purchaser, it's a bit more difficult. Hard to throw it on top of a car, dig a hole (if you didn't do the planning before the ground froze), as well as carry it in since it's now triple the weight as one without the ball.

yes.. we take the pickup and a few shovels. The ground doesn't really ever freeze around here, most of the problem turns out to be the mud (it sometimes rains here in the Pac-NW *grin*). We normally get back complete covered in mud. We learned quickly to pick smaller trees to dig up both because the effort is exponential to the tree size. In addition, the root ball dug out with a small tree can easily hit the ceiling in the living room as it seems like a 1/3 of the tree height is the root ball. We have learned to try to fit the rootball in those round rubbermaid tubs with nylon handles on the sides. makes it much easier to move the tree around. And to properly condition the tree both to the warmth of the house and back outside takes a lot of moving. A few more years of this and I think I will just decorate the trees outside and call it good. :whistle:

-Alex
 

OregonAlex

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Dargo said:
Okay, so I spent a few hundred hours of my time on my hands and knees planting right at 5000 trees that all died due to a severe drought. :smileywac

Dargo,
sorry to hear about this.. I had a similiar problem two years ago when I tried to plant about 100 cedar. Pretty sure not a single one made it. Next time, I think will just pay the "pros" to plant them. I do recall it wan't very expensive to have someone else do it. I think around 25 cents for the tree and maybe another quarter to plant them.
 
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