All Country Mark stations buy their crude from midwest producers, mostly in the S IL oil basin. It is also refined in Mt. Vernon, IN. I buy about 90% of my fuel from them. It's too bad that they too had to start adding ethanol to their fuel.
-
Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/
Do you run a gas/alcohol mix in your vehicles?
- Thread starter Dargo
- Start date
All Country Mark stations buy their crude from midwest producers, mostly in the S IL oil basin. It is also refined in Mt. Vernon, IN. I buy about 90% of my fuel from them. It's too bad that they too had to start adding ethanol to their fuel.
Dargo,
We make ethanol from corn, not methaol. Methanol is really corrosive and has compatability issues that make it more like battery acid in your fuel system.....Ethanol is much more benign, and friendly with most seals gaskets made in the last 10 or so years...
Guys see what I mean? You don't know about the grain futures market, you reley on hearsay from others to form your opinons/thinking, you insist on comparing the energy of E00 to ethanol even though we know there is a bit less energy in ethanol and one can expect less milage....no one bothers to caluculate $ per mile, no they don't seem to understand THIS IS THE ONLY WAY ethanol competes with E00....
You guys don't get it at all. Now we are confusing what KIND of alcohol we were having this diciscussion about?????? Give me a break allready.....
come back when you know enough to enter this dicission with a lowly farmer....
I said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, and I'll say it again, but this time I will mean it.....Geesshhh the general public is amazing when left to it's own devices....what it can come up with...
Regards, Kirk
We make ethanol from corn, not methaol. Methanol is really corrosive and has compatability issues that make it more like battery acid in your fuel system.....Ethanol is much more benign, and friendly with most seals gaskets made in the last 10 or so years...
Guys see what I mean? You don't know about the grain futures market, you reley on hearsay from others to form your opinons/thinking, you insist on comparing the energy of E00 to ethanol even though we know there is a bit less energy in ethanol and one can expect less milage....no one bothers to caluculate $ per mile, no they don't seem to understand THIS IS THE ONLY WAY ethanol competes with E00....
You guys don't get it at all. Now we are confusing what KIND of alcohol we were having this diciscussion about?????? Give me a break allready.....come back when you know enough to enter this dicission with a lowly farmer....I said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, and I'll say it again, but this time I will mean it.....Geesshhh the general public is amazing when left to it's own devices....what it can come up with...
Regards, Kirk
loboloco
Well-known member
Sorry Kirk, but not all of us rely on what is best for a few farmers. Even the government reports show ethanol to be one of the largest boondoggles ever to come down the agri welfare pipe.Dargo,
We make ethanol from corn, not methaol. Methanol is really corrosive and has compatability issues that make it more like battery acid in your fuel system.....Ethanol is much more benign, and friendly with most seals gaskets made in the last 10 or so years...
Guys see what I mean? You don't know about the grain futures market, you reley on hearsay from others to form your opinons/thinking, you insist on comparing the energy of E00 to ethanol even though we know there is a bit less energy in ethanol and one can expect less milage....no one bothers to caluculate $ per mile, no they don't seem to understand THIS IS THE ONLY WAY ethanol competes with E00....
I said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, and I'll say it again, but this time I will mean it.....Geesshhh the general public is amazing when left to it's own devices....what it can come up with...
Regards, Kirk
Dargo,
I have taken apart alot of engines...Have a large lathe and a vertical mill in my shop...I bet I have the only HIE distributor on the planet that looks stock and is fully needle bearing equipted...I know as much as most anyone I encounter about metalurgy, welding, and engine building. I know other who have built many engines as well. I have not ever heard anyone say anything about what E10 is doing to thier eingines. Ever.
Regards Kirk
I have taken apart alot of engines...Have a large lathe and a vertical mill in my shop...I bet I have the only HIE distributor on the planet that looks stock and is fully needle bearing equipted...I know as much as most anyone I encounter about metalurgy, welding, and engine building. I know other who have built many engines as well. I have not ever heard anyone say anything about what E10 is doing to thier eingines. Ever.
Regards Kirk
Last edited:
Ah yes our resident non farming farmer is here once again. Funny he doesn't want to say what he does...even given the chance....So how about it?
You broke general forum rule number 1. When you say you are done posting in a thread - and come back and post... your credibility is minimized. I've seen this same thing play out before. You post again hoping someone all of a sudden posts to support your view. Re-read what was said up to this point.
Oh, buy the way. My side WON this argement long ago in congress. You guys lost way back then, or so you think.....
This it seams would qualifie you as cry babies and whiners in most folks's eyes it would seem. Time to get over it and move on to some other burr under your saddles.....
Kirk out....
This it seams would qualifie you as cry babies and whiners in most folks's eyes it would seem. Time to get over it and move on to some other burr under your saddles.....
Kirk out....
Could you be more specific in whom you are referring to as I maybe others do not now who may be.
They "won"???
I just received notice yesterday from a company that administers the factory warranty for Toro, Cub Cadet and several others that your factory warranty is void if you use E15 in their machines.
That's really winning....
Unless, of course, you consider making the middle class and poor do without since they won't be able to afford to buy all new equipment as winning.
loboloco
Well-known member
I think he might be referring to me, since I have several times called him on his 'super ag' is all line.
To answer, I was born, raised and worked on a family farm until I joined the army. After, my return and while still serving, I bought land and established a small farm of my own. I have worked in crop production, cattle operations, swine operations, poultry operations, greenhouses, both construction and operation, and hydroponics. I have also built and operated methane, ethanol and hydrogen production machines.
Also, I have installed and maintained solar energy systems for fencing operations.
So, Kirk, this experience gives me a basis for challenging your assertions that a bad product, bribed from congress by agribusiness, manufactured using the least efficient base product available, incapable of matching the BTU output of the fuel it is designed to replace, and costing too much to be sold commercially without government price supports is a bad deal for both the American consumer and the majority of farmers.
Trakternut
Active member
Even if ethanol were financially feasible, the green factor is kaput!
Corn is planted using diesel fuel.
Corn is sprayed with pesticides, etc, using carbon fuels
Corn is harvested, using diesel fuel
Corn is transported to market using diesel fuel
Corn is shipped to the ethanol plants using diesel fuel.
Corn is processed at the ethanol plants using carbon fuel to cook it off.
Where is the green factor again?
Corn is planted using diesel fuel.
Corn is sprayed with pesticides, etc, using carbon fuels
Corn is harvested, using diesel fuel
Corn is transported to market using diesel fuel
Corn is shipped to the ethanol plants using diesel fuel.
Corn is processed at the ethanol plants using carbon fuel to cook it off.
Where is the green factor again?
So here we go again,
You forget one very important, and the single biggest energy source in all of this. And it is free... Anyone care to take the time to figure out what that source is?
It's the sun, and those less than knowledgable would leave this one out to prove their point. The solar energy is not being accounted for in naysayeers calculations, yet is the the single biggesst source of energy, and millions of acers of corn soak it in all day, all growing season long. So there, throw this into your "net" engergy equations, and see what falls out.
You folks know too much, I wonn't tell you more, (you know it all remember?) except you are missing the point...
Do you reasearch, and don't forget the major engergy sources, OK?
Kirk
You forget one very important, and the single biggest energy source in all of this. And it is free... Anyone care to take the time to figure out what that source is?
It's the sun, and those less than knowledgable would leave this one out to prove their point. The solar energy is not being accounted for in naysayeers calculations, yet is the the single biggesst source of energy, and millions of acers of corn soak it in all day, all growing season long. So there, throw this into your "net" engergy equations, and see what falls out.
You folks know too much, I wonn't tell you more, (you know it all remember?) except you are missing the point...
Do you reasearch, and don't forget the major engergy sources, OK?
Kirk
Last edited:
Also don't forget to pencil in that we get a high protein feed, DDG's off the back side of the ethanol production. Most fail to recognize this important by product that makes animal feed. Stach is all that is removed from corn to make ethanol. Corn is much more than just starch.....Pimmentel and other at LIB U. (U.C. berkley) is like you guys, dosen't get it, and was funded by anti ethanol groups. They had their day in congress, and were laughed out of the gallery...
Kirk
Kirk
loboloco
Well-known member
Ok, how do you release this gargantuan energy source? No, Kirk, the reason no one includes this is because it is irrelevant to the problem.
However, if you really want to compare this, take corn and burn it, calculating the BTU's released. Then compare that to the BTU's of whatever source you want to replace it with. If you want to replace all those acres of corn with solar cells, then you can use the solar energy as a basic calculation, otherwise you are only throwing out a false argument to attempt to justify a failing policy.
loboloco
Well-known member
And this high protein feed is cheaper andmore easily used by feed animals when they consume cracked or ground corn with the starch in it. One of the reasons that Kelp has begun to replace corn and corn by-products in animal feeds.
Texas A&M. and Clemson both disagree with your position. Were they bought off by the anti ethanol groups too? Or, did they actually do a little research and determine that the pro ethanol groups were full of horse puckey?
Wow, so corn just stores energy from the sun? I guess you don't fertilize it with fertilizers that are created from natural gas. You don't have to pump the water to crops, you don't use engines to plant, tend, and harvest?
I've been growing my backyard corn all wrong then.
The fundamental issue at hand is choice. There is not choice as to whether or not we can use non-ethanol fuels. The ethanol decision was born of backroom lobbying and is representative of all that is wrong with our government.
I've been growing my backyard corn all wrong then.
The fundamental issue at hand is choice. There is not choice as to whether or not we can use non-ethanol fuels. The ethanol decision was born of backroom lobbying and is representative of all that is wrong with our government.
Oil is stored sunlight, so how does sunlight not factor in?
You guys are killing me here....
all life comes, and all forms of energy came from it, the sun on this planet, unless you are from some other planet...
Al Gore fails to realize the souce of heat in our universe is the sun...you guys aren't believing him are ya?
Go back to school....
and don't call yourself a farmer untill your very financial survival is in tied to the CBOT or the Merk.....Your are not at risk are you?
Kirk
You guys are killing me here....
all life comes, and all forms of energy came from it, the sun on this planet, unless you are from some other planet...
Al Gore fails to realize the souce of heat in our universe is the sun...you guys aren't believing him are ya?
Go back to school....
and don't call yourself a farmer untill your very financial survival is in tied to the CBOT or the Merk.....Your are not at risk are you?
Kirk
Last edited:
loboloco
Well-known member
Kirk, solar input on crops is a specious argument. What matters is the end product BTU.Oil is stored sunlight, so how does sunlight not factor in?
You guys are killing me here....
all life comes, and all forms of energy came from it, the sun on this planet, unless you are from some other planet...
Al Gore fails to realize the souce of heat in our universe is the sun...you guys aren't believing him are ya?
Go back to school....
and don't call yourself a farmer untill your very financial survival is in tied to the CBOT or the Merk.....Your are not at risk are you?
Kirk
Since a large percentage of my income presently comes from farming and farm related work I guess I can legitimately call myself a farmer.
Can you?
This continuous attempt to ignore the factual evidence and create false arguments does not do you or your cause any good.
When you can present CBA's that offset the reduced mileage and extra maintenance requirements that ethanol causes then I will gladly listen to and (if they are correct) support you. But until you can do so, I suggest you keep your arguments to personal attacks, as you are doing currently, or attempting to cloud the issue with non relevant information.
Beating you head against a wall, Loboloco. Let it go. Corn is his livelihood. Telling him it is a looser for an energy source will go nowhere.
As long as the government subsidies are there to pay for it, it will continue to be produced, it will continue to take more energy to produce and refine that it contains and it will continue to destroy fuel systems...
As long as the government subsidies are there to pay for it, it will continue to be produced, it will continue to take more energy to produce and refine that it contains and it will continue to destroy fuel systems...
loboloco
Well-known member
Yep, but being a farmer, he should at least have the moral fortitude to admit he is stealing the taxpayers and consumers blind instead of acting as if he is trying to spread some higher truth. I got enough of that from Internet Al.
loboloco,
You should know about personal attacks....Every time I posted in a thread related to this issue and Ag in general you have posted some two line, two bit, rant, anti everthing I am as a farmer statement into the mix. The only reson we are where we are with one another is because I give this same treatment right back at you, some thing you are obviously not used to.
Treat me, and my occupation with resepect, and I wouldn't have to be typing you this. It has been and continues to be a situation where you actually dislike me much more than could ever be possible by simply posting on the internet. You aparrently have a very big "burr under your saddle" and I sure as h--l didn't put it there. So don't tell me about personal attacks, your the king of that.
Now if you care to look, there is plenty of eveidence to counter every argument you have raised on the internet as well as the negative you kling to. I don't have the time you guys obviously have to look, and bring links here for your pleasure, but I know a quick google search will show you better than I can why ethanol is sustainable, and is in fact an industry that makes sence as a piece of the puzzle we need to build to rid ourselves of imported oil.
Later, Kirk
You should know about personal attacks....Every time I posted in a thread related to this issue and Ag in general you have posted some two line, two bit, rant, anti everthing I am as a farmer statement into the mix. The only reson we are where we are with one another is because I give this same treatment right back at you, some thing you are obviously not used to.
Treat me, and my occupation with resepect, and I wouldn't have to be typing you this. It has been and continues to be a situation where you actually dislike me much more than could ever be possible by simply posting on the internet. You aparrently have a very big "burr under your saddle" and I sure as h--l didn't put it there. So don't tell me about personal attacks, your the king of that.Now if you care to look, there is plenty of eveidence to counter every argument you have raised on the internet as well as the negative you kling to. I don't have the time you guys obviously have to look, and bring links here for your pleasure, but I know a quick google search will show you better than I can why ethanol is sustainable, and is in fact an industry that makes sence as a piece of the puzzle we need to build to rid ourselves of imported oil.
Later, Kirk
tsaw,
I know he is very well educated. I too have read and liked his posts, when he takes the time to fully write his thoughts down. Funny I really think we may have alot in common too. But he has treated me, with only 2 hundred posts, like Sh#@ in every post I make about anything Ag related...Like WTF did I do to him? I am really quite a reasonable fellow, and I am told likeable fellow, but I ain't gonna be pushed around either....
I don't have any idea why he is this way to me, but I don't like it so I give it back to where it came. (Works with my kids too by the way!)
Nope there is a preconcived image he has of me and he hates me for it. I know I didn't earn it here.
Best regards, Kirk
I know he is very well educated. I too have read and liked his posts, when he takes the time to fully write his thoughts down. Funny I really think we may have alot in common too. But he has treated me, with only 2 hundred posts, like Sh#@ in every post I make about anything Ag related...Like WTF did I do to him? I am really quite a reasonable fellow, and I am told likeable fellow, but I ain't gonna be pushed around either....
I don't have any idea why he is this way to me, but I don't like it so I give it back to where it came. (Works with my kids too by the way!)
Nope there is a preconcived image he has of me and he hates me for it. I know I didn't earn it here.
Best regards, Kirk
You're right. Let's just set aside the fact that alcohol destroys any vehicle older than about 2 years old and will hang huge repair bills on the necks of those who cannot afford them or force them to try to buy new cars they cannot afford. Let's just look at how poor corn is for a fuel source. Plain and simple, it's a losing proposition; end of argument.
If our main crop here was sugar cane, then that wouldn't be the case. It would be efficient enough to pursue and the government could help those in need modify their vehicles to run on less efficient alcohol or to buy new cars made to do so. As it is, it's simply a tax on those of us who pay taxes and a beating to those who can't afford to buy new cars and equipment. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dargo,
I don't want to think of you as a lier....So please post some proof of engine damage. Pictures would be nice.....
I was hunting with a group this weekend, 8 in all, most from Des Moines. At lunch I asked how many of them had used E10 for how long. All of us agreed that we had been using it since the late 70's in all of our vehicals. I asked how many have had a fuel related problem. NONE not ONE instance of a fuel related problem. None of could even remember ever having heard of a problem.....I know of one, but that was rellated to a retailer who had water in his fuel tank to begin with.
So lets see some proof....cause I don't think there is any to back up your hate for our home grown product. Anyone can spew hate at a group or product. Proving it with actual facts, instead of hearsay is a bit tougher. You guys just like to hate anything that doesn't benifit you. Sour grapes and sore loosers?
Now I know what the jews in europe where up against with the hate others generated against them.(yes you guys are that bad) You guys have no problem ganging up on some one that you hardly know, bashing his ocupation and an industry it supports. Hell to tell the truth I almost never take corn to an ethanol plant. All of mine goes to a food grade processor and you guys drink it as Busch beer...oh no now you will be attacking that as a gubberment conspearacy too? I don't own stock in an ethanol plant either.....
I have been on other forums with a mob of haters just like this one.....But at least they were able to listen, reason for themselves....And some slowly admitted that they were saying things they had heard from others...no actual experiance on their part.
Others simply refused to look for information that is out there on the net that tells the other story of how ethanol is a big help with air polution, and reducing our dependance on forgein oil. (Nazi/jew thing?)Thanks to the oil industry, large parts of our underground water sources are now contaminated with the carcinagen MTBE that will haunt us for years to come, rendering wells unsafe to drink from. This is the reson we have ethanol....The petro guys were fast in the process of killing off their customers, for generations to come. Don't you guys get that?
And last but not least, all of the money that has and will flow outside our borders to folks that hate us, and our way of life. They are in a "jihad" or holy war against us, and lets not pretent here, it is a war about their oil. I don't think our humanitarian aid ploy is a good excuse, it's about their oil, and we need it, they have it, and they know it.
So rev up your hate engines and spin some more this way...I got a shovel, I'll dig myself out and dust myself off when you are done.
Rough crowd here....but I can handle it...can You?
Regards, Kirk
I don't want to think of you as a lier....So please post some proof of engine damage. Pictures would be nice.....
I was hunting with a group this weekend, 8 in all, most from Des Moines. At lunch I asked how many of them had used E10 for how long. All of us agreed that we had been using it since the late 70's in all of our vehicals. I asked how many have had a fuel related problem. NONE not ONE instance of a fuel related problem. None of could even remember ever having heard of a problem.....I know of one, but that was rellated to a retailer who had water in his fuel tank to begin with.
So lets see some proof....cause I don't think there is any to back up your hate for our home grown product. Anyone can spew hate at a group or product. Proving it with actual facts, instead of hearsay is a bit tougher. You guys just like to hate anything that doesn't benifit you. Sour grapes and sore loosers?
Now I know what the jews in europe where up against with the hate others generated against them.
(yes you guys are that bad) You guys have no problem ganging up on some one that you hardly know, bashing his ocupation and an industry it supports. Hell to tell the truth I almost never take corn to an ethanol plant. All of mine goes to a food grade processor and you guys drink it as Busch beer...oh no now you will be attacking that as a gubberment conspearacy too? I don't own stock in an ethanol plant either.....I have been on other forums with a mob of haters just like this one.....But at least they were able to listen, reason for themselves....And some slowly admitted that they were saying things they had heard from others...no actual experiance on their part.
Others simply refused to look for information that is out there on the net that tells the other story of how ethanol is a big help with air polution, and reducing our dependance on forgein oil. (Nazi/jew thing?)Thanks to the oil industry, large parts of our underground water sources are now contaminated with the carcinagen MTBE that will haunt us for years to come, rendering wells unsafe to drink from. This is the reson we have ethanol....The petro guys were fast in the process of killing off their customers, for generations to come. Don't you guys get that?
And last but not least, all of the money that has and will flow outside our borders to folks that hate us, and our way of life. They are in a "jihad" or holy war against us, and lets not pretent here, it is a war about their oil. I don't think our humanitarian aid ploy is a good excuse, it's about their oil, and we need it, they have it, and they know it.
So rev up your hate engines and spin some more this way...I got a shovel, I'll dig myself out and dust myself off when you are done.
Rough crowd here....but I can handle it...can You?
Regards, Kirk
If our main crop here was sugar cane, then that wouldn't be the case. It would be efficient enough to pursue and the government could help those in need modify their vehicles to run on less efficient alcohol or to buy new cars made to do so. As it is, it's simply a tax on those of us who pay taxes and a beating to those who can't afford to buy new cars and equipment. Nothing more, nothing less.
__________________
Sugar cane takes two years to grow to harvest....not very effective, or effiencent. It cann't be grown north of the frost line in winter either....Hate to be the bearer of bad news..
Kirk
__________________
Sugar cane takes two years to grow to harvest....not very effective, or effiencent. It cann't be grown north of the frost line in winter either....Hate to be the bearer of bad news..
Kirk
I have not heard of any fuel problems with the E10, however do you have any specifics on the economy of this product as my results have been that it costs more to run than conventional fuel.
I do not know how a product that decreases the fuel mileage that much and uses so much fuel to produce can be viable.
I do not know how a product that decreases the fuel mileage that much and uses so much fuel to produce can be viable.
Simple, do your own homework. Check with ANY manufacturer of a vehicle made before 2008 or any small engine manufacturer and see what they tell you will happen if you run E15. Here's ya a non-manufacturer article just in case you think all the engine manufacturers have this thing against corn.
E15 Could Be Trouble. Be sure to read that last line that doesn't even talk about E15, but rather just E10. It says "Even if E15 fuel doesn't show up in Texas for a couple of years, ethanol will give boat motor mechanics such as Stone plenty to do, and boat owners plenty of headaches." Also, at least spell it right if you're going to call me and hundreds of thousands of others liars. When you start doing so, you may want to find a good dentist who will keep you in a good supply of dentures when you start calling all these people "liers" too. 
You better vote for Obama so everyone will get a brand new car, mower, trimmer, tractor, generators, scooter, moped, chainsaw etc. with the new flat screen TV's and free homes he's promised those who don't work. Personally, when everyone discovers that they will need to replace everything they have with an engine to run E15, it's DOA anyway.