Replace transmission, or replace car?

buckle97 · May 12, 2006

I'm looking for some suggestions from the knowledgeable folks here at FF. Here's the deal:
I drive 160 miles round trip per day to work and back. I average 45,000 miles per year on my commuter vehicle.
Current commuter car is a 2002 Taurus with 116k miles on it. I bought it when it was 2 years old with 37k miles on it for $7,500. The market was, and still is, flooded with Taurus's so they come pretty cheap. I have had no problems out of it in the first 116k but yesterday the transmission went out. Now I have a decision to make. To muddy the waters a little more, just two weeks ago I had new tires, brakes, tune up, etc. done to the tune of $993.
What is everyone's opinion? Fix the car with 116k, or scrap it and start over?
I must say that I feel I have already gotten my $7,500 worth out of this car.

First quote for a new transmission is $2,969.00 installed.

Dutch-NJ · May 12, 2006

If I had just spent $1000 on it, I'd fix it. But I doubt I'd spend $3000 on a transmission. There are shops in my area that will repair a transmission for much less. And I'm not opposed to a used transmission from a reputable salvage yard either.

If your transmission is so bad the car won't drive, it's just about worthless as is.

Have you had a good mechanic check it out? May be something simple.

cj7 · May 12, 2006

hmmm

I would go for a second opinion first based on what has been said. It could be just an electronic component.

Other things besides what you just put in it would be the overall condition of the car. Do you still like the car etc.

And as stated it is not worth much when you can not drive it. So in that case at least put a used tranny in it, drive for a couple of months and sell or trade it.

Av8r3400 · May 12, 2006

I agree with Dutch, I think that's a pretty high number for a Taurus Trans-axle.

Shop that number around to a few "independent" service stations and see what you get. Did that quote come from a dealer?

Melensdad · May 12, 2006

Bear in mind a 2 year old Taurus today has a "retail value" of $11,000 to $13,000 based on a quick web search.

So with that in mind, and the fact that you have just dumped $1000 into your car recently, you have to look at adding the $1000 you just spent to the purchase price of the replacement car to look at your real total cost because a car without a transmission has almost no value.

In my mind, you need to consider the above factors, your budget, and the condition of your current Taurus other than the transmission. If the car is otherwise in good shape, and if you think repairing the transmission will give you another 1 to 2 reasonably worry free years out of the car without another major breakdown, then I would shop the local transmission shops and see if I could get the car fixed. Transmission repair prices seem to vary wildly between repair shops. If the rest of the car is reasonably in good shape, and the repair bill can be trimmed a bit, then I'd repair it. If the rest of the car is trash then I'd trade for something else.

JMO

Doc · May 12, 2006

That's a tough one Buckle. Putting 45k on a year, by this time next year you'll be over 160k. Other stuff will start to go. Normally I think fixing it and keeping a vehicle you know to be good is the better solution. But 3k is alot to put into a vehicle with that many miles already. And, since you feel you got your moneys worth out of it already .....I'd consider putting in a cheaper / used tranny then trade it on something more to your liking. But first you'd have to calculate what it's worth fixed vs unfixed. If you would trade it at a dealer's lot, they give next to nothing on any trade in. You might be better off buying outright, and donate the car to Volunteers and take the value of the car as a tax write off.

HGM · May 12, 2006

Too bad I cant recomend anyone in the area... I agree with the "get another opinion" idea for this one.. I too drive quite a bit and have accepted that my 2000 Ranger will be mine untill it rotts away.. At the rate you put miles on the car and the fact(as you stated) that the market is flooded with them making them worth less and less as the days go on, I would recomend fixing it and planning on getting at leas another 100k out of it.. The trans is the most problematic part of the Taurus, naturaly... I'm not sure where you got your estimate, but ask arround and find someone you feel you can trust.. Allot of guys will sharply disagree, but the dealer, although seemingly higher priced at first, can sometimes be the best route in the long run. The warranty is typicaly better(and covers more), unless its a complete reman unit, and if you get a good tech(wish I could say it was a given) you will get a good job that will last at least as long as the factory box, if not longer.. Plus, ther will likely give you an accurate estimate of the concern rather than a quick "it dont move? we can fix it for $3k" type of answer... Like was stated earlier, it may not need an overhaul.. What is it doing and how did it come about?

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · May 12, 2006

Buy another one of the same year with a good trany and swap the parts around. You have got to be able to find a transmission for one of those in a wrecking yard - although they will gouge you too.

Good Luck

Melensdad · May 12, 2006

PBinWA said:
Buy another one of the same year with a good trany and swap the parts around.

Better yet, rent one from Hertz and swap the parts around

Dutch-NJ · May 12, 2006

B_Skurka said:
Better yet, rent one from Hertz and swap the parts around

That's the most interesting idea yet. Rip off Hertz and let the rest of us pay for your transmission through increased rental costs and decreased stock value.

Just be careful. Hertz may be tired of amateur rip offs.

Any fool can tell if a transmission has been swapped. You could wind up paying Hertz $5000 to replace their transmission, $5000 for a lawyer to get you a "deal", and a $5000 fine for the attempt.

$15000 for a transmission scam on a car that only cost $7500 two years ago. Hmmm........... Sounds like a plan.

Why not just find a car you like, stick a gun in the driver's face, and take it like a real gangster.

Better yet, tell B_Skurka what you want. Let him deliver it to you. The going rate for car thieves is $500, and you can only be on the "hook" for receiving.

Melensdad · May 12, 2006

Dutch, if you can't tell when people are obviously joking, then you are in sad shape.

Dutch-NJ · May 12, 2006

B_Skurka said:
Dutch, if you can't tell when people are obviously joking, then you are in sad shape.

Doesn't that go both ways?

I was joking too.

How do readers tell when someone is just joking?

buckle97 · May 12, 2006

Quote #2 is in: $3,327.28

For the record, quote #1 is from a repair shop I use frequently (I have many vehicles). Quote #2 is from an independent transmission shop. Both places mentioned the labor being very high for this car.
Both transmissions are remanufactured transmissions, NOT new!

I have a call into the Ford dealership for a quote; I expect it shortly.

Lawrence

Melensdad · May 12, 2006

Dutch-NJ said:
Doesn't that go both ways?

I was joking too.

How do readers tell when someone is just joking?

You use those little smiley face things! :pat:

DaveNay · May 12, 2006

buckle97 said:
Quote #2 is in: $3,327.28

For the record, quote #1 is from a repair shop I use frequently (I have many vehicles). Quote #2 is from an independent transmission shop. Both places mentioned the labor being very high for this car.
Both transmissions are remanufactured transmissions, NOT new!

I have a call into the Ford dealership for a quote; I expect it shortly.

Lawrence

GOOD LORD ALMIGHTY!!!

Rebuilding the trans on my F150 was $2,000 last winter. For the money you are being quoted, you could do a complete engine/tranny yank and swap.

Melensdad · May 12, 2006

DaveNay said:
GOOD LORD ALMIGHTY!!!

Dave . . . I didn't think you were the religious type. :yum:

Buckle97 . . . I can't figure out why the transmission prices are going UP. Both bids seem amazingly high to me. Maybe it is some aboration with the Taurus? But it seems like there are so many of those on the road that it should be cheaper. I was figuring a fair price in the range of $2000 to $2500 tops!

HGM · May 12, 2006

Dont forget guys, this is a front wheel drive car.... The subframe needs to come out(engine needs to be hung from the top) and requires a good bit more labor...

Now, if your calling around and expecting an accurate estimate of your problem, EVERY estimate you get will be highballed.... Take it to the dealer, let them check it out for $80 (or whatever it costs in your area) and go from there.. Does the car move? Is it just missing shifts, or just wont do anything?? The trans alone should be about 12-1500, then you can add about 15hrs labor on top of that at whatever the going rate is.. Thats a guestamite that you'll be getting from anyone that isnt looking at it..

Av8r3400 · May 12, 2006

I would get a price on a *used* take out tranny from a wrecking yard. That car is new enough that you should be able to find a 10-20k mile used one to put right in. That should cut your cost considerably.

Next, find a shop that isn't silly for labor rates! :1062:

A high shop rate is $75-100 per hour. That cannot be more than a 12 hour job ($1200 at worst).

HGM · May 12, 2006

Av8r3400 said:
I would get a price on a *used* take out tranny from a wrecking yard. That car is new enough that you should be able to find a 10-20k mile used one to put right in. That should cut your cost considerably.

Next, find a shop that isn't silly for labor rates!

A high shop rate is $75-100 per hour. That cannot be more than a 12 hour job ($1200 at worst).

No doubt.. As long as you can trust the guy putting it in and the junkyard I agree.. The rate definitly depends on the area too, where he is may be closer to $60hr at the dealer.. Something to think about none the less, just make sure to get a waranty from the boneyard if you go that route and remember that the labor wont be covered, so you'll have to pay again if its a bad deal.. As far as the length of time it takes, the book will pay close to 15hrs for an overhaul and thats what will be quoted allong with a reman trans.. So, the estimate is bogus.. but the job can be done in much less if its jusr an R&R(more like 3-4).. Thats why he needs an estimate from someone who has checked the car out..

Dutch-NJ · May 12, 2006

B_Skurka said:
You use those little smiley face things!

You must be joking..................

Your original post was:

B_Skurka said:
Better yet, rent one from Hertz and swap the parts around

The emoticons you used were whistle

yum

and eek

How do those indicate you were joking?

Do you know how unimaginative some people are? Do you know how literal some people are?

I try to make myself perfectly clear.

If I didn't want to take the time to type "Just Joking" or "Just Kidding", I'd use an appropriate emoticon, not some meaningless smiley face.

Do you know what I mean? :pat:

Doc · May 12, 2006

It sure looked like joking to me Dutch. I had no doubt whatsoever it was a joke.

Dutch-NJ · May 12, 2006

Around here, most big salvage yards (recyclers) will install what they sell.

That's the ONLY way to go. Then a mechanic won't charge twice if the trans is bad, and the yard can't claim the trans was good but installed incorrectly.

Plus, the salvage guys are set up for R&R of these components. It usually takes them 1/2 the book time. And, they have an on hand source of any parts that were unanticipated, broke, or lost.

HGM · May 12, 2006

Dutch-NJ said:
Around here, most big salvage yards (recyclers) will install what they sell.

That's the ONLY way to go. Then a mechanic won't charge twice if the trans is bad, and the yard can't claim the trans was good but installed incorrectly.

Plus, the salvage guys are set up for R&R of these components. It usually takes them 1/2 the book time. And, they have an on hand source of any parts that were unanticipated, broke, or lost.

Dont know, the ones I'm familliar with remove parts with a hot knife :Jedi:

... Maybe you have better quality yard there.. That would be the way to go..

buckle97 · May 12, 2006

The first quote was from the general repair shop I use frequently. They have the car and have checked it out. It is not driveable at all. It will roll, but doesn't have any gears.

Lawrence

BTW, I took the Hertz comment as a joke as well :yum:

.

HGM · May 12, 2006

Just to give you an idea, I looked at some figures.. Factory warranty will pay a dealer about 15hrs for a complete overhaul.. Meaning that your retail price will be in the neighborhood of 20hrs just in labor..That doesnt include any parts.. He'd probably want to replace the converter and reseal everything, meaning about $400, so far... Then you need to add any hard parts, these are the main peiced that could have been dammaged, wont know until its apart.. The last one I did had the intermediate drum(if I remember correctly) break.. The splined part of it borke off and dammaged the planetaries.. Now your close to the $1000 mark for parts...

Moral of the story, now would be the time to make up your mind.. The junk yard would probably be the best bet if you have no movement whatsoever(in Rev,D, O/D, 1,2-nothing)..Something broke, its not good..

Another option would be jasper Their usually a little high, but the warranty is good and it would give you an idea how much it will cost and who to see in your area..

Good luck, I'd still fix it..Its not a back yard thing though...

buckle97 · May 12, 2006

HGM said:
Another option would be jasper Their usually a little high, but the warranty is good and it would give you an idea how much it will cost and who to see in your area.

The second quote was for a Jasper transmission. He said it had a 75,000 mile warranty. Jasper's site lists the transmission at $2,100. I guess that means he is charging another $1,200 in labor

.

TOMLESCOEQUIP · May 12, 2006

Lawrence.......I called a friend who has a late model salvage yard & asked about your trans. He has an 02 taurus transmission with 28k miles on it for $550 exchange, & I asked another friend with a repair shop about labor & he quoted 6.7 hours to r&r the trans @ $50/hr. Add in another $100 for new filter kit, fluid & seals and you could be driving it again next week for $1000 or so. Too bad you're not in OH, I'd set it all up for you............Tom

Junkman · May 12, 2006

Dutch-NJ said:
You must be joking..................

Your original post was:

The emoticons you used were whistle yum and eek

How do those indicate you were joking?

Do you know how unimaginative some people are? Do you know how literal some people are?

I try to make myself perfectly clear.

If I didn't want to take the time to type "Just Joking" or "Just Kidding", I'd use an appropriate emoticon, not some meaningless smiley face.

Do you know what I mean?

Do you know that you are starting to piss off a lot of people and right now, you are at the head of the list of people that other members are complaining about. People come here to have a good time, not to fight and get upset. No, I am not politically correct, but I will say that you need to reassess your comments to others and stop rubbing people the wrong way. Enough said, end of discussion... no reply necessary or wanted... Do I make myself clear???? Paul

Junkman · May 12, 2006

HGM said:
............ The last one I did had the intermediate drum(if I remember correctly) break.. The splined part of it borke off and dammaged the planetaries.. Now your close to the $1000 mark for parts......

The drums are or were made out of spun aluminum and from what I have learned about them, they are the weak part of all Ford transmissions. Those transmissions that have been rebuilt by independent rebuilders don't use this original part and substitute it with a better made product and those transmissions have a better track record of lasting. Junk....

buckle97 · May 12, 2006

Wow Tom, sounds like you could have set me up. Thanks anyway.
The good news (okay, average news) is that I found a local shop that will put in a remanufactured transmission with a 3yr 36,000 mile warranty for $2,100 out the door. I'm going to do it, but I am also planning on selling this car. Even if I trade it in, I will at least be able to get the money I put into it in the last two weeks back. KBB is at $3,100 trade in, fair condition. My fear is that something else major will go and I will just keep pumping money into this thing. I'd rather just start the process all over. I will probably drive it for a month or two trying to sell it locally while also looking for a good commuter car. You can all be expecting a follow up to AndyM's "Down to Four Choices" thread with my own car search.
Thanks for all the advice today guys, I really appreciate it!

Lawrence

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