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Snowcat Restoration & Modification Projects Forum Major Restorations, Upgrades, and Non-Stock Snowcat Modifications

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  #141  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

a few more connections,... electric fan,....
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  #142  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

primed & cranked... oil pressure 60 psi... fuel inlet supply pressure 30 psi... water temp 190 ' ,... 13.0v ..
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  #143  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

... so, as everyone knows...the best layed plans can need a tweak , or side step,... due to things ; such as timeframes, changes in priorities, design improvements , etc.... or better yet ;.... a paying project. so I am going to reschedule the body mods , to next year ,... and reinstall the cab,.. to take on a ''re=power /trans.'' project. to a very special unit which mr. Loggah has posted previously .
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  #144  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

I understand the change in plans/priorities, but I've really enjoyed this thread.

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I hope you start another thread about the new project. (That should keep your fans satiated until you can resume this one....)
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  #145  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

hello BFT, thanks !! again, I really appreciate the support , right back 2U,.. I know you juggle also,... so i'm not going to ''stop'' ,.. I like to say ...''side step... ''re=prioritize'' ,... I 'll suffer one more winter, in the little cab, so as not to rush the body ''enlargement''..... all good...
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  #146  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

ooops ,.. yes new thread is,..... ''Nellie Bell''.... hope y'all enjoy,...thx for following,....
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  #147  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

.... And again... Kool aide color...
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  #148  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

On the four cyl Cummins install, have you considered moving the radiator forward to the end of the frame inorder to use a mechanical fan? In the past I have not had sufficient air flow with electric fans to cool. Perhaps today's units do the job.
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  #149  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

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Originally Posted by sno-drifter View Post
On the four cyl Cummins install, have you considered moving the radiator forward to the end of the frame inorder to use a mechanical fan? In the past I have not had sufficient air flow with electric fans to cool. Perhaps today's units do the job.
We had cooling issues with Thundercat that were very frustrating (and costly) to solve. Griffin Thermal Products recommended one of their "universal combos" (radiator, shroud and two electric fans) for our application, and claimed it would cool "up to 550 HP". Except it didn't. We tried everything they suggested; and nothing worked. Taking no responsibility for their recommended product (that quite simply failed to do the exact job for which it was recommended), I was done with Griffin.

I turned to Ron Davis Racing in Phoenix, and they were helpful. The technical representative said mechanical fans move more air. Period. But, we simply didn't have the necessary real estate for a mechanical fan. The next option suggested was using a hydraulically powered fan, which are used on several vehicles. That became the second option if the larger Ron Davis radiator with bigger fans didn't do the job. Fortunately though, the new Ron Davis radiator and fans worked. We also had the ECM re-programmed to change the fan on and off temperatures. The first fan turns on at 184 and off at 176. The second fan comes on at 204 and off at 196. This combination seems to work well. (I'll also say the quality of the tig welding on the Ron Davis radiator is incredible. I literally dream about having skill like that....)
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  #150  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

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Originally Posted by Blackfoot Tucker View Post
We had cooling issues with Thundercat that were very frustrating (and costly) to solve. Griffin Thermal Products recommended one of their "universal combos" (radiator, shroud and two electric fans) for our application, and claimed it would cool "up to 550 HP". Except it didn't. We tried everything they suggested; and nothing worked. Taking no responsibility for their recommended product (that quite simply failed to do the exact job for which it was recommended), I was done with Griffin.

I turned to Ron Davis Racing in Phoenix, and they were helpful. The technical representative said mechanical fans move more air. Period. But, we simply didn't have the necessary real estate for a mechanical fan. The next option suggested was using a hydraulically powered fan, which are used on several vehicles. That became the second option if the larger Ron Davis radiator with bigger fans didn't do the job. Fortunately though, the new Ron Davis radiator and fans worked. We also had the ECM re-programmed to change the fan on and off temperatures. The first fan turns on at 184 and off at 176. The second fan comes on at 204 and off at 196. This combination seems to work well. (I'll also say the quality of the tig welding on the Ron Davis radiator is incredible. I literally dream about having skill like that....)
I also have considered using a hydraulic driven fan. It makes more sense than an electric fan with enough HP to move that much air. You already have the hyd. pump which is more efficient than beefing up an alternator to supply the electric fan. I like the "progressive linkage" of your fan set up, reminds me of the dual AFB's on my 409.

Good news that you found the Davis option, it is well needed. Thanks for sharing what works and what doesn't.
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  #151  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

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Originally Posted by sno-drifter View Post
On the four cyl Cummins install, have you considered moving the radiator forward to the end of the frame inorder to use a mechanical fan? In the past I have not had sufficient air flow with electric fans to cool. Perhaps today's units do the job.
.... S/D, well to be honest, I have not... This particular radiator is snuggly all the way forward in the frame, the angle of the front of the engine is closer at the bottom, than the top, the dia. Of the fan, misc., etc. .... So with the fan/shroud assy. Mounted in the front..of rad.,...I was trying to kill a few birds at once. My theory there being...with my location of usage here... Low altitude...no deep snow...packed/groomed trails, etc. Wouldn't be working it as hard , as to the opposite . more idle time. Diesels run cooler on a rule, as opposed to a gas engine. So I was anticipating a winter front may be needed, after testing . same scenario with the trans. Cooler. Great question S/D. Thx for info BFT. I've got to get in gear to get to the test modes.
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  #152  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

Sno-Drifter and Olympic Orange, thanks for the kind words.


Sno-Drifter, A dual-quad setup on a 409 sounds nostalgic... and fun. I'm guessing when you installed that, fuel economy wasn't a consideration. I think today that would get you a wanted poster at a Prius and Tesla convention (if there were such a thing).
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  #153  
Old 11-16-2019, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

Wrong BFT, I had a great increase in fuel economy. However, the transplant was to the '61 GMC carryall which came with the 305 V-6 boat anchor which on a good day would get six MPG. It was fun to drive back in '63, not to many stock models were quick then.

O O You should be fine in the conditions you defined. I am thinking of the balls to the walls pulling up a mountain or towing a groomer.
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  #154  
Old 11-16-2019, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

..... They always said a 4BBL would get better fuel economy... As opposed to a two BBL ... Due to the size of the primary jets. As long as you don't open up the secondaries. But what fun is that...lol. Yes, if I was to work it hard, instead of being an Uber....I would expect it to Heat. If the usage demands ever change, so will the needs. ... Thx guyz....
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  #155  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

..... Hmmmm.....interesting idea on the hyd. Driven fan option. Didn't we have a quick comment or two, on keeping weight down on a tucker....lol. Take into consideration the components involved to support the operation of such.... Hyd. Motor, hoses, calving(depending on make& model), fittings, oil volume in the hoses, etc. ...what did I forget. Oh, maybe another inline filter...what about the need for a hyd. Cooler for the addition of fan circuit...larger hyd. Tank, .. Misc. Also adds more things to leak down the road... Man am I a buzzkill... I work with them on a lot of different applications...they sure do move a volume of air....oh the pros& cons....
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  #156  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

..... " valving"""....D amn auto correct...
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  #157  
Old 11-18-2019, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

I have a 3.0L mercedes going into a 1450 super imp. I have a dilemma with the fan that stalled my interest in a speedy build. the mercedes used a off center to the right fan on a idler. I refuse to use electric fans anymore. ( many reasons all discussed previously) I was put onto the hydraulic fans from Jeep grand cherokees. I toured the local pick and pull to see what the system entails.

I think you might be amazed at the simplicity of the tinker toyish design on the system. You most likely have the bread truck aux drive steering/brake pump laying about..... if not they can be had cheap.
your angle radiator to motor will not be an issue as the fan is radiator mounted. I am sure it could push as opposed to pulling air.

just thinking out loud
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  #158  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

Thinking we need a 'fans' thread. But, since I'm here, my 2 cents on the airflow issues. I've seen several units both fixed and mobile that had great big radiators, fan(s) and still had trouble. They also had little in the way of outflow room.



The area for air to flow out of should be larger than the intake area to limit back pressure. Big, high pressure intake fans may make up for some of the restriction. Add in the hoses, generators, pumps and other stuff the restriction is increased by eddies and turbulence. I've seen more than one cat with belly pans that close off a lot of the exit, and/ or redirect the hot air to below the radiator which then gets sucked into the cooling airflow.



I liken it to the folks that put 4/0 (+) battery cables and 10 ga (-) cables and still wonder why they can't get it to spin well. The Louisville Ford Fire engines I used to have suffered from this. Going down the road, the air pressure from movement and the fan did ok, But when pumping hard they would overheat unless the hood was popped. They had very little room between the engine and the frame for air to get by.



Short version: Air flow is a system, and for a system to work well, every part in the system needs to be evaluated to see if it is doing the job, or not.
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  #159  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

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Wrong BFT, I had a great increase in fuel economy. However, the transplant was to the '61 GMC carryall which came with the 305 V-6 boat anchor which on a good day would get six MPG. It was fun to drive back in '63, not to many stock models were quick then.

O O You should be fine in the conditions you defined. I am thinking of the balls to the walls pulling up a mountain or towing a groomer.
I've always considered dual quads to be very high performance. Your must have been set up and tuned very well (why am I not surprised).

One of my very best friends has a 1968 Shelby GT-500. He installed a Ford 427 side-oiler engine and chose the dual quad intake and carburetor combination Ford offered on the 1966 427 powered Fairlane. I remember the Shelby having a Voracious (capital V) appetite for fuel, and high octane fuel at that! But the car is hugely fun, monsterly powerful and a real head-turner.

I'll bet you surprised a bunch of folks with the Carryall (and had fun doing it)!
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  #160  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: 1542 conversion to a 1543 supersized project

And the Carryall had the V-6 logos on the hood. Was fun to drive. The cam kinda gave it away. The next engine was the LS6. Got hard to find fuel for the 11:1 compression. Then we started with yellow oil burners.
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