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  #1  
Old 11-23-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default Lets play "pretend"

Let's say you were tired of uncle sam knowing everything you do .

Let's say you live in a little dumb ass hick town in the outback of Idaho that once was a big gold producing area .

Let's say that there were still quite a few old miners digging and panning gold ,,,,, and finding it .

Let's say the old miners wanted to convert gold to cash but keep it private, just amongst themselves .

Let's say you had cash and wanted gold, but also wanted to keep it private .

Let's say it was all done in small amounts, usually under $3000 at a time ,over many months or years .

Let's say ..........would it work ????
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

I would providing everyone kept it quiet. The only thing is if you ever sold the gold for cash the question would arise how much you paid for it.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

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Originally Posted by REDDOGTWO View Post
I would providing everyone kept it quiet. The only thing is if you ever sold the gold for cash the question would arise how much you paid for it.
I would venture a guess that the question asked would be where did you get it? Particularily if you sold more than $10,000 worth for cash.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

The first thing you did wrong was post it here. Uncle Sam will know if he wants to find it.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

If more than one person knows a secret, it's no longer a secret.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Read the title .....I said pretend
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

If we are just pretending then it is probably a good deal if you can get the gold for less than market rate. I wonder if you could pretend transport it to Panama?
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Is gold regulated in some way? does the government have a clue who does and who does not have gold?
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2013, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

it is sold like that around here all the time. but when you convert it back to cash there is going to be income tax due on it and it will be for the full amount if you don't have proof of purchase. the miners around here are always swapping equipment for gold just to avoid the taxes. if you can get it out of the country than or make more private sales nobody needs to know you sold it. gold shows are a great place to liquidate it in small amounts.
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Old 11-24-2013, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

There are few things left in America that the Fucking U.S. goverment will not try to tax .
The U.S. goverment through their actions , have turned there own people into crinimals in one way or another . We are just taxed to death .
So whats left ... Most cheat where they can . They buy a used car and say they paid less so the sales tax and fees are less . They set up business and write every thing they can off and a lot more hoping they do not get audited .

But ,,,,There is one way to tell em to GO to Hell !!!! Barter . No paper trail , No money changes hands .

You would be damn surprized at how many folks will agree to do this and do it on a daily basis .

Its the best way I know to tell the feds to fuck off .

You fix his car , he paints your house .
You mow his lawns , he gives you his lawn mover.
You build his fences , you get 1/4 of a butchered beef .
You take your tractor and do work at his home and he put braces on your son's teeth .
There are million on things that can be bartered for . Hell Craigslist even has its own section on this . The only loser is the IRS!!!

Its the only way I see left that the average Joe has a chance of of winning the tax game .
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2013, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

I agree Al.

It's been that way in Canada for a long time. My dad did a lot of barter work. It helps to be in a position where you have or can do something that everyone needs.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
There are few things left in America that the Fucking U.S. goverment will not try to tax .
The U.S. goverment through their actions , have turned there own people into crinimals in one way or another . We are just taxed to death .
So whats left ... Most cheat where they can . They buy a used car and say they paid less so the sales tax and fees are less . They set up business and write every thing they can off and a lot more hoping they do not get audited .

But ,,,,There is one way to tell em to GO to Hell !!!! Barter . No paper trail , No money changes hands .

You would be damn surprized at how many folks will agree to do this and do it on a daily basis .

Its the best way I know to tell the feds to fuck off .

You fix his car , he paints your house .
You mow his lawns , he gives you his lawn mover.
You build his fences , you get 1/4 of a butchered beef .
You take your tractor and do work at his home and he put braces on your son's teeth .
There are million on things that can be bartered for . Hell Craigslist even has its own section on this . The only loser is the IRS!!!

Its the only way I see left that the average Joe has a chance of of winning the tax game .

Isn't this the way life used to be?

Of course, it's a great idea.

http://www.barter.com/ For your enjoyment. BTW, you are supposed to pay tax for fair value on a barter.
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2013, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
Let's say you were tired of uncle sam knowing everything you do .

Let's say you live in a little dumb ass hick town in the outback of Idaho that once was a big gold producing area .

Let's say that there were still quite a few old miners digging and panning gold ,,,,, and finding it .

Let's say the old miners wanted to convert gold to cash but keep it private, just amongst themselves .

Let's say you had cash and wanted gold, but also wanted to keep it private .

Let's say it was all done in small amounts, usually under $3000 at a time ,over many months or years .

Let's say ..........would it work ????
For the time being, YES.

But remember it wasn't too long ago that the IRS wanted to tax and have you report any transaction over $600 on a 1099. For the time being, the legislation requiring said reporting was roundly defeated.

For the time being.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Not so fast............

Topic 420 - Bartering Income
Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide or may provide under the bartering arrangement.


Generally, you report this income on Form 1040, Schedule C (PDF), Profit or Loss from Business or Form 1040, Schedule C-EZ (PDF), Net Profit from Business. If you failed to report this income, correct your return by filing a Form 1040X (PDF). Refer to Topic 308 for amended return information.


A barter exchange or barter club is any organization with members or clients or persons who contract with each other (or with the barter exchange) to jointly trade or barter property or services. The term does not include arrangements that provide solely for the informal exchange of similar services on a noncommercial basis.


The Internet has provided a medium for new growth in the bartering exchange industry. This growth prompts the following reminder: Barter exchanges are required to file Form 1099-B (PDF), Proceeds From Broker and Barter Exchange Transactions for all transactions unless they meet certain exceptions. Refer to Bartering in Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, and the Form 1099-B Instructions for additional information on this subject. Persons who do not contract a barter exchange but who trade services are not required to file Form 1099-B. However, they may be required to file Form 1099-MISC (PDF). If you are in a business or trade, you may be able to deduct certain costs you incurred to perform the work that was bartered. If you exchanged property or services through a barter exchange, you should receive a Form 1099*B. The IRS also will receive the same information.


Please refer to our Bartering Tax Center page for more information on bartering income and bartering exchanges.


If you receive income from bartering, you may be required to make estimated tax payments. Refer to Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for additional information.

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Old 11-25-2013, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Yeah! What Bamby said.

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Old 11-25-2013, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Meanwhile, back to the original post. Buying gold for cash isn't exactly the same as bartering work for work.

Like it or not, the government would frown on this transaction for the purpose of avoiding taxes. Not to mention that few grocery stores will accept gold in lieu of cash.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

I fear the time will come when two persons will enter a store, one w/ a wheelbarrow full of US dollars that are nothing but worthless paper, the other with 1/10 troy ounce of gold. Now which of the two do you think the store owner will accept for payment?
Mike
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
I fear the time will come when two persons will enter a store, one w/ a wheelbarrow full of US dollars that are nothing but worthless paper, the other with 1/10 troy ounce of gold. Now which of the two do you think the store owner will accept for payment?
Mike
The time draws near for just such a scenario. But just watch. The FED does some amazing things to keep the USD propped up and the spot cost of AU pushed down. The chicanery and manipulation of the USD/AU runs amok.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamby View Post
Not so fast............
See post #13.

Sooner or later the IRS (the government) will do so pretty obtuse things to suppress the spot cost of gold in favor of the worthless USD, even if it means heavy taxation on all AU/AG and other precious metals transactions.

Transactions in AU and AG will have to move underground.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Lets play "pretend"

What stinks about this conversation is, apparently if we watch each other's children, or help someone and "barter" as the term would be used... Mr IRS feels cheated.

* * shaking head * *

The reason I opened this thread.. was the last time I played "let's pretend" I was quite young and knew nothing about anything and actually got someone into a world of trouble.. by accident. So, my curiosity got me.. again!
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