Ramblings Of An Old Man

Ran across this in my emails from a along time ago. Thought it was interesting and I am sure most have read it before.



Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man
By Joe Galloway


If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete
now. If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen.

Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls
being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us?
The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign
policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which
civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer
than our puny two centuries-plus.

I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning
against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I
want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German.
Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq.
Kind of nice to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps
we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time
to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save,
we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying
the bills for their own defense.

Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of
liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think
so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up
above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we
also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau
Thierry also.
For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the
first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's
where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care
about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I spelled that
right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German.

Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian
problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I
checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they
would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun.

Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They
"liked" us a lot better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than
50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they
currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to
bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans
on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north.
Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that
North Korea currently enjoys. Uh huh. Sure.

I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now
doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what
we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would
like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should
follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator
Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and
orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama
has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them.
Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world
would love us.

Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those
things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I
don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with
a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in
favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact.
But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other
countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the
countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them
or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry
about them, how about them worrying about us?

We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies
of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear
weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them
when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were
freezing.

In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my
cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University.
I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire,"
and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded
him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in
1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or
Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his
grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in
Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they
didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the
"American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian.

Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our
house, and we don't seem to like anyone.

Happy New Year.

Provided by Joe Galloway, author of We Were Soldiers.

Why is that? Is there no truth to this commentary? Really, I'd like to know.

Writings like this depict an image that the USA are lone rangers saving the world. I personally find it insulting when many Australian Diggers lost their lives fighting alongside Americans in wars as allies fighting for the same purpose.
I read often where America done this and done that. The USA undoubtedly were/and are major players of many wars but the USA rarely have battled wars on their own?

[FONT=&quot]I grossly dislike this arrogance.[/FONT]

daedong said:

Writings like this are nothing short of provocative to all those outside the US

Click to expand...

I think they are supposed to be.

daedong said:

The USA undoubtedly were/and are major players of many wars but the USA rarely have battled wars on their own?

Click to expand...

I don't think you will see anywhere that people will say we were solely responsible for these outcomes. What they are saying is that because of our (USA) intervention the results are what we see. Did Canada and Australia play major rolls in WWII? To be certain they did in their own right. BUT, without the manufacturing might and troop strength supplied by America things would be vastly different. To deny this is revisionist at best.

This is where the bitterness of some Americans is coming from. Many of my fellow citizens look at current events in the spectrum of history. They see similarities from the early part of the 20th century to now. They see the mistakes made then (the appeasement of Hitler in particular) as something that should not be repeated. Action has been taken in these areas and right or wrong this is why we are where we are.

Appeasement is a philosophy which is very popular around the world (here too) because it is easy. Do nothing and things will settle on their own or just go away. Many of my fellow citizens (and myself too) do not believe in this. We do not believe that it is in our best interests to allow terrorism and despotism to ravage us without some sort of corrective action.

That's just my opinion and I welcome other.

I remember...

from World War One the first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French

Click to expand...

And you wonder why some people dislike the Americans, you attitude is all wrong!
I didnt read the rest, I can guess though, basically the jist that America saved the world, has done no harm, and is wondering why lots of people hate them.


I'm not saying this to anyone in particiular

Vin and Mith, I agree that Mr. Galloway's comments, taken at face value, create an inference of arrogance, but step back and look at the bigger context. His comments are merely intended to communicate to the Germans, French, muslims, etc. (the greatest denigraters of the U.S.) and tell them, "You don't like it? Fine. We're outta here."

To call this arrogance is a misnomer. I am the son of a WWII vet and am aware of the sacrifices laid on the alter of freedom by many international brethren. Gallipolis, Dunkirk, Malta, Tobruk, and the like were military campaigns in which Americans were at best logistics supporters (if participating at all), not those fighting and dying, like the British, Australians, etc. Most Americans understand we are not the sole saviours of the world, that it takes a joint effort with all defenders of freedom to preserve it and that you too deserve your accollades therefore. It's just that the Germans, French, Muslims et al. ain't bitchin about the Brits or Aussies. They're bitchin' about us Yanks.

Mith said:

And you wonder why some people dislike the Americans, you attitude is all wrong!
I didnt read the rest, I can guess though, basically the jist that America saved the world, has done no harm, and is wondering why lots of people hate them.


I'm not saying this to anyone in particiular

Click to expand...

Neither WWI or WWII started out as wars with the United States involved. In both wars there were significant parts of the US population that were against any involvement by the US in what was seen as a "European War". In WWII the US could have declared war against Japan and just stayed out of the European war if Roosevelt had not gotten us so involved with the British. Roosevelt had deployed US Navy ships to escort convoys across the Atlantic well before war was declared against Germany and US Navy ships had engaged German submarines while no war was declared. In many circles in this country that was seen as a deliberate attempt to get the US involved in the war by provoking an incident with the Germans.

The point the "old man" was trying to make was that in the end US soldiers fought and died to gain others their freedom and these days that fact seems to go unappreciated. I don't recall the Australians leading an island hopping campaign against the Japanese during WWII and I don't recall reading about how the French organized the D-Day invasion and took heavy losses on Omaha beach. I also don't recall reading about how Canada, Australia, France, or Britain exported huge amounts of arms to the Allied forces - including Russia, to help win the war.

Again - I must emphasize - in a war that the US could have stayed out of if not for their leaders need to get involved on the world stage.

If you don't live in this country you probably don't understand the attitude but much of the population is sick of the current Iraq war, is sick of sending out soldiers to fight and die in foreign lands - where nothing ever seems to get solved, is sick of our own goverment constantly telling us that this is the "right" thing to do, etc. You will see a lot of commentators call this a growing "isolationist" mentality but that is not what it is - it is a
"self interest" mentality - we think the United States should stop sticking it's nose into everybody else's problems and start solving some of it's own for a change. Stop sending our tax dollars over to foreign countries, stop sending our soldiers to foreign countries, stop giving our jobs to illegal immigrants, and stop believing that the problems of the world can be solved by the involvement of the US. The complement to that attitude is that the rest of the world should stop relying on the US to come to their aid whenever they screw up.

I think of the differences this way thru an analogy:

Isolationist - I take care of my house and my family - I don't however deal at all with the rest of my neighborhood - I don't talk to my neighbors, I don't participate in local goverment. I completely and totally mind my own business.

Self Interest - I take care of my house and my family, I deal cordially with my neighbors but do not tolerate any meddling by them in my affairs and also do not meddle in their affairs myself. I go along with all the local laws and customs but I am self sufficient for the most part but participate and trade in the economy. I do not borrow or lend money.

Meddling - I concern myself with my neighbors problems as much as with my own. I constantly meddle in neighbors affairs - and because of this they meddle in mine. I loan money to people who do not give it back - then I borrow and also don't pay that back. When my neighbors get into arguments I pick sides and therefore get sucked into situation I do not necessarily need to be involved in. Eventually I make enemies and am entangled in situations not in my best interest.


Currently the United States is a "meddler" - I would argue that we and the rest of the world would be much better off if we operated more along the lines of "self interest".

If you want to go back thru the history there are people who believe that US involvement in WWI had some effect on bringing Hitler to power. Without US involvement it is within the realm of possibility that there might have been a stalemate between the Germans and British/French. A stalemate and end to the war would have avoided the Versailles treaty which drove Germany into the ground and brought about the rise of Hitler. US involvement totally change the way the history went - and history might have been a lot better without our involvement.

Well seeing some of these comments I wonder how these same people will feel when they get attacked again? They will (their countries). Did the Australians deserve to be bombed in what was it ???? Bermuda or some such place. What was it 80 plus Aussies murdered????? BUT we must do nothing unless WE are attacked per DAEDONGS beliefs. Thats what DAEDONG belives and has even told me so on other posts. So what he is saying is not to do anything unless attacked. In That case going back in history when his country was attacked we should not have done anything? After all we were not attacked. And of course we shouldnt have done anything when Great Brittian was attacked by the Germans. We shouldnt have helped the French when the Germans were occupying there country. We shouldnt have helped the Aussies when the Japs were at there door step since after all only we were attacked so why help these down under folks out. So do nothing Unless attacked. WOW In 5that case lets look back in history and just speculate what would have happened if we went by this type of attitude. First of all Great Brittian would be GONE. France would be Gone. Russia would be gone. China would be gone The African continent and all of europe would bd gone. At least as we know it today. OH yes and Australia would have been under Japanese control and we know how thet treated the lower human life forms they ruled over. OH did you forget? Ask any Phillipino he happend to live through it. I have and it wasnt pretty. Yah such honorable people the,m Japs were. Lets see OH yah for sport and fun when they came to a hospital they would bayonet any wounded sholdiers. And babies now heres a nice lot for you. They would toss babies up in the air and catch them with there bayonets. Yah they sure were a sporting and kind people. Rape? Rape well lets just say you Aussies would look pretty diffrent today. Rape was a nice past time. Because of us the Americans WE saved your bacon pure and simple. We could have wiped the Japs out sooner if we didnt have 75% of the war effort focused on the european front. So you say "well we need some credit you didnt do it all". Of course we didnt. Of course we didnt do it alone. But where would you be if we didnt? Do I expect a hand shake for it? Hell no but I also dont want it to be blown off that our soldiers sacrafice seems to mean absolutely NOTHING to you! Thats all dont diminish what they did for your country! FRance helped us out back in 1775 and 1776. We dont act like they didnt do ANYTHING. But you can sure as hell trace our feelings for the fact that they currenty dont have any respect for what are country did for them twice! Only the OLDER French people that I have met (the ones that went through the German occupation) aknowledge the sacrafice our soldiers gave to help free the French people. The younger ones act like it was absolutley no sacrafice and that it was nothing! So do nothing. If we had done nothing then EVIL would have prevailed!

we shouldnt have done anything when Great Brittian was attacked by the Germans.

Click to expand...

You only attacked becuse the Japs attacked you.
We (atleast I) am not saying you did nothing for us, as you did. All I feel is that your 'we saved you' attitude is unnecesary.

LIke I said in this case we were attacked. But what would have happend if we didnt get involved? My attitude is NOT "YOU OWE US"! It couldnt be further from the truth. Its this crap that our soldiers sacrafice seems to mean nothing to most of these people. Your pride is even a part of this attitude. You cant even admitt we did save your countries bacon. HELL I can admitt that if France didnt help us back in 1776 (when we founded our country) we most likely wouldnt be here today as the nation we are. We would be a part of the British Empire. Who knows. But why cant you at least admit we did save your bacon? Whats so damn hard about that. "Yes America did save us from the Japs back in WWII". By bringing this up you make those soldiers sacrafice seem like nothing. I am assumming you are Australian. If I am wrong then please correct me so I can tell you what we did for your nation. The thing is none of this would ever had been bought up if it wasnt for this Anti American bullshit! We dont want to be thanked. We did it but by god you will not say it meant little to nothing and then get ticked off because we (Americans) dont like that attitude????? How Dare you!

Well it seems you are a Brit. If I am wrong then please correct me. BUT that changes everything. What a slap in the face to us Americans with that attitude Sir! Your country was on the brink of total destruction at the hands of the Germans. If we didnt supply you with EVERYTHING then you would have folded up in a matter of months in 1942. At Dunskirk you almost lost the war! Your country days were numbered from that point on! In your case we not only saved your Bacon but your ASS would be a better term to use. And here in this forum you cant even admit that? That if America didnt get involved in the European war England would have fallen? My attitude you dont like? Well excuse the hell out of me. What the bloody hell was I thinking?

At least Tony Blair knows the truth!

This post is not directed at any individual in particular.

I posted in this thread not as an attack on Murph or anyone else it was a general response to the offensive crap that I read on an almost daily basis about how the USA saved the world in every bloody war in the last 100 years, and how every country owes them and should kisses their arse. (Below is just one small example)
The selected history and rhetoric that so many here on this forum must be feed is beyond me. Maybe some of you may like to read some war history other than your own. The site below is from my country and I am sure there are many others sites from other countries on the web.
If you do read any of this please be mindful of the stats, loses efforts as per population ratio.
http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/index.asp


Junkman I am truly sorry to use you as an example regarding my thoughts, It is not intentional by any means to single you out. I just so happened to be on the same day as this thread and it was the first and only example I searched for. Once again please do not take it personally.

Junkman said:

That is one of the problems of this nation. We helped out the French and got nothing in return. We did the same for England and have had mixed response. We rebuilt Japan, and gave them favorable trading status with us, and in return, they did everything to keep our goods from entering their country. We rebuilt Germany and have gotten nothing in return, except for over priced cars. They also do everything to keep our goods out of their country. It is about time that we retreat to our own shores and start taking care of ourselves first and let some other country spend their money on the rest of the world.

Click to expand...

Vin,

Yes the Aussies suffered in WWII. But without the US fighting the bulk of the war in the Pacific, Australia would be speaking Japanese. Just because a country takes huge casualities does not mean it wins. The Japanese and Germans suffered considerably and in shear numbers lets look at the Russions. If the United States had not stopped the Japanese at the battle of Coral Sea and certainly at Midway Australia would have been in a world of hurt. If you think your country suffered during WWII let you mind think of what the Japanese would have done to your cities and population if US Navy had not stopped the Imperial Navy. Nanking and Manila are good starting points.

What ticks off many Americans is the crap that is thrown at us. We are Imperialists. We are War Mongers. We are Evil. The closest the US ever came to being Imperialists was with the Spanish American war. Compare the US actions to the real Imperialists, the Europeans, and well there is no comparison.

One of the messes we inherited from the French was Indochina. During the 20's and 30's French Indochina was the largest exporter of rice in the world. During the same time frame millions of people starved to death.

Even going back to the early 1800s the US did the dirty work of the Europeans. The Barbery pirates had been taking ships and the Europeans instead of using their Navy's to solve the problem just paid them off in cash. The United States in 1815ish went in and defeated the Barbery pirates with our very little Navy. And this was after fighting our Second War with the UK in which Washington was burned. We did not pay one cent to bribe the priates. The Great Powers of Europe continued to appease the pirates with cash.

The Europeans like to appease.

The US has been fixng problems caused by the Europeans for a good century and all we get in return is a bunch of lip. We fought two major wars without US intervention would have allowed the Germans to beat the UK and French. We then kept the Russians at bay for decades and all we get is back stabbing. The US Imperialists defeated our enemies and then proceeded to give them Democracy and treasure as well as helping our allies rebuild their countries. When did the European Imperialists do such a thing?

And in fact we have been saving the world for almost a century.

There is no way the French and British could have held on in WWI. The Germans had taken out the Russians and if it had not been for the fresh US blood France would have been beaten again. Don't forget the Franco-Prussian War in the late 1800s in which the Germans beat the French.

WWII is pretty obvious. Without the US Europe would be speaking either German or Russian. Most of the Pacific would be speaking Japanese.

The Cold War. The US spent the dollars to pull EVERYONE up. Allies and Enemies alike. AND spent more money keeping the Russians in place. Which allowed the Europeans to build up their economies. The US spent far more money as well as a percentage of GDP as the Europeans. That of course continues.

Korean. South Korea would have been added to the present day Hell called North Korea.

Viet Nam. Good try. But the failure in Viet Nam is another thread.

Persian Gulf I. You think the price of oil is high today. If Saddam had been smart he would have just kept heading South. I'll be danged if I know why he stopped...

War on Terror. Well we are doing it all for the most part. The Europeans as always are in appeasement mode.

Now I don't think for a moment that the other Allies in the wars listed don't count. They do. They always do. But the fact is that without the US, the Allies would have lost. The US has the population and economy to fight these wars. The US intervention tips the war in favor our allies.

I don't think the Americans expect other counties to kiss our ass nor do we expect them to do or like everything we do but at least have some respect. Don't try to make us out to be as Evil as the Nazi's. And don't call us Imperialists. The Europeans are the true Imerialists as are the Russans. Not the US. While we are not perfect by god we are orders of magnitude better than any other Super Power in History. Period.

Later,
Dan

Dan





You just proved my point again

[FONT=&quot]I can see you are slow, so just think about this comment you will understand in time, try hard.[/FONT]

Isn't that condescending of you.

Instead of being condescending, why don'y you tell us what is incorrect (in your opinion) with dmccarthy's statements?

Av8r3400 said:

Isn't that condescending of you.

Click to expand...

YEP

Why are we arguing with our Allies?

AV8R3400,
I have come to realize when you argue on a forums based discussion with an Idiot you both end up looking like Idiots. I am in total agreement with you. I wont argue any more with these.. well you know what I'm saying.

daedong said:

Dan





You just proved my point again

[FONT=&quot]I can see you are slow, so just think about this comment you will understand in time, try hard.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

Vin,

Since I'm slow can you explain how I'm slow.

I showed you historical fact to prove my point of view.

Can you explain yours?

I don't mean to minimize contributions various Allies of the US have made in the many wars that have been fought over the last 100 years. Without Allies wars are far more difficult and expensive.

But the FACTS are that without the US the allies would have LOST. With the very STRONG isolationist feelings in the US during the 30s and 40s its very likey the US would NOT have entered into WWII much later if ever in the war. If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor and if Hitler had been smart enough to not declare war on the US its very hard to see how FDR could have entered the US into WWII.

The fact is that many of the wars the US has fought for 100s of years have been caused by the Europeans.

The fact is that the US has pulled the European demorcracies out of the fire more than once or twice.

And we spent decades afterwards keeping them free. Paying far more than they did and have in terms of blood and money. And what has the US asked for in return? Is it much to ask to not be cussed, disrespected, and made into some Evil Empire?

Since I'm slow please tell me how? If this is arrogance....
Later,
Dan

I put 50 buckets of water in a tank and you put 50 more buckets of water in the same tank and that fills it. Who actually filled the tank?

daedong said:

I put 50 buckets of water in a tank and you put 50 more buckets of water in the same tank and that fills it. Who actually filled the tank?

Click to expand...

Vin:

The Russians and Chinese may have more to talk about when it comes to "who filled the tank" of sacrificing lives.



When it comes to money, who can argue that America bailed out the Free World?

In fact, the BBC recently reported that the UK may have their 1945 war debt to US 'almost paid' by the end of 2006.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm

In general, Americans don’t seem to pay attention to foreign affairs. But deep down I believe we all know that taxes paid by American workers and businesses kept the Free World free for over 50 years. Did we Americans get a “thank you?” Not hardly, Americans get called names.

Has America ever rolled tanks into the street against freedom loving people, like the Soviets did in Hungry or the Chinese did in Tiananmen Square? But, Americans get called names.

Who paid for winning the Cold War? Who lost the most lives in Viet Nam? Who has the most troops in Korea? Who has the most troops in the Middle East? Still, America gets called names.

Who continues to bail out 3rd world countries?

Take Mexico for example. “The original crime, now being repeated, was the profligate lending of billions of dollars from the U.S. banking system between 1974 and 1982 to as gaudy a band of tinpot military dictators, kleptocratic presidents, and bon vivant finance ministers as ever graced a Connecticut Avenue diplomatic reception, followed in August 1982 by the discovery that the borrowers either could not or would not repay the money. But it was not practical politics to recognize the stupidity of the situation and call the lenders into account. No, orthodoxy and good form required the ongoing pretense that the loans were still good, with a host of jerry-built solutions from the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank. So, as an African economist once told me, ‘One class of people borrowed the money, and a different class of people had to pay it back.’"
http://www.imfsite.org/recentfin/mexican.html

Americans would tar and feather our leaders if we stopped working long enough to realize what’s been going on. Maybe that’s why foreigners call Americans stupid. Maybe they should call us generous or charitable.

Americans are arrogant? I don’t think we are. We Americans get pushed around and threatened by two bit, tin horn despots all around the world. Saddam Hussein bragged that he was going to water his palm trees with American blood. Mighty big talk for such a little man.

Do you know why America takes that kind of abuse? It’s for the same reason you would laugh if some 8 year old kid wanted to fist fight you.

At the present time, America is disarming much of our nuclear arsenal. By 2012 it is projected America's nuclear stockpile will “only” contain 5,945 warheads.
http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=so04norris

Do you think we are frightened of North Korea or Iran? We could wipe both those countries off the face of the Earth. But we won’t unless we’re attacked. That’s what those maniacs are counting on.

There is one thing that frightens me. America didn’t become the only super-power because our leaders are so smart. I firmly believe that God has blessed our land. Now some Americans want to turn their back on God. What will happen if God turns his back on America? I sure don't want to be a citizen of some putrid secular European style country.

Dutch-NJ

You have also missed the gist of my post but continue to prove my point.

daedong said:

Dutch-NJ
You have also missed the gist of my post but continue to prove my point.

Click to expand...

Vin:

What is your problem? How have I missed your "gist"?

What is the "gist" of your first post?

daedong said:

Writings like this depict an image that the USA are lone rangers saving the world. I personally find it insulting when many Australian Diggers lost their lives fighting alongside Americans in wars as allies fighting for the same purpose.
I read often where America done this and done that. The USA undoubtedly were/and are major players of many wars but the USA rarely have battled wars on their own?

[FONT=&quot]I grossly dislike this arrogance.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

I don't disagree that Australians Diggers lost their lives fighting alongside Americans in wars as allies fighting for the same purpose. I don't know any American that would disagree.

What is the "gist" of your "Australian War Memorial" post?

The Australian War Memorial may sound arrogant to some people. It doesn't sound arrogant to me. How can the truth be arrogant (having an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities)?

A free and democratic Australia is crucially important to peace in that part of the world? If Australia didn't have the ability to defend itself, it wouldn't exist today. Can't the same be said for America? Does that make either Australia or America arrogant?

I like Australians. I know several Australians personally. When they brag about Australia, I don't view them as arrogant.

Are Australians arrogant because they tell Muslim guests to shut up or leave?

How do the facts in my post conflict with the facts from the Australian War Memorial?

What in my post do you find not factual? How can stating the truth be arrogant?

I'll say this regarding importance, if it wasn't for the American military and American aid, many countries wouldn't exist in their current form today. Maybe Australia and a few other countries are self sufficient, but not many. Does that fact sound arrogant?

As for ability, permit me to add that I believe if America had to stand all alone against tyranny or invaders, America would survive. Does that sound arrogant?

Perhaps you're right, perhaps we are missing your "gist."

What "point" are you attempting to make?

What is your problem? How have I missed your "gist"?
I don’t know

What is the "gist" of your first post?
My point was not specifically this post but the recurring theme here on this forum of how the USA saved the world and how everyone else owes them. If you would like to search you will find plenty of post backing this claim.

I don't disagree that Australians Diggers lost their lives fighting alongside Americans in wars as allies fighting for the same purpose. I don't know any American that would disagree.
Good


What is the "gist" of your "Australian War Memorial" post?

It was simply pointing out that there is history other than your own and maybe some readers should read it to become a little more informed, I also made the comment that many other countries probably have similar sites too. There was no specific reference within that site

The Australian War Memorial may sound arrogant to some people. It doesn't sound arrogant to me. How can the truth be arrogant (having an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities)?

If there is any thing in this website that is arrogant please bring it to my attention and I will personally make a complaint.

A free and democratic Australia is crucially important to peace in that part of the world? If Australia didn't have the ability to defend itself, it wouldn't exist today. Can't the same be said for America? Does that make either Australia or America arrogant?
I don’t see your point

I like Australians. I know several Australians personally. When they brag about Australia, I don't view them as arrogant.
Well I would if they were bragging that they are better than others.


Are Australians arrogant because they tell Muslim guests to shut up or leave?
There is no arrogance it is simply what most Australians want. I would describe it more that of fear.

How do the facts in my post conflict with the facts from the Australian War Memorial?
They don’t I posted that because many here are unaware of many others countries efforts in wars

What in my post do you find not factual? How can stating the truth be arrogant?
Arrogance has nothing to do with the truth

I'll say this regarding importance, if it wasn't for the American military and American aid, many countries wouldn't exist in their current form today. Maybe Australia and a few other countries are self sufficient, but not many. Does that fact sound arrogant?
NO

As for ability, permit me to add that I believe if America had to stand all alone against tyranny or invaders, America would survive. Does that sound arrogant?
NO

Perhaps you're right, perhaps we are missing your "gist."
Answered at the start of this thread

What "point" are you attempting to make?
Already answered.


Nowhere have I denied that America has played major roles in most wars in the last century or so.
But as previously stated the USA has rarely fought a war alone. My analogy of who filled the bucket was trying to highlight this point and had nothing to do with lives lost.


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]




BTW don’t you ever sleep!

daedong said:

BTW don’t you ever sleep!

Click to expand...

If I told you the truth, you may think I was bragging or arrogant.

More American Conceit.

Just for your amusement, Vin.

Av8r3400 said:

More American Conceit.

Just for your amusement, Vin.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, an interesting video clip, it was mildly amusing to me. Do you have any more along a similar vain, I would love to share more with my aussie mates.