Home Generator Questions

Hey folks, not sure who has what out there in terms of small home generators but I'm looking for some advice.

I've got a 16hp Briggs & Stratton V-twin Vanguard engine that powers my generator. Its a tri-fuel unit that is hooked up to run on natural gas with a gasoline back up.

My question is, that since this engine, and most small generator engines like it, are basically Lawn Tractor size/type engines, how long do you run yours non-stop? And do you leave yours on over night while you are sleeping?

I typically run mine about 3 to 6 hours, shut it down to cool off, check the oil and restart. The downtime is typically 15 minutes, could be 30 during the daytime if I've got a nice cup of coffee.

Also I don't run mine all night, no matter how cold it is outside. I may run it until midnight, then shut it down and get up around 4 or 5 and fire it back up in the early morning hours so I can have a nice cup of coffee. Or, I may shut it down at 10, then fire it up at about 3am and go back to bed. I just don't feel comfortable with it running all night.

Do you run yours if nobody is home (even for short durations like a quick trip to the grocery store)?

HOW LONG WILL THESE THINGS LAST IF YOU JUST LET THEM RUN?

BTW, mine is 10+ years old, I replace the batter every 3 years, keep the batter on an electronic conditioner + charger 24/7/365.

JUST CURIOUS WHAT YOU FOLKS DO???

I'm scared to answer this right now as I might jinx myself.

I can't even remember exactly how big mine is.. I do run it over night once in a while but not normally. I can run the whole house off it if I like, but don't. Last year we actually only about 4 hours at a time for the most part. We heat with wood so the house was warm and we cooked on the stove too. We ran it to keep the fridge and freezer cold. I know we COULD run it harder than we do, but why burn the gas if u don't need to...

Good Post Bob !

A B&S is a good old motor . I think you are doing it right . I know a lot of the standby generators run with a Kolher engine . I have always been told they last longer . I do not know if this is true .
Does yours have automatic Low Oil shutdown ?? My Honda did and I use to run it 8 plus hours at a tiime without worry . I can't say much about the V-twin ,because I don't know .

Hey Bob, does it say anything in the manual that came with the generator? If not you should be able to run it for as long as it has oil and fuel and is not getting hot. This is what you got the generator for when you have no other power . Big Al is right most backup generators have low oil pressure or level shut down switchs. Still you are being safe by making sure it has oil and is running right. Hope your power comes back soon.

I would make th assumption that since it is tr-fuel and thus can be connected to a continuous fuel supply (propane/nat gas) that it would be able to run continuously for much longer than a regular portable generator.

It has a low oil shut down, but I try not to test things like that!!!

My guess is, that this thing probably can run 24/7 for a few days but I guess I just prefer to treat it in a more gentle fashion. It says it can be run non-stop but what it says and what actually is may not be the same? My logic is that when we have power from the utility we have a back-up plan, but when we are running on the generator we have no more back up plans!!! So I tend to be a bit on the conservative side and that is why I run it shorter runs, check the oil, and restart it.

BTW, we got our power on sometime last night while we were sleeping.

B_Skurka said:

It has a low oil shut down, but I try not to test things like that!!!

My guess is, that this thing probably can run 24/7 for a few days but I guess I just prefer to treat it in a more gentle fashion. It says it can be run non-stop but what it says and what actually is may not be the same? My logic is that when we have power from the utility we have a back-up plan, but when we are running on the generator we have no more back up plans!!! So I tend to be a bit on the conservative side and that is why I run it shorter runs, check the oil, and restart it.

BTW, we got our power on sometime last night while we were sleeping.

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I know when we used to go to the auto races & camp there, that hundreds of those noisy SOB's ran nonstop overnight every race we went to. Seems like the loudest models were owned by the people who pulled in next to our camper. I just wished for mechanical falure, but they never quit.

Bob, originally I designed a system just like yours with a tri-fuel generator but our outages are more of an inconvenience that anything else. In 12 years the longest we've been without power is 3 days, most last only a few hours. We've got natural gas cook-top and water heaters so I decided to go with a smaller gas model principally to run the 5 fridges and freezers and supply some lights.

I've never let it run unattended all night. I'll cycle all the fridges and freezers last thing at night and then shut it down. I'll get up after about four or five hours, start her up again and cycle everything once more. All in all, it probably runs about 6 to 8 hours a day, at the very most, in order to keep everything functioning and the house comfortable.

As for how long they last, I don't know. I've seen gas models advertised as having a 2,000 to 5,000 hour life expectancy but I don't know how realistic that is. As much as mine gets used, I expect it to last forever. The only generator that I've known to actually fail did so because of lack of lubrication ... no low oil shutdown, and it "froze" up solid. I think it's probably like most other mechanical equipment, if you maintain them and exercise them occasionally, they'll last a long, long time because they don't usually get a whole lot of hours put on them ... at least where I am. You guys up north may have a different take on things.

I'm sorry for the double post but Bob's comment about having no back-up for the generator was something that worried me for the longest time. I couldn't really justify a second generator, although I do badly want a bigger pto generator, so I got a 1500 watt, 3000 watt surge inverter. Hooked up to the diesel truck or tractors, it'll easily run a fridge/freezer and supply light and I have plenty of fuel to keep it working. I've even used it on occasions to power tools down in the "back 40" when I've been too lazy to haul the generator down there.

I still haven't bought me my "permanent" 50kw or so sized generator that I want to get. My current one is similar to yours but is a gas only Honda powered unit. In my mind, I bought the thing to provide me and my family with power when the power is out. I run it non-stop and have even hooked it up to a larger fuel tank one time so I didn't have to shut it off any to refill it. I've never had any problems. If I do have problems, I'll chuck it and buy another. The way I see it, the generator is to serve me and my family. If it wears out doing that then it was either junk or time to get another.

Running LP or NG the little motor will run much cleaner and happier. It should be able to run continuously for the duration of fuel availability or until an oil change interval is reached. (250 hours??) If it burns oil, the low oil switch will shut it down. (If it doesn't, rebuilding one of these little motors is cheap.)

If I were running mine continuously, I'd shut down weekly for an oil change and maybe daily only for an oil check.

Dargo said:

I still haven't bought me my "permanent" 50kw or so sized generator that I want to get. My current one is similar to yours but is a gas only Honda powered unit. In my mind, I bought the thing to provide me and my family with power when the power is out. I run it non-stop and have even hooked it up to a larger fuel tank one time so I didn't have to shut it off any to refill it. I've never had any problems. If I do have problems, I'll chuck it and buy another. The way I see it, the generator is to serve me and my family. If it wears out doing that then it was either junk or time to get another.

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Brent, clearly mine is hooked up to a never ending fuel supply so in theory it could run and run and run. But I'm really afraid to do that. If yours dies in the middle of the storm, then what?

Honestly I've been thinking of upgrading to a water cooled permanent unit in the 25,000 watt range to run the whole house, but as long as this one works then I can't justify getting rid of it. And this one is working great. I suppose I can push it harder. But it been perfect, runs great, starts every time, no problems.

I only am cautious because I'd hate to lose the generator mid-storm.

Mine has a low-oil shut-off. When it's in need it runs continuously. It's a Coleman 5000w that's 16+ years old. Loud but I set it outside below living level and you can hardly hear it in the house.

I have a semi portable generator rated at 8 KW continous with a surge wattage to 12.5 KW rating. It is an Onan branded gas powered generator that can be used as a portable but in reality it is almost too heavy and bulky to move even on his wheeled cart very far. It has a built in battery trickle charger, electric start, full flow oil system with a low oil shut down. These were requirements that I wanted and used to spec the unit. The full flow oil system is important for extended use intervals. I use synthetic oil in the gen and stablizer in the fuel system. I power the house but not the well at one time. I have a bulk water storage tank that I can switch to when we have a power outage and it is pressurized with a 120 volt park model RV pump which runs off the home circuit. I normally keep about 80 gallons of water in the tank which stretched will last for up to 4 days but it can hold up to 300 gallons. I have to switch the generator to the separate well circuit to fill the tank if I need additional water. I also do not have automatic start upon a power outage and must manually change my gen start disconnect switch and plug the gen to the house when needed. This process takes about 15 minutes to get up and going when a power outage occurs. I did not want to have automatic start as we are gone often and I just prefer the way I have it set. Also, if needed this allows me to move the generator easily to another location.

We have designed for an extended power outage. The home is setup to be functional without electricity and was until grid power was extended in 1996. We have a great wood stove that you can cook on, micro volt thermostats on 3 separate propane furnaces for the two levels even if one or two fail that will heat and keep things from freezing down past -35F. We have the old 12 volt lighting system prior to grid power with lights still in place in the house. I keep a deep cycle battery on a trickle charger in the gen shed so the lights are ready when needed. I am at the end of the power grid in the mountains and have designed the house to work without grid power for an extended time period if needed. I have a bulk gas tank that holds up to 500 gallons. In an extended outage I try to only run the generator about 8 out of 24 hours max. We find things to do in the dark or with only the oil lamps or just candles. Now the bad news is, I have only run the generator for about 7 hours in the last 18 months and most of this has been just maintenance cycle time.

We also have two smaller gas generators rated at 1 Kw and 1.2 KW for portable use and emergency if needed.

I expect with good maintenance practices on the generator it will out last me.

mtntopper said:

I also do not have automatic start upon a power outage and must manually change my gen start disconnect switch and plug the gen to the house when needed. This process takes about 15 minutes to get up and going when a power outage occurs.

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Mine is also a manual start. When we put our system in place the permanent type systems were really rare and I did not even know about them. Still, I'm really happy with the system we have in place.

My generator is in the corner of the garage and connected to the natural gas line. It is electric start. To start it, I simply turn a valve on the natural gas line to allow flow to the generator, pull the "choke" on the engine and turn the key. There is a pull start back up. Once it fires up, which is usually almost instantly, adjust the choke and you are done with it. Step 2 is to go downstairs to the fuse box and flip the "cut over" switch. The whole process takes about 2 minutes. Its simple enough that Mrs_B can do it (and has done it). Mine is always "plugged in" but can be simply unplugged (it uses a heavy duty 'twist lock' type connector). Is yours in a location that does not allow it to be kept plugged in?

Bob when I was in the Army engineers we were trained to change the engine oil every 10 hours of run time. Do to the fact that a small engine does not have a lot of oil in it. The oil will break down sooner than later and cause premature engine failure. In my own case I have a 4000 watt and I change the oil every 10 hours or so of run time.

Deerlope said:

Bob when I was in the Army engineers we were trained to change the engine oil every 10 hours of run time. Do to the fact that a small engine does not have a lot of oil in it. The oil will break down sooner than later and cause premature engine failure. In my own case I have a 4000 watt and I change the oil every 10 hours or so of run time.

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IIRC mine can run longer than that between changes. We changed it every other day. Like Mnt we tried not to run more that 8 to 12 hours a day...

I do run Amsoil 0W30 full synthetic in mine, but I still let it run pretty well non-stop when needed. It's only something like 8500 continous output with a 14 hp engine. It sits outside when running so we don't hear it. I think the time I ran it for 4 or 5 days I shut it off 3 or 4 times to check the oil. Never dropped any. I usually change the oil each fall.

If it failed during a storm I'd have to get my Miller Bobcat welder out and use it. I have a 00 size twist lock cable I made up that connects it. Prices are starting to drop so I may get that larger sized permanent and fully automatic setup I want this next year. For now that old Honda hasn't faultered yet even the way I use it.

B_Skurka said:

Is yours in a location that does not allow it to be kept plugged in?

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I keep my gen stored in the corner of the shed and usually move it closer to the double doors which I leave open while running. I could leave it plugged in both to the house and generator but I would probably end up tripping over the cord. Mine also uses twist lock type connectors. I am limited on space and do not find it a big deal to setup when needed. The only thing I wish I would of done differently is to wire the well pump into the house circuitry when I did the rest of the electrical. I have the well and the rest of the outside electrical on a separate 100 amp circuit. The amp size of the change over disconnect to work for all of my electrical at one time would of tripled in price versus the one I am using. My generator would of needed to be larger also to run it all at one time. The main thing for my requirements for a backup system is to make it functional enough to get by until the grid comes back up. I don't need to generate power to sell back.....

I also found when I did my inventory on backup power requirements to run the home basics and maintain close to normal that I did not need to go any larger on the generator than 8 KW with the surge wattage to 12.5 KW. It is easy to assume you need more but who needs to really run a welder and other high power usage equipment when the grid power is not available?

Well if it is the model I was thinking, it has a oil filter to change out when you change oil, so the oil issue is that it has a shutoff too if the oil gets too low.

The engine running time isn't a real big deal if it is a standby generator, you will get a lot of years out of it if you use a good synthetic oil like Mobile One, since your normal runtime isn't going to be full time, I would let the engine run as long as you need it, check the oil level twice a day and change it at about 150 hours of run time or once every year after about an hour's run time to get it hot and suspend any particulates into the oil when draining the oil out.

If you ran the engine full time and changed out the oil regularly, it would run for three or four years before wearing out in a full time mode. So in a standby mode, it will last a lot of years and may rust out before being worn out.

If you are going to be gone, and there is nothing needing to be ran when you are gone, then turn it off, it there is, then let it run, except for the cost of fuel being an issue. Most of the designed Generator standby units have shutoffs for overheating and oil loss.

In the event that you have gasoline for a backup fuel other than LPG, then make sure the tank is drained out once a year and refilled with new gas and put some fuel stabilizer into it so the gas won't go bad (or leave the tank empty and have gas cans rotated to use at such a time). Otherwise you will have fuel issues later on when you really need the gasoline side of the system.

Mine is a 15KW with 22.5KW peak.

It runs everything in the house except the heat-pump and furnace.

In general, I run it for 5-6 hours in the AM to get hot water for showers and to re-cool the fridges/freezers then shut it down mid-afternoon. I re-start at around 5 PM and let run for another 4-5 hours so Mrs. Zoom can cook and we have lights and such until bed time. During those run times, I also plug in the battery charger to re-charge the deep-cycle marine batteries.

At night, the generator is off and I run the batteries/inverters for night-lights and alarm clocks.

Actually, the 7500w I had worked just as well but was hoping the larger could run the heat pump. It can't...

Mtntopper - Don't you have multiple plugs off the generator where you can run once circuit for water, the other for the house?

During our last outage (about a week), I ran the 50 amp circuit to my house then the 30 amp over to the neighbors house to keep their fridges/freezers going. It had no problem running both.

mtntopper said:

I also found when I did my inventory on backup power requirements to run the home basics and maintain close to normal that I did not need to go any larger on the generator than 8 KW with the surge wattage to 12.5 KW. It is easy to assume you need more but who needs to really run a welder and other high power usage equipment when the grid power is not available?

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My problem is the surge issue. IF my well pump, my furnace fan and the refrigerators kicked on at roughly the same time then I'd go over my surge. I can run more of my whole house on my generator if I set up the switch panel to do it, but know how my daughter leaves lights and other stuff on all over the house, I figured it was better to select circuits that are really needed.

One thing I wish I had powered is my garage. Its not a big deal to use a flashlight in the garage, but it would be more convenient to use the automatic door openers instead of manually. Still, I'm NOT complaining, I have heat and lights and most of my circuits. If this generator dies, I'll upgrade to about 20,000 watts and power the whole house. If it keeps chugging along like it is doing, then its really hard to justify spending the money to replace something that works perfectly.

Oh yeah!! The well! That's why we have to run ours in the morning.. knew I was forgetting something... I hope I only have to use mine at horses shows in the future...

The deep well pump and the A/C .... not a problem. They are both 3-phase so I can't run them anyway. Once you take those power hogs out of the equation, you can get by with a lot smaller generator.

Mtntopper - Don't you have multiple plugs off the generator where you can run once circuit for water, the other for the house?

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I have additional 120 volt outlets on the gen but only one 240 volt which I have in use for the house. I never sized 240 volt well pump into the wattage requirements when I spec'd the generator. The well pump puts a good load on the generator and with all the household being powered the gen is most likely under powered and under size for both circuits at the same time. I always figured on using the water tank with the 120 volt pressure pump during power outages. Now I wish I would of just sized everything up for the time when it is -30F and I have to go out and change over to pump water to refill the tank.............

Live and learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went with a Kohler 12 KW running on the endless (?) supply of natural gas with auto start and auto switchover. The main reason I have it is for when I'm travelling such that all systems can stay live with the main concern being furnace, alarm/video, fridge, communications, and lighting. Most of the house is hooked up but I neglected the garage.

I have a gas-powered 3KW backup generator with a manual switchover in the event that the Kohler breaks down.

I was happy to find that the Kohler I bought had a change to the Honda engine. The system is designed to run constantly after a power outage is sensed and it auto starts itself once very week and runs for 15 minutes. I like that cycling and the battery is topped up through the grid regularly.

I love having it. Really great to know it's there. I change the oil once every 6 months and it rarely gets use.... total in the last 5 years has been 80 hrs which is almost all the regular weekly self-run.

On another note and an interesting system... a family member and I looked at his system needs long and hard.... he really wanted to power every nook and cranny and also have extra power in case of expansion. So in talking through the possibilities... we decided to go with a multi-node setup for sake of redundancy. So, he wanted at least 40 KW and he liked my Kohler (which has one of the most consistent/steady voltage outputs on the market unlike some of the crap out there like Generac), so he went with three of the 15 KW units (I believe it was the 15...have to check but larger than mine). So, the default is that one kicks on which will power everything needed at the base subsistence level...security, fridge, heat, etc.... then if he is home he can jack it up and crank up one or two more of the generators to power everything including air con, garage, etc... If the initial one fails to fire then the next in line takes over and kicks on and so on until all 3 are exhausted. If the lord has deemed him unworthy of 3 generators starting then he deserves everything he gets. This approach also got over some local zoning issues about over-sized generators.
We had way too much fun with that obviously.

Mainer said:

I went with a Kohler 12 KW running on the endless (?) supply of natural gas with auto start and auto switchover. The main reason I have it is for when I'm travelling such that all systems can stay live with the main concern being furnace, alarm/video, fridge, communications, and lighting. Most of the house is hooked up but I neglected the garage.

I have a gas-powered 3KW backup generator with a manual switchover in the event that the Kohler breaks down.

I was happy to find that the Kohler I bought had a change to the Honda engine. The system is designed to run constantly after a power outage is sensed and it auto starts itself once very week and runs for 15 minutes. I like that cycling and the battery is topped up through the grid regularly.

I love having it. Really great to know it's there. I change the oil once every 6 months and it rarely gets use.... total in the last 5 years has been 80 hrs which is almost all the regular weekly self-run.

On another note and an interesting system... a family member and I looked at his system needs long and hard.... he really wanted to power every nook and cranny and also have extra power in case of expansion. So in talking through the possibilities... we decided to go with a multi-node setup for sake of redundancy. So, he wanted at least 40 KW and he liked my Kohler (which has one of the most consistent/steady voltage outputs on the market unlike some of the crap out there like Generac), so he went with three of the 15 KW units (I believe it was the 15...have to check but larger than mine). So, the default is that one kicks on which will power everything needed at the base subsistence level...security, fridge, heat, etc.... then if he is home he can jack it up and crank up one or two more of the generators to power everything including air con, garage, etc... If the initial one fails to fire then the next in line takes over and kicks on and so on until all 3 are exhausted. If the lord has deemed him unworthy of 3 generators starting then he deserves everything he gets. This approach also got over some local zoning issues about over-sized generators.
We had way too much fun with that obviously.

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Sounds like a pretty nice system with the Paralel ablility in it. When the LP system goes out, I assume that there a gasoline backup? Regardless, sounds like a pretty good deal, not to mention the load ablility, you can run a small town with that much juice...

fogtender said:

Sounds like a pretty nice system with the Paralel ablility in it. When the LP system goes out, I assume that there a gasoline backup? Regardless, sounds like a pretty good deal, not to mention the load ablility, you can run a small town with that much juice...

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Yea, have some large propane tanks as cut-over. The natural gas supply could be an issue, btw, but it would be an unlikely scenario. To the other option, if natural gas weren't available to the house then we'd have the propane as main supply and would have designed in alternate fuel supply as you mention such as gas etc...

Basically, the maximum flow of natural gas to the house is insufficient to power every consuming device in the house if all were hammering away on full blast with all generators sucking away as well.

This would be highly improbable and we put a solution in place even in that case. For this to occur, the pool heater, jacuzzi heater (seperate) and kitchen and hot water heater and furnace would have to be firing away (yes, in transitional months between seasons it's possible but still unlikely).... so given the pool is shut down after a certain point in the year but jacuzzi is still live, etc... you can see the situation. However, even in these cases there is connectivity to the pool systems for propane as well. But, what would naturally happen is the pool and jacuzzi would be put into idle mode.... and the only issue arises with all nodes of the system running.

So, if no one is home then that's fine too because only one generator kicks on. One generator and all other consuming devices (including pool and jazuzzi) is fine... and kitchen wouldn't be but even if it was then the flow is still sufficient.

Anyway, it was fun.

What amazes me...absolutely amazes me... is that when people are buying homes (starting at design phase for new build) or cabins that it's not a natural default to drop a modest generator in. If anyone is going to shy away from buying a place becuase it's a few thousand more then there are probably other issues anyway...could they afford the base cost itself. Anyway, I'm always surprised given the convenience and ease of installation during design/build vs. retrofit.

Personally, in designing our cabin, I'm going to incorporate a multi-node generator system (with manual plug-in option for alternate mobile generator just in case), but also the outdoor wood-burning furnace that can power the whole house for heat so at least there are multiple levels of redundancy that will provide base subsistence level needs like heat. As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I like the idea of having the 12 V lights though too... I'm going to incorporate that into the design and run 12V throughout.

What advantage to 12v lights provide?