Throwing away my vote?

Well, it's obvious by now that John McCain will be facing one of two Democratic candidates in November. I've decided that I'm not happy with the Republican candidate, or either of the Democratic possibilities and am exploring other options. Am I throwing my vote away, or sending a message that neither of the major candidates are qualified to lead the executive branch, or simply voting for the person whom I think is best suited for the job, even if they don't stand a chance of winning?



At this time, I'm leaning towards casting my vote for Chuck Baldwin, running for President in the Constitution Party. I don't agree with everything he has to say, or everything in the part platform, but it's time to make a point that there are better choices out there.
Here's some excerpts from the party's press release announcing his candidacy--

(from http://www.constitutionparty.com)

Largest 3rd Party Presidential Candidate To Challenge “Big Box” Parties
Kansas City, Mo. (April 26,2008)
"The Constitution Party chose a presidential candidate at a nominating convention held this weekend in Kansas City, MO...

"Baldwin... addressed the Constitution Party delegates in a passionate speech that outlined his concern that elected officials from both the Republican and Democrat parties had abandoned the principles of limited government.

"Baldwin went on to point out “If elected, I will end the lunacy that sends Americans abroad to guard the borders of Iraq, while leaving our borders wide open, inviting illegals to plunder the wealth and good will of American citizens”.

"Chuck Baldwin, a Constitution Party member for a number of years, promised, that if elected he would work to protect the lives of the unborn, abolish the IRS and the Federal Reserve, support home schooling, and “eviscerate” vast numbers of unconstitutional federal programs like the Department of Energy (“we have more than enough oil in Alaska”) and Social Security (“which is nothing more than socialism”). Baldwin promised to get “the U.S. out of the U.N. and the U.N. out of the U.S.”, to abolish the department of Homeland Security and to end foreign aid...

"Baldwin vowed to honor his oath to uphold the Constitution. He acknowledged that the Christian principles of our Founding documents guaranteed liberty for people of all creeds, and “pledge(d) to cultivate a climate in D.C. which reins in government and reminds those in power they are bound by limits set in place by our Constitution."

If it mattered, they wouldn't allow us to vote.

Gatorboy said:

If it mattered, they wouldn't allow us to vote.

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28 years of a Bush or a Clinton as president or vice-president... 36 years (!) if Hillary serves two terms.
Who says it really matters?

NO you are not throwing away your vote! You are using it to show Americans that some of us are sick and tired of the run of the mill, good ole boys bs coming from Washington.

It is a shame on the media that these 3rd parties dont have the air time (free I might add) that the scum bag dem and reps have.

I am with you, but voting independant

AndyM said:

28 years of a Bush or a Clinton as president or vice-president... 36 years (!) if Hillary serves two terms.
Who says it really matters?

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and nothing good from any of it, unless billy boy tells us it was good.

we sure as hell dont need hillarious running the govt from the ovary office

Yes you are throwing away your vote.

As I wrote in another thread, this year there is no viable 3rd party. In fact this year there is no credible 3rd party at all. There is no candidate who will get close to 5% of the vote. Last cycle the closest person to get that was Nader and he got about 5%, this year the liberal wing of the Democratic party have abandoned Nader and blame him for the Dems losing the election. I would bet that he gets 3% or less of the vote. No other so-called 3rd party candidate will get close to 3%.

What that all means is that a 'protest' vote will be so insignificant that it will be simply ignored.

Yes you are wasting your vote. So is Danny.

By voting anything but a Dem or a Rep, you are throwing away your vote.

If you lean toward Dem, then vote for the Dem. If you don't you may get the Rep. If you lean Rep, vote for the Rep or you may get the Dem. Don't complain later, either.

It's a business decision. Not a feelings or a I'll-show-them decision.

The winner doesn't give a rat's ass who lost; he/she won.
The looser doesn't give a rat's ass, he/she probably will never run again.

Do you honestly believe that either of the two Dems have been influenced by the votes Nader received? "Sending a mesage" does not do so. It just lets the other majority party win.

B_Skurka said:

Yes you are throwing away your vote.

As I wrote in another thread, this year there is no viable 3rd party. In fact this year there is no credible 3rd party at all. There is no candidate who will get close to 5% of the vote. Last cycle the closest person to get that was Nader and he got about 5%, this year the liberal wing of the Democratic party have abandoned Nader and blame him for the Dems losing the election. I would bet that he gets 3% or less of the vote. No other so-called 3rd party candidate will get close to 3%.

What that all means is that a 'protest' vote will be so insignificant that it will be simply ignored.

Yes you are wasting your vote. So is Danny.

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spoken like a bought and paid for politician..............sorry Bob but you are wrong, our votes will be counted, just as yours will be. and they will be counted for a change in the bought and paid for system you seem to be supporting.

waybomb said:

By voting anything but a Dem or a Rep, you are throwing away your vote.

If you lean toward Dem, then vote for the Dem. If you don't you may get the Rep. If you lean Rep, vote for the Rep or you may get the Dem. Don't complain later, either.

It's a business decision. Not a feelings or a I'll-show-them decision.

The winner doesn't give a rat's ass who lost; he/she won.
The looser doesn't give a rat's ass, he/she probably will never run again.

Do you honestly believe that either of the two Dems have been influenced by the votes Nader received? "Sending a mesage" does not do so. It just lets the other majority party win.

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Just how do you justify this? is this not a free country? Are you telling us that voting 3rd party will not make a difference, not at all? Are you saying that we have to vote either dem or rep because the system says so? Well welcome to the bought and paid for mindless thinking bunch. i want someone to show me where 1 million votes against someone wont make a difference? There may be only one vote in my town for Nader, but damn it, I will be the one to make it.

waybomb said:

If you lean toward Dem, then vote for the Dem. If you don't you may get the Rep. If you lean Rep, vote for the Rep or you may get the Dem. Don't complain later, either.

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But I don't agree with either party's candidate, at least enough to consider voting for either one. If the Republicans would have landed someone different, I might reconsider. However, at this time, I don't see where one is better than the other.

waybomb said:

Do you honestly believe that either of the two Dems have been influenced by the votes Nader received? "Sending a mesage" does not do so. It just lets the other majority party win.

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I'm not voting for Nader. I don't agree with him on hardly anything, and voting for him to "send a message" wouldn't help me any. I'm backing a candidate in a different party, for the person who I think is most qualified, not the person who has the best chance of winning. If we keep voting for someone who is most electable instead of most qualified, we'll keep electing the one with the most recognizable name... we'll end up with Bushes and Clintons forever. Say, how old will Chelsea Clinton and Jenna Bush be in eight years?

AndyM said:

I'm not voting for Nader. I don't agree with him on hardly anything, and voting for him to "send a message" wouldn't help me any. I'm backing a candidate in a different party, for the person who I think is most qualified, not the person who has the best chance of winning. If we keep voting for someone who is most electable instead of most qualified, we'll keep electing the one with the most recognizable name... we'll end up with Bushes and Clintons forever. Say, how old will Chelsea Clinton and Jenna Bush be in eight years?

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AMEN, finally someone sees this................can we say

It doesn't really matter who is President. They can't wave their wand and change things on their own.

If the President had real power, you would see better candidates.

Republicans and Democrats pretty much are the same -- only on a few issues to they differ slightly. Someday, maybe not in my lifetime, a viable 3rd party will emerge.

Gatorboy said:

It doesn't really matter who is President. They can't wave their wand and change things on their own.

If the President had real power, you would see better candidates.

Republicans and Democrats pretty much are the same -- only on a few issues to they differ slightly. Someday, maybe not in my lifetime, a viable 3rd party will emerge.

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GB, lets hope it is before our lifetime has expired, it will take big time change. Ever watch Star Trek, I am not so sure their form of govt is all that bad

Here are a few things that came to my mind about this and elections in general.

To me....Bob and Waybomb demonstrated, in thier own way, examples of what I see as the apathy that exists in this country. Although they will participate, there seems to be a certain resignation about the impact, or lack there of, that they will have on the bigger picture and consequently take a "BTN..(better than nothing) approach. I think that each has given thought and has come to thier own conclusion as to how thier vote would best serve what they believe is in the best interest of the country. I think though it's like having to decide which one of the two holes in the sinking ship you're gonna plug up.

The unwillingness of the citizens to force Real change is the single largest contributor to the current situation. We do not give the kind of candidate we all really want, any incentive to leave the private sector. We (the people) take no active responsibility for what we in fact have created with our apathy.

In all fairness, the apathy I refer to, for each person is partly controllable and partly not. From the need for two or more incomes to survive, or the inconvenience of participating or the ignorance of and general distaste/disdane for the process, we basically allow the things we see to happen.

We do not require accountability or scream loud enough when that accountability is ignored or circumvented. We are so busy with surviving or living or playing or what ever that we don't demand the media be more responsible, or that the parties or candidates be more responsible or that or elected officials behave in a manner that is truly representive of the "Will of the people" and not thier own personal career agenda. We allow a sort of "Speaking in tounges" approach by our candidates when they tell us why we should vote for them. We have such a love of all things "Hollywood" that we allow ourselves to become blinded by the glitz.

IF...."We the people" could make this about us again if we wanted. Unfortunately like many things that effect us we'd really rather let the other guy deal with it because I've got other things to do!

It seems that we spend more time doing what we want to do and don't do what we need to do.


I believe that there will be a counting "of sorts" of the non-major party votes cast. The truth is, if everyone voted for someone other than the eventual representitives of the two primary parties:

1) we'd have a real mess on our hands (but no more than we already do)
2) People might actually wake up and by than I mean the politicians.
3) Maybe, just maybe folks will once again believe that thier vote truly counted for something other than "Getting it over with".

We want our respective elected officials at every level to "Do the right thing" for the people they represent yet we do not do what is right for ourselves.

Bottom line is, If you don't tend the garden, it becomes a home for snakes and other unwanted critters.

It seems to me that Mccain is the lesser of the evils, the best of the "Go or go homers" if you will.

Guess that's all for now...Thanks for listinin

Cowboyjg said:

To me....Bob and Waybomb demonstrated, in thier own way, examples of what I see as the apathy that exists in this country. Although they will participate, there seems to be a certain resignation about the impact, or lack there of. . .

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I think you make some excellent points.

There needs to be a splintering of the parties, and this election may do that to the Democrats. Odds are higher it will happen if Hillary is elected because the real liberal left may break off, along with the blacks. The GOP needs to be split as well so that a real Constitutionally Conservative party can exist.

In THIS election cycle there is no viable 3rd party.

While I was not a support of Ross Perot, I do admire what he did and hope that some day (soon) we will see another monied individual stand up and work to start another party. I believe Michael Bloomberg could do it if he wanted (I don't agree with his politics) but he is a centrist and could take the left leaners from the GOP and the moderates from the Dems and form a centrist party.

But if someone would show me a VIABLE candidate in a 3rd party THIS year then I would likely vote for that person. The reality that NONE are on the political radar, none will achieve votes in excess of the minority fringe, and none of the current 3rd parties stand any chance in a national election. The LIBERTARIANS have the most elected officials of any 3rd party and are by far the biggest and best known. Without doing a Google search can anyone tell me the name of their candidate (or even if they have one)?

I don't care for McCain, but I'd take a bullet before I'd pull a lever for a democRat. If you want to send a message, vote all incumbents out of office, otherwise you're just pissing up a rope. It will never happen though.

R-E-A-L-I-T-Y

If a 3rd party or write in gets even 10% of the vote, nothing will change. If you think it will, fine. I can't change your mind. But the Dems and the Reps are expert at keeping 2-party alive, and that's the way it will be.

It is a free country and you can do almost anyting you want. You want to vote Humpty Dumpty - go ahead. Nader floats your boat, go ahead and vote for him. I never said you couldn't.

No, I am not apathetic. I am a realist. You will not get 25,000,000 voting for a third party candidate, much less 100,000,000. Not this time. The reality is MOST people will vote for one of the two parties' cadiidates.

But you won't get anything you want. And the parties will not change anything as a result. PROOF - last election. What changed? Has either Dem candidate changed their view or public position as a result of Nader? Has any courted the Nader contingent? NO. And they lost an election because of it! How compelling is that? They admit it and call Nader the spoiler.

You can dream for a third party, but it won't happen. Not this time. Maybe in the future, but there is no viable 3rd party candidate.

If you lean toward Dem, then vote for the Dem closest to your views.
You don't have a choice if you lean toward conservative views. In either case, if you lean toward Dem, and you vote 3rd party, and your vote swung the election to a Rep, what did you gain? Or vice versa. No, you sent no message that was heard by those in power. They don't care.

You can vote with your heart, or vote with your head.

waybomb said:

Maybe in the future,.....

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When does the future begin?

waybomb said:

If you lean toward Dem, then vote for the Dem closest to your views.
You don't have a choice if you lean toward conservative views...

...In either case, if you lean toward Dem, and you vote 3rd party, and your vote swung the election to a Rep, what did you gain? Or vice versa. No, you sent no message that was heard by those in power. They don't care.

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You are correct.
My voting for Chuck Baldwin will not send a message to anyone. The leadership within the two parties don't care what I think.

However, in this year's election, it doesn't matter if you vote for the Democrat or for the Republican candidate... they aren't that far apart politically, and really won't get anything productive accomplished during their term(s).

The only thing I know will happen is someone lousy will become the next president and I will have a clean conscience knowing I voted for someone I thought was better. It sends a message to no one but me.

^^^^ Agree with most of that.

As for the future - if a 3rd party candidate wants to make a run for it in 2012, he/she better start now and better have very deep pockets. TV ads alone won't do it. Maybe have a tv show where every misstep by the incumbant is analyzed to death. Maybe a weekly recap of all the screwups, evidence of lies, not keeping campaign promises. Maybe a weekly segment called follow-the-money. Ahh, but that won't work; what network would air it?

So, the proposed candidate would have to start up their own network.

How else will a third party candidate even come close to being meaningful enough to have even 30% of the voting registered voters vote for him/her?

Just hoping that 60% of all voters suddenly miraculously vote non-party is delusional. There needs to be a plan. What is it?

ddrane2115 said:

spoken like a bought and paid for politician..............sorry Bob but you are wrong, our votes will be counted, just as yours will be. and they will be counted for a change in the bought and paid for system you seem to be supporting.

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I am with the others, your vote will be wasted. This meager independents and your votes for them aren't going to put a dent in the system. Yes your votes, all 3000 of them nationwide, won't accomplish a thing. Look how well Ross Perot did and what difference did it make?