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Track belting

59muskeg

Member
I think it would be great if we all pooled our knowledge and connections on replacement belting sources on here. I have worked at ski areas off and on for many years as a mechanic on groomers,I am well aware of petersons,falline,hanshall etc. But there has to be a more economical way of replacing belting. I for one simply do not have $500.00 plus to purchase 1 8inch belt letalone eight of them for my spryte. I have been doing alot or research on belting material. I have found 3 suppliers for belting. The belting will perform to -40, its 3ply nylon/polyester 3/16 top coat and 1/16 bottom coat,it has less than a 2% strech factor over its life. This is a 330 piw rating. I can get 8inch by 23feet 6inches for 185.00 a belt, or about 350.00 punched out each. Falline has a contract hush with one supplier, The point I am trying to make is there has to be a cheaper way to buy belting that will perform on out cats that is affordable.
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
I agree ! I purchased my belting from a conveyor belting supplier . They had a ton of different styles for all kinds of needs . I also ended up with a 3 ply that with stands super cold temps . It works fine . I paid about $900 for a full set . That is 4 belts on each side for a total of 8-6 inch x 23 feet belts. I purchased it from Capitol Rubber in Sacramento Ca.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
59muskeg,

I'm also looking for some track belting, and not looking to break the bank in the process. However I do not want to punch out all the holes and I'm also looking for high quality belting.

Could you share with us the name of the supplier(s) who quoted that price.

Thanks
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well, I just called Dunham and said I was looking for belting for a Sno Cat. I was transferred to a salesman naked Mike who said "We cannot do those".

I wonder how you got a different answer?
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
59muskeg,

However I do not want to punch out all the holes .

Punching the holes is easy ! I just purchased the hollow point punch in the right size . It took longer to lay out the hole diagram with a marking pencil then it took to punch the holes . You could do them all in one day.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Punching the holes is easy ! I just purchased the hollow point punch in the right size . It took longer to lay out the hole diagram with a marking pencil then it took to punch the holes . You could do them all in one day.

For a 1600 series Tucker, here's the math on the holes: 31 grouser bars per track/carrier held on by 6 bolts and two studs per grouser (8 holes) =248 holes per track/carrier x four carriers = 992 holes.

No Thanks.
 

59muskeg

Member
Blackfoot I will call on monday,I had 3 0r 4 conversations with the guy. I did not call saying i was looking for snow cat belting. I told them what paremeters i was looking for in a belt and he came up with belting,priced with and without holes. The suppliers that provide belting for places like Falline have notations rite on their computer not to give out any information,I know this for a fact.
 

Thiokol2track

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
heres a few i use. www.flnmar.com and www.troybelting.com . I made a template out of 1/8" steel 8 inches wide ,to make sure it stays square on the belt, and drilled holes large enough for my cutter to pass thru. The cutter i made out of stainless tubing ,and notch the side so the plugs can fall out. sharpen the end and use a countersink to sharpen the inside. (repeat about once per belt) You can control the hole size by how much you sharpen the tubing, either on the inside or outside. The cutter works better as it warms up. Was doing an 8 inch belt 24' in about 45 minutes. Hope this is of some help.

also drilling was done on plywood as to not dull the cutter as quickly.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thiokol2track,

Perhaps it would be worth it to make a template and do the punching myself. I was picturing several days spent punching.

I may have "screwed the pooch" by saying I was looking for belting for a Sno Cat. My understanding is that there are many different types of belting, some of which don't really work well in our application.

If I'm trying to purchase Sno Cat belting without saying "Sno Cat" what exactly do I say?
 

snowbird

New member
Thanks for the information regarding belting material and how to punch holes. My belting is weather-checked and likely pretty old, so right now that's my main concern of being stranded out in the "boonies". I'm not sure how to judge whether to replace it.
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
Well if it is cracking , it is just a matter of time before it starts tearing . I would start searching for a good replacment belting and have it ready when your old belting finally gives in to age .:smile:
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
I do not know if its cheap or not ,but my flexco fasteners were under a $100 .
 

uppercanada

New member
For what it is worth: A friend of mine runs a J5 (in rough bush) and he swears the best belt material he has come accross is used in rock crusher setups. I seen the used material he gets from a local company that refurbs crushers and it looked tough yet pliable. He machined up a hollow point bit to fit in a pneumatic punch and he cut really clean holes in the belting. His advantage is he has access to all the expensive tooling at work to get this done :-( .............

Don't forget to cotterize!
 

Thiokol2track

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
Thiokol2track,

Perhaps it would be worth it to make a template and do the punching myself. I was picturing several days spent punching.

I may have "screwed the pooch" by saying I was looking for belting for a Sno Cat. My understanding is that there are many different types of belting, some of which don't really work well in our application.

If I'm trying to purchase Sno Cat belting without saying "Sno Cat" what exactly do I say?

blackfoot . I would say definitely worth the effort to drill "or punch" yourself. The cutter works very well and is not as time consuming as one might think.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I had to order some parts from Tucker and brought up the subject of track belting...

A new 1600 series belt from Tucker is $225.00. I asked if they would sell the raw belting (unpunched) and they said no. I was told they use Goodyear belting.

I called Goodyear corporate and spoke to several different people. As they don't sell to the end user, but through distributors, they referred me to their rep in the SLC area. I haven't called him yet. They did say that they have been selling some 1/2" thick belting for a snow groomer application. My Tucker belts are 5/16" thick and I'm quite sure they are original.

Just doing some math; there are 31 grousers spaced 6 1/16" apart so each belt is 32 x 6 1/16 = 194 inches x 16 belts = 3,104 inches = 259 feet. I thought I would order 300 feet and have a couple of spare belts. That's going to be heavy!
 

59muskeg

Member
Qualities to look for in a replacement snow cat belt. 1.The fabric that the plys are made of should be a combination of nylon and polyester. 2. The overall strech factor of a new belt should be less than 2% over the life of the belting material.The pounds per square inch rating vary with the amount of plys used and the rating for each individual ply.For example a 2 ply 220 belt is comprised of 2 layers of 110 lb fabric. These days the fabric comes in many ratings, 110,200,300lb etc. The overall strength of the belt is not always determined by how many plys it has. You could have a 900lb belt with only 3 plys or a 4 ply belt with only 440 lbs rating. 3. The flexibility of the belt is very important,this takes into account what the minimum pully or idler

diameter that the specfic belt requires,also very important is the operating temperature rating of the belt. Many conveyor belts are not designed to work in temps below 0 to -25 degrees. Belt top coat and bottom coat also play a role. Conveyor belting often has a thick top coat such as 1/4 inch and 1/8 on the bottom.Too much rubber compound between the belt and the bolting surface of the cleat can cause lateral and horizontal excess movement causing bolts to loosen and possible failure. These are just some things to keep in mind when trying to substitute a conveyor belt for your tracks. I know why we do this,its simply the high cost of replacement belting!!! I am in the process of working with a belting company to come up with a belt that will work,but at working mans prices! They are actually having their lab diesect different oem thiokol belting. When they are done they will know exactely what the rubber compounds are,strength rating,and type and weave of the plys. They currently have belting that is strong and rated at temps in excess of minus 50. Dont forget alot of the belting available today has very high ratings which makes it more expensive. The reason for this is todays groomers weigh in excess of 12000lbs and are running 350hp plus diesels. A 4000lb spryte with a 12ohp gas engine does not need those ratings. I will post my findings on what i call the working mans belt as soon as i get them.
 

J5 Bombardier

Well-known member
When I changed the belts on my J5 a couple of years ago I used 4 ply, it would be nice to find a economical supply of 5 ply in Canada for my Muskeg.
J5 Bombardier
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I called the Goodyear rep in SLC and he referred me to a fellow who was the supplier of belting to Thiokol/LMC/DMC.

He had a remnant piece that was 5" wide and 247 feet long. I need 4 1/2" wide and he couldn't slit the belt down to 4 1/2". I didn't ask about price, but it is a four ply belt.

I called the Goodyear rep back. He told me there basically is no such thing as "track belting" for snow cats, but rather all of it is conveyor belting of some sort. He also said there are two main types of conveyor belting, belting for use below ground in mines which is built for fire retardency (and without concerns about uv damage), and above ground belting which is designed to withstand uv damage.

Still looking for belting...

59 Muskeg,

I'm looking forward to your results.
 

59muskeg

Member
This is my finding so far. I have come up with a source for belting. I would like to know how many may have an intrest in getting some of this belting. The belt is rated to -60 below zero, it is very flexible,uv resistant,3ply 110 pound fabric making it a 330 belt. For example i can get one of these belts that is 23foot 6inches long by 8inches wide for about 180.00 a belt. I can also get a super strong single ply 440 belt or 2 ply 800 belt for more money,Iam waiting on the price for this one. I have actually sent a sample of the original thiokol 3ply belting to the maker to duplicate the same charactistics. Let me know if you have any intrest, THIS IS UNPUNCHED BELTING SLIT TO WITH. Thankyou Doug
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Doug,

I'm interested in belting 4 1/2" wide and roughly 300' long (enough for 18 track belts (2 spares)).

Is the belt pricing based upon surface area of the belt?

For example: 23' 6" x 8" = 2,256 sq in. One of my Tucker belts would be roughly 194 inches long and 4 1/2" wide, which is 873 square inches. 873/2,256 = 38.7%. 38.7% of $180.00 would be $69.65 a belt. Depending how bad the freight was, I'd be VERY interested in ordering belting at that pricing!
 
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59muskeg

Member
Blackfoot As soon as i have the details worked out I will let you know. Most likely I will get the belting in quanity rolls,as to keep the price down. The belting will be pre slit to width. I am trying to find out how many may be interested in this, and what widths and quanity they would want. As soon as i get all the details ironed out I will post it,thankyou Doug
 

59muskeg

Member
Just a little more info too add, the belts that i am working on have less than a 1.7% strech factor,which is an important factor. Most conveyor belting is generally rated at a 10% or less strech factor. Conveyor belting is generally not driven by a cogged sproket,thus there isnt any concern about things like the proper timing of grouser engagement to the sproket teeth,as this timing can change with too much belt strech causing track jumping and premature sproket wear.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I got a call from a belt supplier (who the Goodyear Rep had contacted on my behalf).

He does quite a bit of conveyor stuff and confessed ignorance on snow cat belting. I read him 59 Muskegs posts about belting issues and desired belt specs.

Very nice guy, said he'd quote anything, if I gave him the specs...
'
He did quote three ply, 330 PIW belting. The outside cover is 3/16", the inside cover is 1/16, 4 1/2" wide: $3.00 a foot That struck me as a great buy, IF (and only if) it's "the right stuff". He also quoted punching to my specs at $50.00 per belt.

This is "imported belting". He said he could get Goodyear brand imported belt for more money and "made in USA Goodyear belt" for considerably more money.
 
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59muskeg

Member
It sounds like a good buy, but be very careful about the rest of the perameters of the belt. You want a pyle that is constructed out of polyester/nylon, the type of the pile weave is very important for strength and resisting cutting and ripping, What is the minimum safe operating temperature of the belt,the rubber compounds used on the carcus will determine this? what is the minimum pulley or wheel size for the belt to go around? I will have results from the company i am working with tomorro. The belting we have come up with is a superstrong weave, 1 ply 440 piw, 2 ply 800piw, it is an artic belting rated down to -60, ONE VERY IMPORTANT FACT I LEFT OUT,WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM STRECH FACTOR OF THE BELT? the one we are working with is less than 1.7% over the total life of the belt. most conveyor belting will strech atleast 10%. More info to come tomorro, Hopefully i will have a better belt available at almost half of the prices out there. The company i am working with is very interested in supplying these belts,they have done alot of research,even breaking down belt samples i have sent them.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
In my last post I mentioned I had read the salesman your post about belt characteristics. I had earlier told him the diameter of the Tucker bogey wheels (13").

His belting is rated for -35 and does use a polyester/ nylon fabric. We discussed lower temperature belting and he had some they could order which was about -60, but it had a gum rubber cover which he said would be very bad for my/our application.

He also told me "industry standard" for belt stretch is 2-5%. When I mentioned your 1.7% belting, he said he had heard heard of it.

I look forward to your upcoming post with details and pricing.
 

59muskeg

Member
Blackfoot, I dont want to sound like a know it all,the only way i got all this information is by researching the belts and lots of information from engeneers,otherwise all i could tell anyone is that belting is black and holds the tracks together.one of the reasons i am so careful about belt strech is i had a friend at a ski area use some belting,he said they ran it for 2 wks,then they had to remove the tracks,the belt streched so much it chewed up two new drive sprokets.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Doug,

I appreciate your research greatly. I'm pretty clueless about the belting and have benefitted greatly from your various posts. My impression is that Fall Line, Okners, etc have a pretty significant mark up (100%?) on their belts. I also don't think their belting is anything really special.

While I want to save on belting cost, I don't want to go through what your ski area friend did.
 
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