AWD mid-size sedan or small SUV recommendations

bczoom · Nov 11, 2015

Front wheel drive isn't enough in the winter with the hills, ice and snow we get.

Need a commuter vehicle for the Mrs. with AWD. A sedan about the size of an Accord/Camry or small SUV is what I'm looking for. Price range is $10-15K so we're obviously looking at something used.

Scanning through Craigslist to get an idea, below is what I'm seeing (as well as some GMC's and a couple Ford)

Any thoughts about these brands/models? It is for the Mrs. so reliability and getting her around safely in the winter is key.

2008 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Limited
2009 Mercedes C300 Luxury 4 MATIC
2008 Toyota Rav4
2009 Honda CR-V
2008 Infiniti G35x awd
2009 BMW 328XI

Doc · Nov 11, 2015

There is not a bad option in that list. I didn't know the BMW 328i or the Infinity were AWD. Can' to wrong with the Honda or Toyota. I've never owned a Subaru but those I know who have usually buy a 2nd and 3rd which is a very good sign. Since these are all used you about have to run them down and do a carfax on each and have a mechanic look over whatever you decide on before putting the cash down.

Av8r3400 · Nov 11, 2015

I work on cars for a living. Of the cars listed, one eclipses all the others in terms of build, design and engineering quality. The C300.

The Subaru and Infinity are on equal ground depending on how their features fit your needs.

The Honda and Toyota are reliable and trustworthy but they are both tinny and cheap.

The BMW would be at the bottom of the list, IMO, unless you have a good dealer / maintenance support. They are innovative and fine cars but can be maintenance intensive to own.

bczoom · Nov 12, 2015

Av8r3400 said:
I work on cars for a living. Of the cars listed, one eclipses all the others in terms of build, design and engineering quality. The C300.

How's the maintenance costs? I bought a new ML-320 when they first came out and dealer maintenance was costing over $1000 per year. I quit doing that and had my local mechanic maintain it.

Melensdad · Nov 12, 2015

Av8r3400 said:
I work on cars for a living. Of the cars listed, one eclipses all the others in terms of build, design and engineering quality. The C300.

The Subaru and Infinity are on equal ground depending on how their features fit your needs.

The Honda and Toyota are reliable and trustworthy but they are both tinny and cheap.

The BMW would be at the bottom of the list, IMO, unless you have a good dealer / maintenance support. They are innovative and fine cars but can be maintenance intensive to own.

The BMW 'x' drive system seems to be panned by many people as an inferior system, probably because it is heavily rear wheel drive weighted. For snow use I'd put the BMW on the bottom of the list for that reason alone.

Subaru Legacy sedan is pretty nice, had a friend who had one. Seemed to like it. But got rid of it after a few years. I played around with it and found it missed some luxury features that were standard in my daughter's VW Jetta. That surprised me. But it was a nice roomy mid-size sedan.

I think my choice would be the MB with 4Matic. I know two guys who own E350 4Matic sedans and say they are good in the snow.

Av8r3400 · Nov 12, 2015

bczoom said:
How's the maintenance costs? I bought a new ML-320 when they first came out and dealer maintenance was costing over $1000 per year. I quit doing that and had my local mechanic maintain it.

On a new vehicle, I'm sure the dealer would be a premium for cost on maintenance. If you have an "independent" service provider that is competent to maintain an older MB vehicle, I don't believe these to be much more than any other car.

Parts are more expensive than a Ford or Chevy, yes. However, if you look at quality of the parts, they are needed less frequently. (From my experience) The "european" philosophy is often to do certain repairs on a scheduled basis. Some of these schedules can be stretched and some can not. A competent shop can help with this aspect.

bczoom · Nov 12, 2015

I know it's not an "apples to apples" comparison since the luxury vehicles don't qualify but it caught my attention. In the top-10 list for AWD under $25K, Subaru took the top 5 slots.
www.kbb.com/car-reviews-and-news/top-10/best-all-wheel-drive-cars-suvs-under-25000-2015/2000011746/
A friend just rolled 250,000 on his Subaru and it's still running strong.

What I need to work out with the wife is how she plans on using her vehicles. Would this one be a bad-weather vehicle only or would she make it her daily driver and get rid of what she's driving now (Accord EX-L). If it's to replace the Accord we would obviously step up the amenities as well as price range. We already have 5 vehicles so I hope she goes the replacement route.

waybomb · Nov 12, 2015

Benz. Period.

k-dog · Nov 12, 2015

My uncle loves his Subaru. He just traded his old one in on a brand new one. He drives it quite a bit near Morgantown, WV on back roads and on back in less populated areas in fairly deep snow and hasn't had any problems. I was tempted to buy his old one but he traded it off before I had a chance to make an offer.
He took it back to his cabin that is off the beaten path in the winter and had no issues. For a commuter vehicle that is great in the snow, its tough to beat for the price.
I forgot to mention that he lives in Baltimore, MD but spends about every weekend near Morgantown, WV and gets pretty good mileage on the trip too.

bczoom · Nov 12, 2015

waybomb said:
Benz. Period.

How did I know you were going to say that. :whistling:

k-dog said:
My uncle loves his Subaru. He just traded his old one in on a brand new one. He drives it quite a bit near Morgantown, WV on back roads and on back in less populated areas in fairly deep snow and hasn't had any problems.

We're not far from Morgantown and our terrain is similar.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Nov 12, 2015

Around here the granola flakes love them some Subaru. However, they are also the worst drivers - anyone in a Subaru or a Prius is guaranteed to be the one driving the speed limit (or under) in the fast lane.

When I researched them, the gas mileage on Subaru's was not that great.

Snowtrac Nome · Nov 12, 2015

here in Alaska subarus are highly respected other than an occasional timing belt or brake replacement the Subaru engine will run until the body falls off.

tiredretired · Nov 12, 2015

Subarus are the unofficial state car here for good reason. They are good in the snow. I have never owned one as I prefer a full framed vehicle to drive in the winter versus unibody type vehicles.

You really can't go wrong with any of those vehicles on that list. If you have the bucks go with the MB. If you are cheap like me, go with something a little more frugal.

The choice is really yours.

mtntopper · Nov 12, 2015

After looking at new SUV specs, our needs and dealers in the area we test drove the Honda CRV, Crosstour, Toyota Rav, Crosstrek, Ford SUV and Chevy/GMC equivalent models. We then drove 150 miles to look at Subaru. We test drove the Forester and then the Outback as the price was only about 1500 more than the Forester. We purchased the Outback as it was the most comfortable, best value and very well equipped car for the dollars in our car shopping. Subaru offers their highly rated "Eye Sight" safety option well worth the dollars. This is our first Subaru. I can see why Subaru owners are so loyal. Sales and service are first class along with a car that will last forever and not cost you an arm and leg to own. The resale is another value point of the Subaru which by percentage is higher than most other brands. The cost of purchasing a used Subaru will be higher than other brands but they are just worth it.

bczoom · Nov 13, 2015

The Mrs. and I spoke about this. I've only been looking on Craigslist to get a feel but it sounds like she's leaning towards the MB first, Subaru second.

Also expecting to trade in the Accord so I'll start checking dealers to see what they have so we can do a trade.

bczoom · Nov 13, 2015

Is a Cadillac CTS any good (in AWD)?

Are there any domestic AWD sedans that are worth taking a look?

JimVT · Nov 13, 2015

the wife bought a 2015 vw Tiguan it is the second largest model and she really enjoys it.
her last was a mercury mariner and is slightly smaller
I was busy in my pasture and she drove it out to see me . our pastures are not car friendly.
I have no idea if it is all wheel or not . I was the dealers demo.
jim

grizzer · Nov 13, 2015

Another source to buy is Hertz rentals They give the vehicle history & a 12K warranty. They used to have a lot but now seem to pull it for a rental & you can drive & buy.

Another brand is Mazda, not on your list but quality as strong as Toyota/Honda 185" class. CX-5 was their first product launched solo in 2013, no recalls (everybody has bad Takata bags)

The one I've been watching is the CX-3 AWD launched in Sept. 2015 so no used but is a 175" class crossover suv with AWD and 30 mpg. Zoom Zoom

Subaru may be a quality commuter but nobody calls it fun to drive.

Av8r3400 · Nov 13, 2015

bczoom said:
Are there any domestic AWD sedans that are worth taking a look?

Imo, no.

k-dog · Nov 13, 2015

Most of the other AWD sedans don't have the ground clearance which is no good unless PA does better plowing all the roads than WV. When my wife got her Explorer, I was looking at the Subaru as well and was surprised it had almost same ground clearance as the Explorer. The wife wanted 7 seats though so the Explorer won out.

My uncle with the Subaru was talking about the lane sensor thing on it. He says it helps keep him in his lane when driving and looking around for deer. :biggrin:

bczoom · Nov 14, 2015

Well, went and kicked tires today and took a few for test drives.

Lexus still has the suspension that's too soft making the ride sloppy. We passed on them.

Subaru Crosstrek (pic below) came close but we couldn't make the deal. It's also way under-powered for my taste.

Acura TL AWD. Nice but didn't take it for a drive today and no sales guy to open it up so we drove away.

Looked at the Subaru Legacy and Outback. Nice. I like the Outback better. Age and a bum hip are making it hard for me to climb into low sitting sedans. Too many bells and whistles on the new ones for me but that seems to be the trend. I'll take buttons over touch screen for radio and such any day.

Got to the Mercedes dealer a little to late. We were out for too long in crappy weather and the ones we wanted to look at were at an off-site location so they would have to go get them and I just didn't want to wait. Will look at another day. As it's been for years dealing with them (we've bought at least 3 vehicles from them in the past), they're still the best dealership for customer experience. Besides the phenomenal staff, as soon as you walk in, it's off to the table with Starbucks coffee and treats. They gave us a very nice stainless travel mug just for stopping in. Kudos to Bobby Rahal Mercedes!

Will head out again but I think the Mrs. has narrowed it down to MB, Subaru or Acura.

EastTexFrank · Nov 14, 2015

bczoom said:
1) Age and a bum hip are making it hard for me to climb into low sitting sedans.

2) Too many bells and whistles on the new ones for me but that seems to be the trend. I'll take buttons over touch screen for radio and such any day.

1) I agree and add that I really don't want to be climbing up into one either.

2) I bought a new Cadillac SRX a couple of weeks ago (for various reasons) and I know what modern day jet fighter pilots are talking about when they say they suffer from information overload. Hellfire!!! The thing buzzes, talks to you, the driver's seat vibrates, there's a heads up display on the windshield and bells go off all over the place. It's reached the point where when a bell chimes you don't know what the f*** it's trying to tell you.

Yesteryear was a much simpler time as far as vehicles go.

waybomb · Nov 28, 2015

Verdict?

bczoom · Nov 30, 2015

Shopping paused for a couple weeks. I was down with pneumonia 2 weeks ago and then we were on vacation last week.

Right now but always subject to change it looks like she's leaning toward a Subaru Legacy or Outback.

Doc · Nov 30, 2015

EastTexFrank said:
1) I agree and add that I really don't want to be climbing up into one either.

2) I bought a new Cadillac SRX a couple of weeks ago (for various reasons) and I know what modern day jet fighter pilots are talking about when they say they suffer from information overload. Hellfire!!! The thing buzzes, talks to you, the driver's seat vibrates, there's a heads up display on the windshield and bells go off all over the place. It's reached the point where when a bell chimes you don't know what the f*** it's trying to tell you.

Yesteryear was a much simpler time as far as vehicles go.

To true, but I'll guess after some time with it you will get used to all those bells and whistles and miss them if they are not on whatever else you might be driving.

I had a rented Yukon a few weeks ago and it had the vibration in the seat when a vehicle was in your blind spot on the interestate plus it vibrated when backing up if you were close to something. Annoying at first but you sure can get used to all the extras. I really liked the push button start and remote start ...and the remote tailgate etc etc.

tiredretired · Nov 30, 2015

Doc said:
To true, but I'll guess after some time with it you will get used to all those bells and whistles and miss them if they are not on whatever else you might be driving.

I had a rented Yukon a few weeks ago and it had the vibration in the seat when a vehicle was in your blind spot on the interestate plus it vibrated when backing up if you were close to something. Annoying at first but you sure can get used to all the extras. I really liked the push button start and remote start ...and the remote tailgate etc etc.

I'll second that emotion. When I was younger I thought the worst thing that could ever happen to a vehicle was when they started computerizing them. Much prefering my old school 67 Rambler American.

Now? There's no way I would ever drive that shit box again. :yum:

My favorites are that blind spot warning and back up camera I have on the Sonata. God love them both. :biggrin:

AWD mid-size sedan or small SUV recommendations

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