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Thinking of buying a Toyota Avalon Hybrid sedan???

Melensdad

Melensdad

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OK, I know, Japanese cars have no soul.

But I can't find a similar size car, with similar features, that is nearly as good a value in terms of luxury, economy, cost of ownership, etc.

The Ford Taurus is a nightmare to drive, I know, I've had the displeasure of driving one of those for a long weekend and could not wait to give it back to the rental agency. It was loaded up with all sorts of goodies, but had miserable drivability and was totally non-intuitive in the design of the controls.

The Lincoln MK/Z is much smaller (interior) than the Avalon, costs a bit more. The Lincoln MK/S is an upgraded Taurus, I have no desire to own a MK/S.

I won't buy a GM car. PERIOD.

NOT a fan of the Fiat/Chrysler 300.

The Lexus ES is a clone of the Toyota Avalon, and the hybrid version uses the identical drivetrain. The Lexus has sheet metal that makes it more generic looking. Seats in the Lexus are a bit nicer, dash is slightly nicer looking. But I don't see the Lexus ES as worth the added cost for what amounts to be a badge on the front of the car with an "L" to differentiate it from the Toyota.

Jaguar, Audi and MB all offer similar size vehicles, with similar features, for $25,000 more money and lower reliability and higher repair costs.

FWIW, this car would be for the lovely Mrs_B.

Am I missing something? Other than the fact that its not a 'fun' to drive sport sedan with a German engineered soul?
 

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waybomb

waybomb

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Not missing a thing. I'd be bored to death. And Christ is that front end ugly!
But utility, yup, go for it.
Don't hang your hat on legacy quality; lately it has been piss-poor.
 
Doc

Doc

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I've had a toyota solara for the past 10 years and just getting ready to buy something else. I can't agree with no soul or not fun to drive. This has been the best car ever for me as far as repairs needed during ownership. So, now I want a 4 door since we have gandkids and have to deal with car seats. Camary is a bit small, so I was also considering Avalon.
I do not understand how hybrids work but wonder if they would be as trouble free as their conventional counterparts. Mileage between a 6 cyl Avalon and the hybrid is rated at 40 mpg city & 39mpg highway driving, conventional is rated at 21 city and 31 highway.
The cost difference is not that much, some hybrids are less than their conventional counterparts. I'm more concerned about pickup and reliability overall.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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I've had some concerns about the hybrid drive in the past, but have a friend with a Prius and he has allayed my fears as his has been trouble free. The sheer number of Prius's on the road, as well as they hybrid Camry, and for the past few years the Ford's with Hybrids has pretty much proven that the technology is pretty sound.

As for fuel costs. Assume simple numbers, 10,000 miles per year. Assume $3 per gallon. Assume 25mpg for the gas engine. Assume 35mpg for the hybrid.

400 gallons @ 25mpg @ $3.50 per gallon = $1400.00 to drive 10,000
286 gallons @ 35mpg @ $3.50 per gallon = $1001.00 to drive 10,000

$400 savings per 10,000 miles.

Avalon Limited Model = $40,855.00
Avalon Hybrid Limited Model = $42,605.00 ($1750 premium cost)
prices per Toyota's website​

Assume 5 years of driving at 14,000 miles per year - I'm outside of town so we have to drive everywhere - equals 70,000 miles in 5 years.

Gas Engine Avalon fuel costs = $7,000.00
Hybrid Engine Avalon fuel costs = $5005.00

Cost savings with Hybrid = $245.00 over 70,000 miles. So not a huge advantage to the hybrid, but if you keep a car over 70,000 miles then the cost savings build up each year. If fuel costs go up, then the savings go up faster. If fuel costs drop, then savings drop. I tend to keep cars for 125,000 to 150,000 miles.
 
Melensdad

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I should point out that with the fuel economy numbers the Avalon GAS gets an EPA claimed 21/city and 31/hwy. I presumed 25mpg for the average. That presumes that the EPA claimed numbers are CORRECT.

The Avalon Hybrid gets an EPA claimed 40/city and 39/hwy. I presumed 35mpg for the average. That presumes the EPA claimed numbers are INFLATED.

So I clearly understated the cost savings of the Hybrid. To be fair, if the EPA numbers are used, we should assume 39mpg average, so for 10,000 miles @ gas at $3.50, the cost would be $899.50, or another $100 lower in cost than the gas version.

The five year cost savings, assuming EPA claims, and my projected 70,000 miles of driving, should be roughly $945.00.
 
Doc

Doc

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Thanks Bob. So, if I understand the numbers, if you drove the car 140k miles you would break even for the extra 2k paid for the hybrid vehicle.
 
Melensdad

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Doc said:
Thanks Bob. So, if I understand the numbers, if you drove the car 140k miles you would break even for the extra 2k paid for the hybrid vehicle.
Click to expand...

No, you would break even at about 40,000 miles.

You would be money ahead after that point.

You save about $500 per 10,000 in fuel costs AT THE EPA CLAIMED numbers if you drive the Hybrid.
 
Doc

Doc

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Something to consider. I wonder how the acceleration would be? Have you driven one yet Bob?
 
Melensdad

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Doc said:
Something to consider. I wonder how the acceleration would be? Have you driven one yet Bob?
Click to expand...

Not yet. One of my daughter's friend's fathers has one, he loves it.
 
Snowtrac Nome

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one thing to remember about these hybrids is they get good mileage and with dynamic braking I will guess you may double your service interval on brakes . how many of you all bout have gotten 10 years of life out of your battery's, the battery's for these car's won't be cheep.
 
FrancSevin

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Melensdad said:
No, you would break even at about 40,000 miles.

You would be money ahead after that point.

You save about $500 per 10,000 in fuel costs AT THE EPA CLAIMED numbers if you drive the Hybrid.
Click to expand...
No you wouldn't. You have not included the depreciation of the battery. We still don't know the life spans of those puppies.

Get Hyundai Sonata. Roomy, better looks, quality and warranties. And fuel consumption is exceptable at 35 MPG
images_moresizes3_IE6CompatiablePNG24.png
adult_content_flag3_IE6CompatiablePNG24.png

 
Doc

Doc

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Reuben Goldberg said:
Has anyone laid hands on that new Hyundai X900? Looks awful cushy with 420 HP.
Click to expand...
With 420hp I went looking for the x900 but all I could find was a Hyundai X900 android tablet. How bout a pic of the one you are talking bout.
 
Melensdad

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FrancSevin said:
No you wouldn't. You have not included the depreciation of the battery. We still don't know the life spans of those puppies.

Get Hyundai Sonata. . .
Click to expand...

We know, based on experience with both Toyota and Ford, that the hybrid batteries last from roughly 250,00 to 400,000 miles. I typically get rid of cars at just under 150,000 miles. So the battery issue is non-existent for me.

As for the Sonata, its too small.




Doc said:
With 420hp I went looking for the x900 but all I could find was a Hyundai X900 android tablet. How bout a pic of the one you are talking bout.
Click to expand...

Its a KIA not a Hyundai. LINKY => http://www.caranddriver.com/kia/k900
 
Doc

Doc

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Thanks Bob. 420hp, rear wheel drive in that size car. :wow: But I'm not interested in an Asian muscle car.
I've been very happy with Toyota dependability and resale value. I'll give the Avalon a serious look, and be very interested in Bob's findings as you shop and buy a vehicle, Avalon or not.
 
BigAl

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I can't speak for the hybred part but the Toyota Avalon limited edition was one of the best cars I ever owned .
 
R

rlk

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I have a 2011 Toyota Avalon Limited and consistently get 29 - 30 mpg. This is in town and highway driving.

On a trip from Ft. Lauderdale to NC, driving on I-95 at 75+ mph, the mpg was 31.

I'm very satisfied with the Avalon.

Bob
 
Dargo

Dargo

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Out of my "fleet" of vehicles, one brand that is missing is Toyota. I'm well aware that my experience can not possibly be the 'average' experience for a Toyota owner, or they would be out of business. Still, the fact remains that of the, literally, hundreds of cars and trucks I've purchased in my life, only two were bought back by the factory under the "Lemon Law", and both were Toyota Avalons. :doh:

One was their first year out. Yeah, I know, never buy the first model year of a car. However, I was promised that the Avalon was only a 'stretch' version of the Camry, which had received great reviews for many years. So I ordered one. In the first year of ownership, it was at the Toyota dealer just over 7 months of the time! It wasn't just one thing that broke, it was everything. Literally, at one point the left rear wheel fell off! The list of what all is too long to list and I can't even recall all of it.

Anyway, I felt Toyota did the right thing after all the problems and bought the Avalon back. They then kept peppering me about buying another 'second generation' of the Avalon with tons of improvements and fixes and they'd give me a special discount etc., etc. So, stupidly, I bought another new one. Same freaking thing! This time I got Toyota to buy it back in far less than a year when the dealership literally said they can't fix everything that is wrong with the car. So, needless to say, I've never even remotely considered any Toyota in the last 20 years. Hopefully, if you buy one, your experience with Toyota vehicles will be different than mine. As I mentioned, my experience cannot be the norm for them or they'd be out of business.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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Well the lovely Mrs_Bob is now backing off on any car. Apparently she will be satisfied if I just get the heater fan working in her car.

If it was for me I'd be looking at a MB CLS 4Motion or a Audi A7 Quattro. Both would probably be expensive to maintain, but both are so beautiful they are sex on wheels.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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A CLS 55 or 63 are soooooo sexy.
The prettiest modern day cars Benz has made.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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waybomb said:
A CLS 55 or 63 are soooooo sexy.
The prettiest modern day cars Benz has made.
Click to expand...

Yup, when they redesigned the sheetmetal on the CLS in 2012 it became the best looking MB produced, and possibly the best looking car produced. Prior to 2012 it was an interesting, but not beautiful car.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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Just got R&T. The NEW E250 Bluetec gets better mileage than a Prius.

STORY =>>> http://www.roadandtrack.com/feature...fuel-efficient-car-in-america-is-a-luxury-car

They did a 300 mile real world driving test with both cars driving the exact same roads at the same time. The Benz weighs way more than that POS Prius, gets better gas mileage accelerates faster, corners better, brakes better, is quieter, drives like a Benz and outperforms that Toy. Yes, it costs 27k more, but it's a Benz. A Benz will last at least twice as long as that TOY ever will.

I am guessing the Benz has ABC, BAS, ESP, ABS, thermostst controlled interior, rain sensing wipers, 17 way power seats with 4 memory settings which would include stearing wheel settings, heated seats, maybe even massage and ventilated seats, dimming mirrors, xenon lamps, power everything, gobs of noise insulation and thick glass, defrost rear window, premium audio, real leather surfaces, real wood trim, high pressure head lamp washers, and if it gets in accident, the doors still open, plus, rescuers do not have to be concerned with cutting through high current wires in the pillars.

Go ahead, buy a Prius! Not! Toyota has been had by a car 5 times as nice.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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waybomb said:
. . .
I am guessing the Benz has ABC, BAS, ESP, ABS, thermostst controlled interior, rain sensing wipers, 17 way power seats with 4 memory settings which would include stearing wheel settings, heated seats, maybe even massage and ventilated seats, dimming mirrors, xenon lamps, power everything, gobs of noise insulation and thick glass, defrost rear window, premium audio, real leather surfaces, real wood trim, high pressure head lamp washers. . .
Click to expand...
The E-Class MB cars come with VINYL interiors, leather is an OPTION. I did not see massage as an option, it might be, maybe its part of the ventilated seat option? Ventilated seats are an OPTION that is above and beyond the leather option. Yes, they are very nice, interiors are not as nice as a BMW, but very nice. And expensive too. I did a build & price of the E250 a while back, without all the options the cost came up to about $64,000 the way I configured it. Not sure what R&T used for their "cost as driven" price, but I'm curious.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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It was about 65k. I guessed on the options, but a hell of a lot nicer car than a Prius with better fuel mileage, and not an environmental disaster when its usefullness comes to an end.
 
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