• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Muskeg steering ram behavior and band adjustment

samwe

Member
I am working on my '78 Muskeg carrier and am curious about the behavior of the steering rams.
This has the dual setup where the rams have two sides, running off the power steering pump, the other side uses car brake master cylinders.

When I start the engine, the power side activates some, as if is taking up slack in the linkages. This doesn't leave much travel...

I am wondering if this is normal. If not, does anyone have any ideas on what is wrong?
If it is normal, then I need to proceed to adjusting the bands correctly. I know they should not be too tight, so how do I know when to stop turning the nut!

Thanks.
 

pixie

Well-known member
SUPER Site Supporter
I only have hydraulic on mine. I don't know why it would 'take up slack' when you start the engine. Is there much 'slack' ?

Adjusting the bands is hit or miss unless the tracks are off. Best advice I have is to start with a long flat field and move ahead to try each adjustment. Tighten one side till you get a little drag, back it off. Tighten the other side then back it off. Hopefully, they will be about the same place on the bolts.
 

samwe

Member
As soon as the system pressurizes the cylinders extend a few inches, maybe about 1/2 of the total travel.
I took apart the steering control valve and see that when the levers in the neutral position, there are only 6 3/32" holes for fluid to flow through in each piston.
I am going to do two things, replace the flow control valve in my pump to decrease the flow, and experiment with tightening the tracks.

My biggest concern is that I am dragging the brakes while going straight. I think doing what you said can help me not only adjust them, but make sure that is not happening.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
what you need is a hydraulic diagram on my 2100 there is a pressure regulator drops hydraulic pressure in the steering circuit to about 90 psi it runs a continuous flow through a full loop when you pull on a steering valve it closes a pintle on the return side to pressurize a steering cylinder. I would think you have the same it may be that your fluid is thick and not flowing through the control valves freely.
 

samwe

Member
Yeah, the steering on this works by closing off the return, line same as your 2100 it seems. I have nothing dropping the pressure though....
My GM power steering pump is probably 3.5GPM at 1200 PSI from what I am reading online. What would a stock Muskeg be running?

The picture below shows where things are when you are not pulling a lever. All fluid returning must go through the 12 3/32" holes in the two pistons. It seems to me that this is a restriction.
VqqAa0q.jpg


I am pretty sure my bands are too loose and the pump is moving enough fluid that those pistons don't let enough fluid by.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
sorry I'm not familiar with your muskeg I would have to think 1200 psi would be a bit hard on the bands and pins. I know that kind of pressure will kill the oc bands I woul how ever think there is some thing leaking by in that valve I had to rebuild one of mine for a leak now when the oil is cold I get a bit of drag on the left side once the oil warms up it works just fine.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
also Thiokol takes their hydraulic pressure off the main hydraulic circuit and runs it through a regulator to step it down on your saganaw pump the pressure relief is inside the outlet port on the pump where the high pressure line comes out you can get all kinds of relief valves to adjust the pressure. I would look at a manual see what you are supposed to have some one may have swapped a pump not knowing you needed a lower pressure relief valve in it. also look for restrictions in the return line some ties you can have a flapper in the hose partially blocking a line
 

samwe

Member
I have a GM 4.2 Inline 6 from a 2004 Trailblazer and we are using thy pump that came with that. So I know we don't have the stock pump!
I have a flow reducer and a pressure reducer on order. I can get it as low as 700 PSI.

Also, I just remembered we did put a Magnafine filter on the return line! I can test removing that while waiting on the other parts.
 

J5 Bombardier

Well-known member
Boggie listed pressures in the restoration forum for muskegs and nodwells .I'm running 450-475 psi on my muskeg . As my system is not factory ( but same hyd layout ) it has external springs that are pretty strong in order to keep the rams retracted . J5 Bombardier
 

samwe

Member
Your post really helped to confirm the direction I was thinking I need to go. I was also able to find Boggies post.
Starting out with the right output from the pump makes a lot of sense!
 

samwe

Member
I bought a flow reducer and a pressure reduction kit for the PS pump. I used some tubing to replace the stack of washers in the pressure kit to reduce it even more.
I also installed some springs on the rams.
The rams no longer extend while not steering, and my overheating issues are all gone.
Looking forward to our moose hunting trip starting this weekend.
 

samwe

Member
It ran pretty good but is still overheating.
I am going to look for lower gears. I understand some had 5.83 gears. I think that and a bigger trans cooler should do it.
We also need to find where the oil is getting into the diff at. We drained the oil into a bucket we found and used an old coffee can we also found and boiled 1/2 gallon at a time to get the water out during the times we were in camp...
I have a few pics that I will post in another thread in the appropriate sub-forum.
 

J5 Bombardier

Well-known member
In the restoration forum , check for my restoration /fab thread "Muskeg Hull rebuild ", some of the steering system setup is visible. I may have a few other pics I can dig up.
J5 Bombardier
 
Top