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Old 08-09-2019, 09:06 AM
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Default Whats a Farmer to do....

Whats a Farmer to do now that China has taken American soybeans and corn off their menu. I thought it was foolish this year to worry about planting soybeans with every storage facility in the country overflowing with the damn things.

Are they expecting the taxpayers to pay to roll the harvest back into the earth instead of harvesting them? Or are they going to gather to force new bio-diesel laws that will force their products though our tailpipes at our own expense of higher priced fuel.

Or is it possible that they convert their land use to raising a product that will have real stand alone market value without government subsidies as the free market should demand.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Originally Posted by Bamby View Post
Whats a Farmer to do now that China has taken American soybeans and corn off their menu. I thought it was foolish this year to worry about planting soybeans with every storage facility in the country overflowing with the damn things.

Are they expecting the taxpayers to pay to roll the harvest back into the earth instead of harvesting them? Or are they going to gather to force new bio-diesel laws that will force their products though our tailpipes at our own expense of higher priced fuel.

Or is it possible that they convert their land use to raising a product that will have real stand alone market value without government subsidies as the free market should demand.
Biodiesel is a far better use of agriculture than corn based ethanol. . Easier on the land as well. But politics put corn first. Corn over biodiesel & corn over sugar cane ethanol. It is a prime example of why Washington DC should not run any industrial part of the economy.

That said, the tariffs are working to their purpose. Despite assurances from Joe Biden, China is not our friend. We are currently engaged in an economic war with that nation. A war we must win. And, as with any war hot or cold, there will be sacrifices.

As for soybeans, farmers do have options. Chose other crops or find other markets. Europe would use our beans if we stopped planting the GMO stuff. Sugar beets grow just about anywhere in the USA.
Biodegradable plastics is another such market and there is a great demand for research and development in those products. I know this as we are currently trying to enter the EU with such plastics packaging biodegradable single use paper spoons. They have mandated that all such single use plastics be biodegradable or compostable by 2023. With any luck, our little company will be amoung the first to make it happen..

Henry Ford pioneered plastics from soybeans many years ago. I see no reason why soybeans could not be part of the solution.

Finally, I would point out that 20 years ago China could not feed it's people. Today it exports food products to the USA, Russia and the EU. The lucrative soybean market in China for USA beans would not go on forever.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Years ago when I spent a short time in Ky, there was a move to get farmers away from tobacco.
There were billboards everywhere that showed pictures of Emus, saying it was an alternative to tobacco.

I thought to myself, how the hell do you smoke an Emu?

I wish there was an alternative to plastics.

I would guess about 90% of my garbage is plastic.

We try as hard as possible not to use the plastic bags from the store.
We take everything loose in the cart to the car, and put all the cold stuff into insulated bags.
But still, we end up with mountains of the stuff every week.

We tried driving the crap to town, and putting it in recycle bins, but the task proved larger than the both of us.

The time, and money wasted to do it makes in uneconomical.

I hate to say it, but the only way I can deal with the shit is to burn it.

I feel sorry for farmers, their mission is a nobel one, but like everything else, so many stand in their way to make it so much harder and costlier than it should be.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that we ship eggs to China, which then arrive as chickens ready to process, and have the meat shipped back to us.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Years ago when I spent a short time in Ky, there was a move to get farmers away from tobacco.
There were billboards everywhere that showed pictures of Emus, saying it was an alternative to tobacco.

I thought to myself, how the hell do you smoke an Emu?

I wish there was an alternative to plastics.

I would guess about 90% of my garbage is plastic.

We try as hard as possible not to use the plastic bags from the store.
We take everything loose in the cart to the car, and put all the cold stuff into insulated bags.
But still, we end up with mountains of the stuff every week.

We tried driving the crap to town, and putting it in recycle bins, but the task proved larger than the both of us.

The time, and money wasted to do it makes in uneconomical.

I hate to say it, but the only way I can deal with the shit is to burn it.

I feel sorry for farmers, their mission is a nobel one, but like everything else, so many stand in their way to make it so much harder and costlier than it should be.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that we ship eggs to China, which then arrive as chickens ready to process, and have the meat shipped back to us.
You smoke an emu with hickory and some apple woods.

Our modern world demands plastics. That is because plastics created our modernity. However, that doesn't excuse our abuse of the planet by disposing of the stuff improperly.

just as the gun is blamed for mass shootings, so is the plastics industry blamed for the tons of water bottles littering the beaches.

The bottle manufacturer did not place them there. Nor did the retailer. Since we cannot motivate the citizens to be good stewards of the earth, we are gonna have to deal with the original materials.

That's where biodegradable comes in. And agriculture will provide those solutions. But we have a very long way to go.

Current technology is primitive and expensive. Cornstarch makes a decent clear plastic that is compostable. Unfortunately it is hard top process and use. Raw stocks must be shipped in refrigerated trucks. And once exposed to ambient air, they begin to degrade. Shelf life is measured in days or weeks.
There has been some advances using hemp. Very, VERY promising.

We will have to be patient until chemist solve these issues. And hope the solutions don't actually create more pollution. Or other problems. I would try to help but my expertise in chemistry boils down to converting beer into urine.



Whatever the solutions, our farmers will have to be part of it. Growing hemp instead of beans could become common.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

What's the biodegradable factor on waxed cartons or waxed paper?

One thing I end up with a lot of is the styrofoam meat packaging.

Of course it's most likely impossible for everyone to buy their meats at the butcher counter and then wrapped in paper.

But man, I get tired of that stuff.

Another thing, if they quit falsely plumping up meats with water and other "enhancers" we probably wouldn't need all those absorbent napkin thingies.
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Old 08-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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What's the biodegradable factor on waxed cartons or waxed paper?

One thing I end up with a lot of is the styrofoam meat packaging.

Of course it's most likely impossible for everyone to buy their meats at the butcher counter and then wrapped in paper.

But man, I get tired of that stuff.

Another thing, if they quit falsely plumping up meats with water and other "enhancers" we probably wouldn't need all those absorbent napkin thingies.

"Waxed paper?"

Meat trays have a paper substitute but it requires a plastic coating. Or perhaps an organic wax.

We are talking PET bottles, Thermoformed tubs of lunch meat, foil lidding, plastic seals even your paper sugar packets are plastic coated. Water bottles use, at a minimum, three layers of materials ,paper pet food bags have seven or more barrier labels.

There is only so much we can now do with soybean and corn starch. Soy oil can be made into a wax. Corn starch makes a decent pseudo cellophane.

But that only takes care of packaging sheet film. It is not clear nor suitable for printing graphics. In other words, we are not anywhere near solving this issue.

Consumers take a lot for granted when they buy packaged goods. The technology of the bag far exceeds the technology of the Corn chips inside. Yes, it would be beneficial to them if the American farmers could participate more in creating materials for the the former so they can still participate in growing crops for the latter.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Sorry Bamby if I took this subject a bit off course. I think it more likely your intent may have been to discuss the negative effects of Trump's tariffs.

Instead I went to what "Farmers" should do.

Tariffs are just another obstacle in the path of a farmer's success. There are so many, weather, markets, disease, politics all seem to align or take turns putting ruination to what could be a successful year. My Farmer Grandpa used to always say,,,,; Next year! Next year will be better.

I believe he said that most every year for the 50 years I knew him.
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Sorry Bamby if I took this subject a bit off course. I think it more likely your intent may have been to discuss the negative effects of Trump's tariffs.

Instead I went to what "Farmers" should do.

Tariffs are just another obstacle in the path of a farmer's success. There are so many, weather, markets, disease, politics all seem to align or take turns putting ruination to what could be a successful year. My Farmer Grandpa used to always say,,,,; Next year! Next year will be better.

I believe he said that most every year for the 50 years I knew him.
Thanks but unnecessary Franc its just another example of how hard it is to contain a issue by examining a tiny aspect of the problem..

But these farmers aren't your grandparents or my grandparents were. These farmers have invested heavily into specialization and now that the markets are changing and there is less demand for their product they aren't fluid enough to make the transition.

It would be in essence similar to you shutting down your widget packaging line and opening a widget assembly line. The old line would then be worthless to you and you'd have to pack it out and buy all replacement equipment needed for assembly.

In my grandparents little farm they had a wide variety of potential cash flow growth throughout the farm. Life still wasn't easy or even great because the best of what the farm had to offer was sold at market for the cash flow to keep the family and farm going. But then again if a fox got into the chicken coop it wasn't the end of their world either.

In my mind I think hemp may be the long term savior if the government stays out of the way. But then again many farmers are already financially stressed and couldn't afford the cost of the transition needed to handle the cultivation and harvest of the hemp.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

The other reason soybeans will be hit is that China has culled over half their breeding herd of pig due to African Swine flue. They have no replacement protein in their market basket to take place of that. There is an international player, largest meat packer in the world out of Brazil known here as JBS. It has been speculated that pork from their plants here may head south to be relabled as south American production, and then shipped to China. What a deal for JBS if they are pulling this off... Soybean meal globally will see a 30% reduction due to all those hogs missing in China. We are now selling some Soybeans to the EU, something unheard of for a very long time. The EU was especially bad about keeping our AG products out. This seems to be changing quickly.

Monday the cat might be let out of the bag as to this years crop size, as millions of acers went unplanted, mainly in the Eastern production area's. Up to this point the market has been working off the last word USDA put out in June, that we planted 5% more corn this year than last. Every one knows that this is simply not the case. Cash corn in the country side is now worth more than it is in Chicago, as no one is selling the actual commodity, as in Chicago they only trade "paper grain", yet they claim to be were "price discovery" happens for not only the US price, but a "global price" as a producer or speculator can participate from any where on the planet, in the "paper trade".

Oh and the Speculator is worthy of an entirely new thread. Big Banks, Hedge funds, Mutual funds with retirement money, can since 2005 invest twice as much in a given commodity than ever before! Since that time the amount of the retail dollar a farmer receives has dropped to new record lows. All this, and the corn farmer, the cattle feeder are feeling huge financial stress so you can pay $12 per lb. for choice ribeye beef steak. I kid you not. Not only that but with out an open out call trade of old, computers now do all the trading, and they can trade at a rate of 6,000 trades per second, in each and every market. I kid you not....

To me this food system is a pie, and the speculators have doubled the size of their slice, at the expense of the farmer when there is adequate production, and at the expense of the consumer when we have to ration with increased prices. Like a tick on a dogs back we can only support so many speculators. Speculators are a big part, along with oligarchy's with in the supply chains as well as the processor chains, that act with impunity as monopoly's in their conduct. Is it any wonder why the food producers are suffering all the while food prices in the store are ever increasing? Does this make any sense at all to you?

Another burr under my saddle is the Dakota's. South Dakota more so of the two. Since the high prices at the beginning of ethanol production, stoked by a two year drought in the corn belt, the Dakota's are planting row crops in land never before farmed. The expansion of row crops is breath taking from some one who has spent a lot of time up that way. There has been huge outlays for infrastructure to grow corn and soybeans. We are gaining acers in an area that is prone to lack of water to grow said crops. SD sits on the Ogalola aquifer and that is being depleted by Nebraska production. They only reason they are farming this huge sand box is because of Federally subsidized crop insurance, and our premiums here in the actual corn belt are being used to subsidize this new and very risky production area. South Dakota, North Dakota are not part of the "Corn Belt" in any previous maps of the said belt area. We need to curb that, and could if we only required 10 years of production history in order for new lands to be insured. Simple change, huge results...

I could go on and on, with this diatribe. The table has tilted out of the farmers favor, and did so a long time ago. But the CFTC and CBOT have unleashed greed on a scale we have never experienced before. Vollitility is now the rule. When the Spec leaves a short position, he take a long position in the same play. I say make them sit on the side lines for 15 days before entering a new contract on the other side of the market. It will kill those specs if they had to do that..

Regards, Kirk
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Biodiesel is a far better use of agriculture than corn based ethanol. . Easier on the land as well. But politics put corn first. Corn over biodiesel & corn over sugar cane ethanol. It is a prime example of why Washington DC should not run any industrial part of the economy.

That said, the tariffs are working to their purpose. Despite assurances from Joe Biden, China is not our friend. We are currently engaged in an economic war with that nation. A war we must win. And, as with any war hot or cold, there will be sacrifices.

As for soybeans, farmers do have options. Chose other crops or find other markets. Europe would use our beans if we stopped planting the GMO stuff. Sugar beets grow just about anywhere in the USA.
Biodegradable plastics is another such market and there is a great demand for research and development in those products. I know this as we are currently trying to enter the EU with such plastics packaging biodegradable single use paper spoons. They have mandated that all such single use plastics be biodegradable or compostable by 2023. With any luck, our little company will be amoung the first to make it happen..

Henry Ford pioneered plastics from soybeans many years ago. I see no reason why soybeans could not be part of the solution.

Finally, I would point out that 20 years ago China could not feed it's people. Today it exports food products to the USA, Russia and the EU. The lucrative soybean market in China for USA beans would not go on forever.
I 100% agree with your analogy about China and learned a few things about soy beans and biodegradable products. Marty
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Here is a classic example of what happens when a beef packing plant has a fire in a cardboard box making room...


This is just one example of the oligarchy in the beef packing industry taking full advantage of an accident THEY HAD. nothing at all to do with a beef producer. But, you as a consumer are also being taken for a ride, and you wallet as well. These guys take advantage of both the producer, and you, the consumer. And above all, they could care less if they can Bank extra profits.

In the corn market, USDA released their much waited for August report. Corn has dropped like a rock ever since, taking nearly 60 cents of the cash price. But their number do not add up when you do the math on crop size. USDA says that there were 10 million acers not planted to corn, yet they estimate of the crop size does not show those missing acers they say are out there. More smoke and mirrors, more broken dreams of an actual good profitable year gone again... at least till harvest. Then will we know the truth? Unlikely I think. The lies will continue, because some one thinks we will not run short of corn. Heck if we are not short, and have to ration, you can bet we will have below cost of production prices. This market so needs Trump to take a look at the sheer criminality of the commodity markets today....

Regards, Kirk
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

It also conveniently happens at some oil refinery every damn year right before summer peak demand so they can get the prices and profits up.

It's all corrupt but the parties involved are way to big and control so much of the markets and the money they can more or less do any damn thing they like with confidence that nothing going to be down to do a damn thing about it..
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Corbin Wall with a scathing commentary about collusion in the cattle markets. He hits the nail directly on the head.. Just one of a dozen Ag markets being spoiled by the very trade that they are the pillar of. With out farmers and the work we do, there would be NO MARKETS....


The American farmer is being screwed, right along with you the Citizen consumers. Are you liking it yet?

Regards, Kirk
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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The American farmer is being screwed, right along with you the Citizen consumers. Are you liking it yet?

Regards, Kirk
The American people can't help people who make it almost impossible to help them. The farmer by choice has pretty much separated himself from the market.

Wasn't all that long ago I had standing orders for half a hanging beef and a pig or sometimes a pig and a half from local farmers. But they have retired some time ago and the farms are now deer habitat for some well to do city smuckers who think of themselves as great white hunters hiding in blinds behind rotating feed bins that call in their pray.

Oh this was about Farming, anyway the farmers if they want to survive are going to haft to figure out how to go about squeezing out the middle man.

I mean damn they ain't really got any skin in the game and they're the ones making all the money. I mean you raise the crop taking all the chances and risks it will prosper to marketable size and then dump them at action with only a couple of bidders who are in bed together... Someone needs to wake up and smell the coffee...
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Yet another blow to farmers, but this time from another angle.

https://www.agriculture.com/news/bus...griculture.com

This is just the beginning I fear, as Poet is reducing ethanol production at some of it's other plants as well.

Regards, Kirk
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

Another of the great commentary provided by Corbin Wall. This one is the best one yet of the problems in the Cattle markets.


Ever had shit on your boots? Lol this guy has!

Regards, Kirk
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H View Post
Yet another blow to farmers, but this time from another angle.

https://www.agriculture.com/news/bus...griculture.com

This is just the beginning I fear, as Poet is reducing ethanol production at some of it's other plants as well.

Regards, Kirk
Whilst I hate to see the negative impact this will have on farmers, you know how I feel about ethanol. It is some bad stuff for engines, the petrol industry, and the environment. Farmers should not have been so duped as to accept non food corn production as a fat cow.

Once again, the story plays out and the government screwed things up. The politically connected made millions off the taxpayers and hardworking farmers. All of it done as they operated against the currents of capitalism and market principles. This latest move is no different.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Whats a Farmer to do....

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Whilst I hate to see the negative impact this will have on farmers, you know how I feel about ethanol. It is some bad stuff for engines, the petrol industry, and the environment. Farmers should not have been so duped as to accept non food corn production as a fat cow.

Once again, the story plays out and the government screwed things up. The politically connected made millions off the taxpayers and hardworking farmers. All of it done as they operated against the currents of capitalism and market principles. This latest move is no different.
As I hope you remember, I do not sell my corn to an ethanol plant unless there is an issue that my food grade processor can not accept a load of corn. (one load is 1,000 bu. or 58,000 lbs. btw) Lately it has been because of to high of moistier content that I had loads rejected. And even those I took a bit of a hit on, because I chose to take it to a Coop instead of an ethanol plant. I do how ever corn is not just a food for live stock sort of crop. Long before ethanol we used corn for industrial use. Ethanol how ever has increased this category immensely.

USDA, CBOT, and CFTC are all to blame for the mess we have today from a farmers prospective. All of them seem to be more than willing to accommodate the doubling of speculative money in the CBOT markets. Big money wins again. Any surprises? Lol

Regards, Kirk
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