Chipseal or Sealcoating on Asphalt Rd.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 17, 2006

So anybody have any experience between Sealcoating and Chipsealing of Asphalt roads. Is Sealcoating a waste of money? Is Chipsealing worth the additional expense?

We have two mile of private road and have an estimate of around $30,000 to get it chipsealed. I think I can get it sealcoated for around $10,000.

The road is only 4-5 years old but is getting heavy use these days since a new resident has been getting tons of construction done with lots of heavy equipment. There are lots of cracks forming and one bad pothole.

We have collected $20,000 in maintenance fees so I'm looking at either getting the first half of the road chipsealed or getting the whole thing sealcoated and then repeating the sealcoating more often.

Any suggestions, wisdom, or input?

PB

LarryRB · Jul 17, 2006

when I worked the highway dpt, we did miles and miles of chipsealing... Last road I did, 4 years ago, I believe was .084 cents per foot. This is two coats of oil, and two layers of 1/4 dpped chip stone.. Chip sealing is best because it outlast other systems, and best of all, in cold climates chip seal is like an elastic band,.. Only two times you have problems is the first 16 or so days when laid down, if a hot rod teenager or even older person, burnes rubber and spins the wheels, you are almost 100% guaranteed a problem where the burn out occured, The other problem is on rare ocassions where a stone/rock works it's way up through winter and actually "tears" through the seal... Although not happening often, this is guaranteed pot hole repair come spring. Also, it this is a private road, as many were in the town I worked for,,, many times the people get together and pay for the first layer, and the town hwy dpt footed the second layer costs,, Short term and long term , this helps both parties,,, The private road has a decent surface and for plowing/sanding purposes in winter time the chip sealed roads cut plow time and sand use in half,, So don't be afraid to approach the local hwy dpt and run this by them.. For us, and homes on any given private road, and our actually matching half costs,, is a win win situation for all involved.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 18, 2006

LarryRB said:
when I worked the highway dpt, we did miles and miles of chipsealing... Last road I did, 4 years ago, I believe was .084 cents per foot. This is two coats of oil, and two layers of 1/4 dpped chip stone.. Chip sealing is best because it outlast other systems, and best of all, in cold climates chip seal is like an elastic band,.. Only two times you have problems is the first 16 or so days when laid down, if a hot rod teenager or even older person, burnes rubber and spins the wheels, you are almost 100% guaranteed a problem where the burn out occured, The other problem is on rare ocassions where a stone/rock works it's way up through winter and actually "tears" through the seal... Although not happening often, this is guaranteed pot hole repair come spring. Also, it this is a private road, as many were in the town I worked for,,, many times the people get together and pay for the first layer, and the town hwy dpt footed the second layer costs,, Short term and long term , this helps both parties,,, The private road has a decent surface and for plowing/sanding purposes in winter time the chip sealed roads cut plow time and sand use in half,, So don't be afraid to approach the local hwy dpt and run this by them.. For us, and homes on any given private road, and our actually matching half costs,, is a win win situation for all involved.

Thanks Larry! That's great insight.

Unfortunately, I don't think our County will touch our road. They don't plow it in the winter. They take our taxes (and probably raised them because we paved the road) but we get very little in return.

Can you chipseal over a sealcoated road? I'm considering just getting sealcoating this year and then waiting for another year or two of road dues to get the sealcoating done.

I found another chipseal company today so hopefully they come out and give us an estimate that is closer to our $20,000 budget. I don't want to just do half the road.

Thanks again,

Paul

Junkman · Jul 18, 2006

Re: Chip-seal or Seal-coating on Asphalt Rd.

Chip-seal is good on roads that are heavily traveled, and seal coating is good for less traveled roads. Both have there uses and one is not a substitute for the other. The best way to keep any road in good condition is to fix the pot holes before they get big. If the original paving wasn't a good quality job, neither chip-seal or seal-coating will be of any use. A road is only as good as the base. One thing to be careful about is that some that seal-coat put down inferior products. I have seen where some just spray the pavement with a oil mixture that looks good for a few weeks, but does nothing to preserve the pavement. Buyer beware......You must know what you are getting for your money. The best seal coating product is called Tarconite asphalt pavement sealer. You also might ask the person that is doing the construction to pay a little extra since it is the trucks serving them that are causing the most harm.. Junk...

LarryRB · Jul 18, 2006

If your talking old county roads that the county will not take care of anymore,, talk to the county first. Ask and find out when (they) chip seal.. Whenever they chip seal their scheduled roads, see if they will do yours that same week.... Reason is,,, at least here in New England, the people footing the bill pay the same as the county.... Again, we paid .084 cents per foot. WHen it is private and not municipal paying the bill, you will pay 42 cents per foot...Cost wise,, see if you can swing a deal...In Holland MA, we had two county roads that the county abandonned in the early 50's. They still wanted to "own" them, but long ago did away with county road repair. If they say we may do this, get the price up front, then, more importantly, collect all the money from the people up front... On every single road we did where people paid the bill, there was always someone who refused to pay,,,, Why pay when you jerks foot the bill type attitude,. Then, you most always had an elderly that couldn't pay... In their case, almost always, the others chipped in another 50-75 to cover the elderly..

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 18, 2006

Re: Chip-seal or Seal-coating on Asphalt Rd.

Junkman said:
You also might ask the person that is doing the construction to pay a little extra since it is the trucks serving them that are causing the most harm.. Junk...

Unfortunately, this SOB hasn't even paid his annual road assessment yet.

Liens will be getting assigned August 1.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 18, 2006

LarryRB said:
If your talking old county roads that the county will not take care of anymore,, talk to the county first. Ask and find out when (they) chip seal.. Whenever they chip seal their scheduled roads, see if they will do yours that same week.... Reason is,,, at least here in New England, the people footing the bill pay the same as the county.... Again, we paid .084 cents per foot. WHen it is private and not municipal paying the bill, you will pay 42 cents per foot...Cost wise,, see if you can swing a deal...In Holland MA, we had two county roads that the county abandonned in the early 50's. They still wanted to "own" them, but long ago did away with county road repair. If they say we may do this, get the price up front, then, more importantly, collect all the money from the people up front... On every single road we did where people paid the bill, there was always someone who refused to pay,,,, Why pay when you jerks foot the bill type attitude,. Then, you most always had an elderly that couldn't pay... In their case, almost always, the others chipped in another 50-75 to cover the elderly..

Hi Larry,

This is just a private road that was thinly asphalted about 4-5 years ago (before we lived here). We don't have any elderly, just some people that are selfish and lazy. These people all have lots of cars and toys and should easily be able to contribute to the road maintenance.

We have seen huge increases in property values in recent years so these people have seen increases in their equity. They just choose to be selfish and try to get others to pay. That's what liens are for and when I got elected President I warned everyone that I was a "blunt hammer". I'm getting the liens put out asap. I have no patience for people that don't pay their bills on time.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 24, 2006

A follow up questions:

What's the difference between "chip seal" and "slurry seal" ?

I got an estimate for slurry seal from the same company that does all the city/county roads and it is really good compared to some of the sealcoating quotes and the one quote for chip seal.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

PB

LarryRB · Jul 24, 2006

the term "slurry" seal is a new one on me. So I can't give you an answer.

DaveNay · Jul 24, 2006

PBinWA said:
A follow up questions:

What's the difference between "chip seal" and "slurry seal" ?

I got an estimate for slurry seal from the same company that does all the city/county roads and it is really good compared to some of the sealcoating quotes and the one quote for chip seal.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

PB

What is Slurry Seal?
Slurry Seal is a cold-mix paving system that can remedy a broad range of problems on streets, airfields, parking lots and driveways. Think of Slurry as an Industrial Grade Asphalt Surfacing.
The principal materials used to create slurry seal are aggregate, asphalt emulsion and fillers, which are mixed together according to a laboratory's design mix formula. Water is also added for workability.

http://www.cpmamerica.com/Slurry_Seal.htm

Chip Seal is a thin surface treatment consisting of an application of liquid asphalt or emulsion binder covered with an aggregate.

http://www.missouripetroleum.com/chipseal.html

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Jul 25, 2006

Thanks Dave,

So is one better than the other? How much better? (as in twice the price better?).

I found some good reading on http://www.slurry.com and it appears that chip seal is the best but it doesn't look like it is that much better. It also looks like slurry seal may give better traction and fill cracks a little better. These are both issues with our current road as it has a steep hill and lots of cracks in places.

Hopefully someone with experience can concurr or dispute my observations.

PB

Junkman · Jul 25, 2006

After reading about the slurry seal, it seems to be a better product. If it is available in your area, I would give it a try. This is the first time that I have heard of the product, but based on the presentation at the website, it appears to be good. One thing is for certain, the company doesn't appear to be a scam or fly by night organization. Too much high tech investment, and if it didn't work, they wouldn't still be in business making the machines. Junk...

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Aug 28, 2006

So we went with the Slurry Seal. It was $17 K to do our 1.1 Mile private road with a Type II Slurry Seal. This price compared to quotes of $10K from a toothless guy in a pickup for "sealcoating", 22K from a professional sealcoater with good references, to 30K for Chip Seal from a company that didn't have many references. The Slurry Seal company we used had lots of reputable references (cities, counties, airports, etc.).

They do these smaller private roads on the weekends as overtime sork for their crews. Obviously, they cram as much work as possible into the summer months.

We had them do our driveway with Type I Slurry Seal (a finer rock) and they came out and did it the day before the main road but they missed a few small spots so I mentioned this to the supervisor and asked if I could get a bucket of slop to fill in the spots myself. They said they could just back the equipment in and put in another layer of Type II down if I wanted!

An extra layer for free! Oh yeah - I "wanted"!

Here are some pictures:

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Aug 28, 2006

Here's a close up of some Type I (on the right side) and some Type II (on the left side) and a picture of the finished stuff two days later.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Aug 28, 2006

In summary, the Slurry Seal process took a while to get done.

The private road was closed from 7am to 5pm and for the next two weeks you have to baby the surface as it is soft. Driving on the road is fine but torque on the surface from spin outs or turning your wheels while staionary are bad. I found out today that my wife is incapable of backing out of the garage and turning her car without torquing on the wheel while stationary. For the next two weeks she has to park on the round-a-bout out front!

I'm sure some drivers on our road will tear it up in places but I'm not sure how we could stop it.

Otherwise, it is nice to get the new layer of rock and goop on the surface. I think it is much better than seal coating since you are adding rock back to the road.

Time will tell how good it is.

Melensdad · Aug 28, 2006

I'm curious to hear how it holds up through the freeze/thaw cycles in the winter. Do you get the extreme cold weather or do you have moderate winters due to pacific ocean air cycles?

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Aug 28, 2006

B_Skurka said:
I'm curious to hear how it holds up through the freeze/thaw cycles in the winter. Do you get the extreme cold weather or do you have moderate winters due to pacific ocean air cycles?

I'm actually, in a strange little area on the corner of the Columbia River Gorge. We get long periods of sustained 20-50 MPH winds in the winter with frequent freezing rain. It's not uncommon to get 1/4-1/2 inch of ice covering the east side of everthing during the winter. Some periods of heavy snow but usually just lots of cold wind.

It will be interesting to see how it stands up to my farm blade when I plow it in the winter. I'm hoping the finer surface of the Type I will hold in place better than the rougher Type II. When they put in the Type II it was only on a long narrow (heavily travelled) straight strip of the driveway and not the entire driveway. I'll be able to get a good analysis of how the two types compare for future work.

kensfarm · Aug 28, 2006

2 weeks ago the county chip-sealed the paved road in front of my farm. The dust.. rocks flying.. I'm sure it did a number on any car's paint job that went down the road. They put tar on the road.. cover w/ rocks.. then roll it. I ask one farmer what happens to it when they plow the snow in the winter.. won't it just scrap off. He said it'll be long gone before then.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · Aug 28, 2006

Chip Seal is "supposed" to be better than Seal Coating but I think the benefits aren't huge. Around here the county used chip seal on rural roads since I think it is applied pretty quickly and easily. From what I've heard it is still susceptible to tear out and surface torque while the oil coating is drying.

At the end of the day you are just throwing rocks, tar, rubber, and goo on the road and hoping as much of it sticks as possible. The truth is it is an ongoing process and you have to budget for more rocks and goo every couple of years. Some people just don't get that. They think the road should last forever.

Av8r3400 · Aug 28, 2006

Ask anyone who has ever been on a motorcycle and found themselves at highway speed on a freshly "chip-sealed" road.

Been there. Done that. Have the scars to prove it.

Chipseal or Sealcoating on Asphalt Rd.

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