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1980 Tucker 1544 Engine Install - 4BD1T

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think its about time where I got some wiggle room and extra info to start up a thread on here.

So, I've got that engineless Tucker 1544 from Colorado back last spring, so some of you might have heard.

Its been a bit of a ride, being busy w/life's other projects as some will agree, doesnt help with getting such projects done as fast as we would like to.

I find myself to be a guy that starts a project and gets it done in fastest manner possible otherwise another project might just steal my attention.

After various research and many many suggestions from a lot of you, as well as other by-standers, I made a choice on the engine to be used for the install.

Engine of choice came to be Isuzu's 4BD1T mated with its Auto transmission out of 1989 Isuzu NPR box truck we had seating on the property for past 13 years after it been in an accident.

Put some jumper cables and turned the key - is it a surprise that it started?! - I dont know, but I was surprised, as in most cases there is a lot more word with a gasser engine if it was to sit that long.

In anycase truck has been brought over next door to my buddy's shop, where I have access to a forklift and some extra tools that my home garage cant handle.

Engine pulled - cat brought in from storage - and work started.

p.s. lots of the process might not make sense to some, and thats okay,

now lets upload some pictures
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Before taking the cat to the shop, stopped by at a local hydro shop,
was advised to put a VTM style pump instead of the V20P Vickers, as I only need to have enough flow/pressure, etc. for steering control.

So I guess time will show how that comes out.


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Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Cleaned out the firewall on the engine's side, removed all electric, etc. components, as everything will be installed from scratch.

Engine went in pretty easy, the "shorty" driveline (transmission to transfercase) was taken to a local shop that takes care of a lot of farm equipment, they proved to be a lot more reliable than our local "driveline" shop, who seemed to be dumbfounded once I presented them with the project of joining the 2 different drivelines.

In any case, once driveline is in, I'll continue with mounts - floors been removed in the interior's front - making easy access to do all necessary work.

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Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: wiring / dash

:shitHitFan: once I got under the dash - I love just ripping stuff apart.

This cat is gonna get it in full from me, all from scratch. Not 100% sure on how I will deal with switches and gauges, if they all work as they should (I'm assuming), I'll keep them as they are all in place, with may be adding few extra for the engine monitoring. This cat will only see stage 1 work at this time, no major restorations/paints, etc.

In any case, our own CH27 circuit expander like the one I used in Frandee will be placed to run all of the circuits, plus it has a built in timer which will allow me to run certain circuits timed, with an option of low volt protection auto start if I decide thats needed.

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Nikson

Bronze Member
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4BD1T and JR403-e Automatic

Do we have any gurus from the transmission world here...

I'm currently at a similar stage like "olympicorange" with his Nellie "Bell" project, where engine and tranny almost in place and it about to get to the rest of stuff like wiring.

So here is my concern/question/confusion or whatever you want to call it.

Seems like the 4BD1T setup is pretty "electronics" free, where it should run just fine without much wiring to it (in a comparison to a EFI gas engine). Wires to starter/temp/pressure sensors aside and considered.
But in a case of the automatic transmission, it got a TCM/U (transmission control module/unit), which got crap load of wires going to it.

For the most part, since I got the wire harness out of the working truck, I have it all, but I did put the wire harness though the "weedout" process, removing all the stuff that wont be needed/used as it was in the boxtruck originally (e.i. lights / wipers / heaters, etc.). For all those I'll be wiring one of my own setups.

Transmission is a JR403-e to what I've gotten from my research, and I guess there is not way of getting around just running it shirting gears by cable only?

Hopefully wasnt too confusing on all the commentary, just trying to make sense of things... (and yes, I've thought about throwing a manual in there instead of the auto; just trying to work with what I've got on hand without buying more than necessary)
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
cleaning out the wire harness

cleaning out/removal of extras from the harness.

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Seems like this is a RARE image of the fuse box layout

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All removed and marked, remaining relays for glow plugs, starter & alternator wiring, along with TCM.

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olympicorange

Active member
….. the line sheet from our donor comes up as a ; …. JATCO RMK-A/T 4 ,.... did a quick google.... didn't really come up with much info....or if the two are the same.... also found GM calls it the ''electramatic'' … in their ''W'' series, not built by them. this one has the park pawl , cable shift, no external T/V - gov. the wire harness connector is in link with the neutral safety sw., rev./ b/u sw., possibly the L/U convertor (if avail.). … the search continues....
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
….. the line sheet from our donor comes up as a ; …. JATCO RMK-A/T 4 ,.... did a quick google.... didn't really come up with much info....or if the two are the same.... also found GM calls it the ''electramatic'' … in their ''W'' series, not built by them. this one has the park pawl , cable shift, no external T/V - gov. the wire harness connector is in link with the neutral safety sw., rev./ b/u sw., possibly the L/U convertor (if avail.). … the search continues....

If you have the AUTO tranny in your setup like in my case (which I believe so) I have the info on the tranny ... DM me your email address or text to my number and I'll send you the files over email on what I got so far.

My understanding that auto (at least in my case and is the case in your situation as well) - its the JR403-e and it is electronically controlled shift. I got manuals on it and you can have them if you wish, just let me know.

Nikson 503-999-3244
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: misc

Question came up - whats the wire on the steering column?

Horn?!?!?

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Nikson

Bronze Member
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Re: motor mounts

Motor mounts lines up nicely with the frame supports from the body.

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Something about that "safety orange" color that I always like on all of the projects, even before I ever got try/see a Tucker, now it all fits into place...

Motor mounts braced/painted

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Nikson

Bronze Member
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Re: Transmission mounts

Onto transmission...

Cut the factory top mount off the tranny, some HD u-channel fit into place and was able to reuse the factory tranny mounts/bushings as well.

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Driveline that was with the cat when I got it - not sure how similarly sized to the factory one... but I was able to make it work.

Spicer parts were picked up and fitted.

so to fit JR403e to the driveline I had - these parts were used (in case anyone needs it)

SPI/3-2-1549 FLANGE YOKE
NEA/2-1435 U-Joint

So U-joint is sized differently on each opposite side (one fits my original driveline and other sized to the new flange yoke that fit directly to the back of the JR403e tranny.

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Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: part numbers for reference

Some part numbers for reference

4BD1T thermostat

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Steering column hydro

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steering ram

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Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: radiator - 4BD1T

factory Isuzu NPRs radiator was fitted, found it to fit perfectly with some minor mods. 16in fan electric fan fitted on the back of the radiator.

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Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: transmission wiring

Started on wiring mess...or order... one or the other LOL :)

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To put things into perspective - this is just the gas pedal sensors :)

p.s. I'm sure that a lot of things can be removed and simplified, as for me - I'm far from an expert on diesels and on this tranny. In any case, I figured since I have access to all the parts off the donor rig, why not just make it work as is.

So, I'm placing everything as it was on Isuzu - and simplifying what I can

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Nikson

Bronze Member
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Re: V20P hydro pump

had hard time getting information on this pump, so whats better than sharing it here for anyone looking for the replacement in the future.

When I asked question in earlier posts on "what pump" is the replacement pump, no one gave me a straight answer other than "i think/i should" - in turn all was needed is the number on the tag like on the picture.

That tags includes all the information for ordering a new replacement (if old one is gone like it was in my case)

By the way - Tucker guys didnt give me a straight answer either, rather explaining the numbers, but nothing obvious without having to do load of unnecessary research IMHO

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Pulley & Bushing Part numbers

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offSjcP5c2_0X2VZdwV1XLen7br8x1Xd60IwFOnREmlGw1YgjwVu96hxRAX2NKL8adKeiiPLcbeKE2bwaFVtT6dnBm9zOpNCGD_DtixAsXSSjZvmrRtYuFlqdimAuGfjwLfswG0Thp_8aPeg1FJfzrwHxxWSmA7E-HkzD6XHJQkpqx4XWAqkt5iozqisBtwWJzp0LJf-HJ8wqF15pDepmZEhPzXSv9YTV4K5IIFMJ_cTK5-DqG9U8qwMIax3c9qr6zSVA7BQ8taG-EsVSofWQyvpepV_H1rvknU0niYx82JJPtsY5r5QttmYku_vOWWcqJ-QjuCsO2e4LOTFyW1mpE6GuqfHDO29T-AyEiAj7IRim8Ru1ho7AWSfNhWGsuTZ6WX5DcejNL2I4BOYnhBPMMLPGOdGzdRdexuDF8liH0_afpQeuBd98yWqVyM6px9lF00u2EEqrymo7RjtN1Wr81xxhN99LwATV2GBzEnV-lE-6AxTYDwwEH6T2gSehbu4fVxqHr0KcOSkRVbhT2-AdBWx-afkH3-ydiL0ArbAFHoW2BHfh-Tc2vy4uuwysT_7n9qRw6WPiDHfIAEF4MP1R02DI0SqypEOJ6s-k9xU37KbhMarCu4Ci9Mx8J_d_lkAo_rfHFfnam0cv_xiQIVcgSH99SFPJVmxjBtVxpzWpL1KWsNRvNsE0WSA6GcwVwkl75EtgCuSa8otiZMV0gSkhlWG2agbrgoa5NmfHLYHBlgj-SGh0A=w1133-h850-no
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Re: shifter and pedals

throttle pedal & brake pedal modded and installed (pre-paint)

original Isuzu pedal got few new bends/twists to fit into the new spot.
brake pedal moved off to the left (yes - it clears the steering column)

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Isuzu's shifter was easily mounted into the dash, as I would like to keep my floor clear of extra clutter if I can, thinking may be a bench seat in the front to make it more comfortable for my little kid to sit in the middle :)

Being able to re-use all of the pedals/shifters and other components, made the engine swap fairly easy. Honestly, almost too easy.

Time consuming, yes, but far from being complicated, considering its my first engine transplant.

Hoping to take it out for a test-drive sometime in March, as February filled with other plans/holidays/trips.

HWMinFzdTuLY8TfEmFyiw3pNFoWGJg7kBm8PTQ_TBthv14fIynF-tLyCJTRX-SKNs2uydFU183_LDmSEfd48WjdFvlmTVnE9W5OwKUHcnv2zqp8doO8iqKIe0PDdniOMSdGNHFasOubV6E7LheAjaMO0M5GonzEQHJJkxQk-bZSagRS3TQVrf6Bm9dweclc42BdM1x34kwmJbYay1zxrd9NC8JU6bS855OZIRw--ZusgZ9bJhswfoTpfwYlDjtEDUuT7XKkJmcFBgK94h1L4lRez6eebo9v0hKeBv9YF4CEyB9TPjVY7wumYHnk-lY6eQ69Mj_vb6cyxuqOpjHG3RhM-USBwT565mXPrANsPuSDEkfDMxjlTgvTxTLFvu6-qjQC6HNjGh-bmz6NSTHMOZ17AXamVoY7lkwnkkInYwO7BdhWqkWDvQXtCLfKXpTk5nWRQnR47oq7agL3qr_5gYB_fYENPEh8SGGodxtnOQj1sSXyptGmPapLo2nEsyRayJp3kGuAXQlQTrSslSFdsySzG4TUofqOpVBcRrPpQTkeEahNMQpYJ2xITaHU53pXtM6N-GvB8fxV1SFywYilLJSnHj2zMjHHCeb3GOmSOYo9LSy1PAwCxdmxuUh2G9s_tTxSV4_O1vv4JLiXwb7KWsL0Djdnl3dm9ew_EvmeUf3B4wNxZMKougY_1lBxEfeSXZeDpImVd8wbuHpEUvklaAcfgqyrJjjxnsZvJyUlZNVzTJRvlDA=w1133-h850-no
 

olympicorange

Active member
……. looking good :thumbup: ,... yes the wire to steering column is the ground wire for the horn, steering wheel button has brass contact rings underneath. whats the center to center measurement , ujoint caps, of your ''intermediate'' shaft, looks a few inches longer than the one I had made up. what's the style drive on your new pump , gear or pulley driven (guess I missed that question in the blog somewhere). like the brake pedal ''shift'' . mounts look great... :thumbup:
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
……. looking good :thumbup: ,... yes the wire to steering column is the ground wire for the horn, steering wheel button has brass contact rings underneath. whats the center to center measurement , ujoint caps, of your ''intermediate'' shaft, looks a few inches longer than the one I had made up. what's the style drive on your new pump , gear or pulley driven (guess I missed that question in the blog somewhere). like the brake pedal ''shift'' . mounts look great... :thumbup:

Its pulley, as I'm not sure how you would power it via gear (unless I miss understood you this time around) :)

Pulley/bushing for the pump part numbers are on the photos.

Thats my next step on the project - getting the brakets figured out to fit the pump on the motor.

I'm guessing you have the original pump from your original motor setup, right?!

May be I should make 2 of the brakets, like in the Twix commercial. :)
 

PJL

Well-known member
Looks great Bud. Good plan to reuse the truck wiring. You know it worked in the truck. Why reinvent the wheel?
 

olympicorange

Active member
….. yes,... but the old pump was n/g ,... full of strawberry ''milk''. it leaked as fast as I poured oil into it. what about the engine driven p/s pump ,.. gear driven off the timing gears. are you going to run hyds. to groom ,..or anything else ,... besides the steering system. i'm going to go with the eng. pump. and see how it operates. that's what I did with my cummins, and it works smoothly. it's actually not so erratic , as the old belt driven orig. pump. :thumbup:
 

Nikson

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
….. yes,... but the old pump was n/g ,... full of strawberry ''milk''. it leaked as fast as I poured oil into it. what about the engine driven p/s pump ,.. gear driven off the timing gears. are you going to run hyds. to groom ,..or anything else ,... besides the steering system. i'm going to go with the eng. pump. and see how it operates. that's what I did with my cummins, and it works smoothly. it's actually not so erratic , as the old belt driven orig. pump. :thumbup:

Jeez Louz... I have no idea... honestly, this has been a totally new venture with the steering hydro and I've found no one who's wise/knowledgeable enough to tell me whats up.

Seems like the steering RAM on the 1544 is more than factory gear driven steering can handle for what I understand, thus I've gone with the V20P.

I do not plan on running any other hydro accessories at this time, otherwise - time will show.

There was a plow out there in WA state for the Tucker, but I'm not ready to jump that route just yet, as I'm still hoping to drive an LMC1500 one of the days to stop hoping that its my IDEAL cat to stop my wonderings... LOL

Cheers...
 

olympicorange

Active member
… roger that... well I wondered the same thing, P.S.I is P.S.I. , in any application. any type of pump will make ''unlimited'' pressure , until the weakest link fails. hence the need for a main relief valve , ( and line reliefs ; as your system gets more involved). the most common thing noticed by most is ; speed of the system , which is ''flow'' ,...or GPM ( gallons per minute). so, for example ; we've all probably experienced loosing a p/s belt, etc.... you can still steer it ; as long as you're moving , not sitting still... like an old farm tractor . that's called ''Armstrong '' steering. well hyd. pumps are merely ''power assist'' for ease of operation. a very nice perk. so when I first drove mine out of the shop, the hyd. pump wasn't mounted to engine, no hyd. tank, oil, etc....but the steering lines from the HMV/HMU to the steering cyl. were. while I was in motion (fwd or rev.) , I could ever so slightly turn the wheel and tracks ….. not full radius of course, but enough to change the alignment of the front & rear tracks to reposition back into the shop. so you never know till you try. try anything once to see if it works, if not, adapt & overcome... so I would try your original p/s pump , that came on engine , and see what happens. it's only two hyd. hoses. the other ones you have to connect anyways. hey it worked to steer the truck , right...I think it''ll work :thumbup: give it a shot...……………….
 

olympicorange

Active member
so, that was my question also,... if you were going to add hyd. options into the equation ; groomer drag, tiller, frt. plow, etc....well then of course it wouldn't work. but you can always add an extra hyd. pump down the road. but if the p/s will operate just the steering, it''ll be easier to install & mount , take up less space, and cover up the hole in the timing cover ...lol :thumbup:
 

Backyardski

BackyardskiLima
GOLD Site Supporter
Beyond my snowcat budget but basically a new machine. No ratty wiring to replace, don’t have to touch the tracks, paint is good, just add a cab and the custom touches and it would check a lot of the desirable boxes.Probably a pretty good value. You could always pull the motor and sell it for waaay more- Only joking Bud!:thumbup:
That’s a light machine, 4400# empty. You could find a nice aluminum trailer to put it on for the cost of that one and be able to pull it with almost anything
 

PJL

Well-known member
I've wondered why the 1200 is so much heavier than the 1500. Ours is just under 8,000. That's with a full tank, driver, tool box full of goodies. Still seems pretty heavy.
 

Backyardski

BackyardskiLima
GOLD Site Supporter
The thing (1200c) tag says 7450 empty, same engine/trans, not sure if the 1500 has an oc 12 but the dif must be close in weight if it isn’t. Plus 500-1000 for a full cab maybe?
They found a way to shave off a bunch of weight somehow, looks like a tub more than a frame sub-frame
 
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