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Need some serious advice.

Angelface

New member
Before I get into this, I don't want any harsh criticism or snarky remarks please. Not saying I think anyone here would, but I just kindly want to ask this. Anyways on to the topic of what this thread is about...

Has anyone here heard of the Oregon bus crash that killed nine back in December? Well I was out hiking in the area of the crash with my fiance and his friends a few days after this happened. Now keep in mind please that I had no idea we where in the area it happened or did we have any objective of finding it. But while in the area we came across a road that lead to the scene. Curiosity got the better of a member of our group and he persuaded my fiance to go with him to get a better look the scene and see how and what happened. Not wanting to be left alone in the woods (I have a thing about that) I went with him. What a horrible mistake this was.

Upon arriving at the scene there was still a big portion of the bus left behind. Even worse on the ground was blood among what seemed to be human remains. Not like bodies, but more less flesh and other small parts. I instantly freaked out and felt an overwhelming sense of nausea and weakness and told my fiance that I wanted to leave right away!!!

We did and came home that night and since then I told myself not think about it and just continue with life. However, this isn't happening as I have had a really disruptive sleep pattern. What's worse is the often nightmares I have been having as well. The sight of raw meats or certain foods gets to me more than I think it should and I have avoided a lot of things in my diet. Why is this? Why is this getting to me like this? How do I just get over what I just seen for such a brief moment. Any help on this would be very very much appreciated!!! I just really want to move on from it!!!
 

luvs

'lil yinzer~
GOLD Site Supporter
angelface, that must be horrific.
maybe talking to a pro could be of relief.
 

Angelface

New member
It was... it really was. Like just a horrible nightmare of a scene. I often think about talking to someone professional as well. I just didn't think it would bother me like this. I can't stop thinking about the victims and asking why... it's just very sad. :(
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
i have seen first hand mangled body parts and death . you will never forget it and the memories can often cause irregular behavior.that said,i am sorry you had to see it. over time the images and mental memory will become less and less visceral and you will be able to feel normal again. say a prayer for the victims and their family's if you are religious... it sometimes helps me.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
As a former Paramedic, I have seen my share of what you described. Not just the gruesome scenes but their effect on involved people and witnesses of the event.

The good news here is you are brave enough to bring up the subject. Even in the anonymity of the internet.
I wouldn't normaly recommend it but, since you are so seriously affected, best see someone who has training in handling such matters.

A minister or a priest will do it for free. But a phsycologist is a comfortable option.

Do not let this fester. Do it now.

Be well
 

Angelface

New member
I am tied into my church very well. I just don't know how to bring myself to talk about it there. But im sure you guys are right and I should to ease the thoughts. Thank you and yes many prayers made. :)
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Angelface,

I don't know if this will be as comforting as the other replies but it may quell your thoughts of what you saw.

I don't believe that there would be any human flesh remains after such an incident. Whatever wasn't cleaned up by people at the scene would easily have been cleaned up by mom nature in a matter of days. Be it scavenger birds or animals, there wouldn't be anything left after a month. Could it have been oils or such from the vehicle? Hydraulic fluid in particular is red in color. What you saw that you believe could have been flesh may have been pieces of insulation that have been soaked and laying flat.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
If you are more comfortable talking here, please do. I don't think you will find snarky remarks or criticism.

While you will always remember the incident, the memories will diminish with time.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
To NOT have the reaction you have experienced would be more troubling, IMO. It shows you actually have strong feelings about the misfortune of others. As said before, pray for the victims. It's healing for you.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
As a former Paramedic, I have seen my share of what you described. Not just the gruesome scenes but their effect on involved people and witnesses of the event.

The good news here is you are brave enough to bring up the subject. Even in the anonymity of the internet.
I wouldn't normaly recommend it but, since you are so seriously affected, best see someone who has training in handling such matters.

A minister or a priest will do it for free. But a phsycologist is a comfortable option.

Do not let this fester. Do it now.

Be well

I've seen my fair share of gore and Franc's advice is sound.

I also agree with bczoom in that I doubt what you saw after a month was human flesh and blood. The scene would have been cleaned up by the responders and mother nature.

Take Franc's advice and please seek help. Human beings are social animals for a reason. We love to share our joy but by sharing our pain with others we also diminish it. Get well.
 

Angelface

New member
Thank you everyone for the support and advice. This is helping me in more ways than I can explain. It is such a relief to get this out and talk about it. It's been hard to hold it in...

I do need to clarify something here however. For one, this was NOT a month later. It was a few days after the accident. The temps here where far below freezing and never went above freezing for that whole week. I know for a fact what I had witnessed. I truly wish that it was just fluid from the bus.. as morbid and horrible as this sounds... My boyfriend, which please I don't condone this or agree with it in any matter and of course questioning his personal mentality.. took pictures and stored them on this computer. I will not post them on here to prove a point. I also don't think it's respectfully right or think that this would go as far as me personally e-mailing a few photos to members here who still question this. I just ask to be trusted on this. I have no idea why he did, or why he has kept them on here. This was something I wanted to avoid.

I also am posting this because it's been a few weeks now and still dealing with it. That's why I am asking for help. Because I can't get myself to talk to anyone in my personal life without ashamed that I got into the situation in the first place.

Now I am sorry if I am coming out a little aggressive as well as defensive... But I just want to be taken seriously because it is hurting me and and the support given here is really a HUGE step forward here. I can;t even express how much I would love to thank you all for this amount of support.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Angelface, accidents hold a morbid curiosity for some. You are obviously not one of them.

If talking about it on this board has helped, imagine the relief of talking to your preacher or a trained professional. Someone who can offer the physical comfort of holding your hand or putting an arm around your shoulder while listening to your story.

Please get help. We worry about you. :flowers:
 

SShepherd

New member
Heh, been there...many times
The worst was seeing my father dead, I won't go into details.
Seeing other people dead never really botherd me until after that.
There's a saying, "what has been seen cannot be unseen" and it's true.
I guess the only thing you can do is learn how to cope with it. There are greif counceling and people who deal with PTSD that might help, or you have to learn how to accept the morbid reality if death.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
Around here an accident scene of that magnitude would be completely cordoned off and 100% cleaned up before the last of the responders left the scene. As I would assume to be the case most everywhere.

I am sorry, and I am trying to be very polite here given the nature of the circumstances, however something does not sound right here.

I will leave it at that and move along now. :mellow:
 

Kane

New member
To many people (those in health care, for instance) human flesh and bone is no different than animal flesh and bone, right down to the T-bone steak on a hot platter.

But to the rest of us, the dark stigma of seeing visceral remnants of human tragedy can be traumatic.

It's all a matter of perspective.
.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
God bless you Angelface. Best wishes for working your way through this. I sure do not think less or bad of your BF for taking pics. It's a guy thing. I very well might have done the same if i were there. Morbid curiosity.

Those who have responded have given you excellent advise. I do hope you will talk with your minister/priest about all this. It will help. He or She can then advise if professional help might be needed. You will learn to live with all this one way or the other. The hardest way is doing it all alone. You've already stepped off of that trail by talking of it here. For your own peace of mind I hope you will set up a private meeting with a member of the clergy. Just like this has helped you, that will help you even more. Best wishes!!!!!!
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
BC IS RIGHT!!!

Angelface,

I don't know if this will be as comforting as the other replies but it may quell your thoughts of what you saw.

I don't believe that there would be any human flesh remains after such an incident. Whatever wasn't cleaned up by people at the scene would easily have been cleaned up by mom nature in a matter of days. Be it scavenger birds or animals, there wouldn't be anything left after a month. Could it have been oils or such from the vehicle? Hydraulic fluid in particular is red in color. What you saw that you believe could have been flesh may have been pieces of insulation that have been soaked and laying flat.

I do not know if this will help , But I think since you were looking at a crash site your mind may have played tricks on you .
Please let me explain.

I still own a Funeral Home in my old state . WE were the Coroners for the county . I am also a license Funeral Director . That may come as a surprize to some here since I usually only talk about my Construction back ground .

As a Coroner part of your job is to clean the site after all police work is finished . NO BODY PARTS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE WOULD BE ALLOW TO REMAIN on site .Thats the law !

I believe this was a party bus of some sort . They always have trays of food/meat for the riders . The pieces of Skin/ Meat ,I am sure were just that , FOOD . The blood is easier to explain . Most of those buses now run with a Allison Automatic Transmission which uses GALLONS of red oil . It looks a lot like blood. If it spills , it goes everywhere . It soaks into the ground and even looks worst . I have seen this many times and yes it looks like blood .

Your mind expected you to see something distubing . IT happens more than you know .
Still a good person to sit down with and talk about this will help put the bad experience in the right place .
I hope this helps .

May you Sleep well , little girl .
 

Angelface

New member
Around here an accident scene of that magnitude would be completely cordoned off and 100% cleaned up before the last of the responders left the scene. As I would assume to be the case most everywhere.

I am sorry, and I am trying to be very polite here given the nature of the circumstances, however something does not sound right here.

I will leave it at that and move along now. :mellow:

100% cleaned up.....?

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Without the risk of getting in trouble on this website here, I have not decided to post the more graphic images right now... Honestly why would I lie about something like this? I respect the opinions of others, but I am just trying to understand why I would make something like this up. Obviously you have no idea how sloppy ODOT is.
 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
Angelface, no one is suggesting you've made any of this up; far from it. We know you are describing exactly what your
mind tells you you saw. However, I think what you saw may not be what your mind says you saw. This is NOT a knock;
this phenomenon is well known and very common.

If the bloody things you saw but won't post (and I do understand that reluctance) match the blood on the snow in
the pictures you did post, you mind may have fooled you; the red in those shots is definitely automotive fluid, not human
blood. The differences are clear to those of us who have seen more than our share of ugly death.

None of that is going to help you much, even if you believe it intellectually, when your gut tells you something different.
The suggestion others have made is one I endorse wholeheartedly: talk to someone who can reach out and touch
you if that is needed. A psychologist can be a great help in dealing with these things - and that is personal experience
talking. Vietnam left me with some serious issues and a spending time with psych is the reason I'm still functioning at all.

Seek help; it is a sign of strength, not weakness. And know that we are here for you as well. :flowers:

 

Angelface

New member
then why in every single area we seen the fluid that would be a spray painted number? also why when you look at the just after crash scene photos from the media the body bag match up with the area that we seen it then?
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
AF . No news photo men would have been let anywhere near the scene during the investigation . They may have tried to shoot some pictures with a telephoto lens to get a shot of body bags , but I doubt any newspaper work print them . How did you come in procession of pictures showing body bags ??

I know you believe in what you think you saw . But, believe me . Not you , not your BF , Not anyone would get near the scene until it was cleared and ALL HUMAN TISSUE was cleaned up .There are rules and laws about this . Believe me , I was the guy doing the clean up of human remains and it is not something anyone takes lightly.
You certainly saw crash debris but I strongly believe your mind is playing a trick on you .

But do seek help through your church .
 

Kane

New member
Pardon my frankness, but any tissue overlooked during the day would be dealt with expertly by the vermin and scavengers at night.
 

Angelface

New member
There was many aerial photos from local news minutes after the crash... If you read the reports, many where ejected from the bus as it flipped onto the rocks below. Anyways I am not going to further debate or discuss this. I really do appreciated the advice here given and it has been taken with great consideration. Please lock this thread....
 

tommu56

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
As an ex firefighter I can say keep talking to some one about it.

The kids in accidents tore at my heart the old person smoking in bed not so much but it still is tough.

Keep a dialog going with some one it will get better.
Volunteer at your local fire co or ambulance squad.
At least talk to them they should have contacts that might help.

tom
 
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