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GM's upcoming I.P.O. ~Taxpayers get a 'royal screwing'

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Get ready get 'royally screwed' by the Gubmint in the upcoming Gubmint Motors IPO that is coming up just in time for the election cycle so the Democrats can proclaim a success. Oh but wait, its not really a success. Despite claims of short term success there is a whole lot of UNFUNDED DEBT looming on the GM horizon in the form of pension obligations that were not renegotiated (thanks to the fact that a heavy handed gubmit loves unions and unions now own 16% of the company stock).

Yes folks, there is a sucker born every minute. Let's see how many buy into the GM debacle.

Obama's 'Mission Accomplished' Moment At GM
Shikha Dalmia, 08.30.10, 12:21 PM EDT
The company's politically motivated IPO could jeopardize taxpayer ''investment.''

The General Motors IPO, the second largest ever, is arguably this decade's most hyped financial event. But it might also turn out to be this decade's biggest financial fiasco. Its timing is driven not by the financial needs of the company-- or the interests of taxpayers who are poised to get royally screwed--but the election-year needs of the Obama administration.

. . .

For starters, although it managed to negotiate lower wages and benefits from its unionized workers during bankruptcy last year, it did not get meaningful relief from its pension and health care obligations. That's because its bankruptcy was orchestrated by a union-friendly administration that changed the normal rules of the game that would have required GM's unsecured debtors--such as the United Auto Workers--to forgo most of their claims. That didn't happen in this case, so the company has unfunded pension obligations to the tune of $27 billion whose bill is due in 2014. Long term, this puts it at a major competitive disadvantage

. . .

Investors might overlook this if the company were otherwise sound and on a growth trajectory. That, however, is not the case. Indeed, in its application to the Securities and Exchange Commission--which, guess what, will come through just in time to make an IPO possible before the November elections!--GM admits that its "disclosure controls and procedures and internal control over financial reporting are currently not effective." And this "could materially affect our financial condition and ability to carry out our business plan."

. . .

GM's European Opel unit, which failed to obtain a viable bidder or a bailout from the German government, remains a cash-guzzler, having lost over a billion dollars since the company emerged from bankruptcy last year. Most crucially, however, J.D. Powers last week lowered its auto sales forecast for the rest of the year as well as 2011 . . .
Read the remainder at FORBES => http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/30/ge...hikha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellatest
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
This really comes as no surprise. The devil within me hopes this whole thing blows up in their faces and the company goes down the tubes, but the other side of me feels some compassion for the everyday worker who will ultimately get screwed. The fat cats always walk away with a pile of cash. One has to wonder if they thought they could hide the details of all their problems from the investment community, and one also has to wonder if this is being driven by the no-business-experience Obama administration, and not the GM Board. The later would not surprise me, as Barry and the gang have a way of being their own worst enemy when it comes to decision making and timing. Kind of like his campaigning success for dems.:yum:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
And just in time for the I.P.O. and the upcoming election cycle is this news from Bloomberg. Sales are falling!!!

U.S. Auto Sales May Hit 28-Year Low as Discounts Flop

U.S. auto sales in August probably were the slowest for the month in 28 years as model-year closeout deals failed to entice consumers concerned the economy is worsening and they may lose their jobs.

Industrywide deliveries, to be released tomorrow, may have reached an annualized rate of 11.6 million vehicles this month, the average of eight analysts’ estimates compiled by Bloomberg. That would be the slowest August since 1982 . . . The rate would be 18 percent below last year’s 14.2 million pace, when the U.S. government’s “cash for clunkers” incentive program boosted sales.

“Home sales are way down, the stock market is way down, the unemployment report is very disappointing and consumer confidence is sputtering,” Jesse Toprak, vice president of industry trends at TrueCar.com, said in an interview. “People just don’t want to make big-ticket purchases . . .

While automakers increased discounts by 1 percent from July to an average of $2,864 per vehicle, sales to individuals probably fell 7 percent. . .
Read the whole story at Bloomberg => http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-28-years-in-august-as-buyers-shun-deals.html
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
Folks got themselves a good case of Obama-itis. it's like hemorrhoids, jock itch and shingles all rolled into one ailment.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
So I ask what will the republicans do since we have two choices only?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
And now this, for those of you who might consider investing in GM:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100901/ap_on_bi_ge/us_auto_sales

GM reports 7 percent sales dip compared with July

DETROIT – General Motors Co.'s August sales dipped 7 percent compared with July as fears about the shaky economy discouraged customers from buying new cars and trucks.
. . .
All automakers report sales figures on Wednesday. Industry analysts say the numbers could fall below 1 million vehicles, making it the worst August in 27 years.​

and


http://www.thestreet.com/story/10850006/1/gm-sales-fall-25-in-august.html?puc=_tscrss
GM Sales Fall 25% in August

General Motors said its sales fell 25% from a year earlier, reflecting tough comparisons with a month when Cash for Clunkers stimulated buying.

August 2010 sales totaled 184,921 vehicles.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
The gubmit's got a plan to boost sales for GM. They've started fucking with Hyundai and investigating them about potential steering column problems. Funny how when someone is doing well, these limp wristed dick weeds start some bullshit commotion to scare people away. Just like the lies about the accelerator pedals with Toyota. Then they drag the top dogs in before their little committees and act like they know what they are talking about. Bunch of ass-hole politicians acting like big shots.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Looks like things are getting worse for GM and the government's scam to offer up an IPO.

GM sales dip casts shadow over IPO
By Bernard Simon in Toronto
Published: September 1 2010 17:03 | Last updated: September 1 2010 20:56

General Motors’ sales in its core US market sagged in August, potentially complicating its bid to drum up investor support for its forthcoming public share issue.

. . .

GM filed a bulky draft prospectus for an initial public offering with US and Canadian regulators last month. The US and Canadian governments hold 72 per cent of GM’s equity.

The document warns that in spite of a pick-up in demand since late last year, “many of the economic and market conditions that drove the [earlier] drop in vehicle sales, including declines in real estate and equity values, increases in unemployment, tightened credit markets, depressed consumer confidence and weak housing markets, continue to impact sales”.

If the recent revival falters, the prospectus warns, “our results of operations and financial condition will be materially adversely affected”.​
Full story at link => http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c740d78c-b5de-11df-a048-00144feabdc0.html
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Today GM sent around an internal memo bragging that they think their IPO ought to go over $30 later this week when it comes out.

First, I didn't know it was this week for their IPO. Second, I wouldn't give them 30 cents per share! I think $30 is crazy.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Realize that the first people to get paid are the Canadians. Then, before the US Government gets paid back for loaning TAXPAYER money to the company, the UNIONS get to be paid for an investment they NEVER made. Yup, the unions put up NO INVESTMENT but they are getting paid by the IPO proceeds before a penny comes back to the taxpayers.

WTF?
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Update

As investors clamored for the shares — they have ordered more than four times the amount on offer — GM increased the number of common shares on offer by a third Wednesday. The revised IPO terms could cut the U.S. government's controlling stake to as little as 33 percent.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I don't get this at all. Didn't the gubmint get the stock by taking it away from the original stockholders? Didn't the gubmint force cancellation of superior loan positions in favor of the union assholes? Now we got an IPO. IPO stands for Initial Purchase Offering. GM stock has been around for decades. What happens to the original stockholders.
This is just another screwing by the head socialist in favor of the UAW. I wouldn't touch this stock.
 

jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
I don't get this at all. Didn't the gubmint get the stock by taking it away from the original stockholders? Didn't the gubmint force cancellation of superior loan positions in favor of the union assholes? Now we got an IPO. IPO stands for Initial Purchase Offering. GM stock has been around for decades. What happens to the original stockholders.
This is just another screwing by the head socialist in favor of the UAW. I wouldn't touch this stock.

IPO = Initial Public Offering.

/ponderous and pedantic comments off.:w00t2:
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
So bottom line .... Is it something to look at as an investment ????
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
Wellll......What have you got to say now ? Its going through the roof ...
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Oh and then there is this, the sale is COSTING taxpayers money.

From Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1827687520101118
Bloom said GM has done the right thing and pricing of $33 per share is a "fair deal" even though the partial sale represents a loss of roughly $9 billion on taxpayers' original investment.
The price is above that $33/share mark which means we may lose something like $7 or $8 BILLION but its still a bad deal for us.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
So bottom line .... Is it something to look at as an investment ????

Do you trust someone when they tell you "Trust me, I'm with the government"? They cornholed me once and I bet this will prove to be a terrible investment over time. Hey, it doesn't bother them one bit that they literally screwed millions of people out of their life's savings. Why would it bother them one bit if they ever feel the need to do it again?

I wouldn't piss on GM if they were on fire. Any questions where I stand on the issue?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
GM may be a good "day trade" but I still question if it is a good "investment."
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Oh and then there is this, the sale is COSTING taxpayers money.

From Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1827687520101118

The price is above that $33/share mark which means we may lose something like $7 or $8 BILLION but its still a bad deal for us.
Unless I don't understand the situation, the government gets $33 per their initial IPO. The current price of $35 and change is the market and the government will not participate.

I will not participate in this scam, but if I did, I would sell short 30 days. My reasoning is this:

There is still the matter of the unfunded pension liability, over 30 billion. None of the governments windfall will go to that matter.
IPO's on average, rise in the excitement, and decline.
The government and the unions still will effectively control GM, and they have already demonstrated a willingness to throw stockholders and lien holders under the bus in deference to the unions.
GM's profitability over the past 3 quarters is questionable at best, and does not, IMO represent true market indicators. Relieving the debt load, rebates and incentives, all contribute to the profit, and are one time line items.

Not sure is futures are available as yet.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I agree 100%.
Just for the hell of it, ask your broker what your old shares of GM are now worth.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
GM may be a good "day trade" but I still question if it is a good "investment."

Hey, China bought 500 million worth. Perhaps this is just the first move in GM becoming a ChiCom company. If you recall, pre-bankrupt, GM sued China from their likeness and logo when China was going to bring their (likely similar quality) Chery cars over here to sell.

One of my good dealer friends went over to China when he was considering buying a Chery franchise. Clearly he's glad he didn't, but he said that Yugo could teach China a thing or two about building cars. In fairness, Chery cars were intended to be "entry level" cars.

Still, I can walk you around and then put my 2005 Impala up on my lift and show you workmanship that would embarrass the sloppiest and most lax Chinese worker. The car rates reasonably high on NTSA crash tests, so I have my middle daughter driving it. However, a quality car it isn't and it is the highest trim level and has the most options you can get on that year Impala. And, yes, I can't hardly keep up with fixing all those options as they fail. Her freaking seat heater quit last week. GM wants you to basically change the seat to fix that problem.

Oh, just to be clear on this car; it was purchased new by my 60 year old aunt who took it in to the selling dealer to have absolutely every maintenance item performed at or before it's prescribed time and the car always sat in a climate controlled garage the entire 50k miles or so she owned it.

Seriously, GM was so cheap that they didn't clear coat the door jams, under the hood or trunk lid, missed with the massive amount of seam sealer used under the car where panels meet. I had to clean all the road grit off and seal about 6 or 8 body seams under the car because the lazy ass worker on the assembly line completely missed sealing where the panels come together and they use what is basically a 3" wide industrial caulk gun. Talk about poor workmanship!
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I love it. All the Gubment's spin machines are on overdrive. Headlines everywhere are saying "GM Stocks Soar After IPO" and stuff like that. Well, as of now, if you bought GM stock at the $35 IPO you would have only lost a dollar per share in the first day. Yeah, that's really soaring to new heights! :yum: Suckers!!
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Hot dammit, I knew it!! GM is now claiming, in print no less, that their stock went up 3.6% the first day! WTF?! It opened at $35 and closed at $34.19. How the hell is that a 3.6% (and is falling in after hours trading) increase??? You wanna know what they are doing?

GM is claiming their stock went up 3.6%....from the $33.00 price they were going to open with. OMG! Do they have Obama's spin machine working for them full time? I don't think the Clinton spin machine would have been dumb enough to try that one! :yum:


*edit*
Oh yeah, my "real" GM stock, you know, before they screwed everyone, closed at a whopping $0.18 a share. How would you like to be a recent GM retiree with almost a million shares of GM stock in your name that you earned over the 45 years you worked there and have what you thought was several million to retire on end up being a few hundred dollars? Whoohoo
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
On the radio today NPR made a statement that I only caught part of. The statement was that in order for GM to get the amount of money they wanted for this IPO they needed to sell the remaining stocks that did not sell at $50.00 each. So are they short of expectations or what. I wonder what the stock will be worth in the days coming?
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I just don't get this at all. After an hour on the internet trying to figure out how this transaction went down, I am more confused than when I started. Here is how I see it:
GM is stating on their web site that the stock offerred is an PO (not IPO), which means that GM sold authorized but not distributed new stock. The strike price was $33. The money would accrue to GM and there would be more shares outstanding. No mention of what GM will do with the money. (They also appear to have sold some preferred, but I have heard nothing of that from other than the GM website)
If this is true, then the government would get no money from the sale of the stock, as none of theirs would have been sold. The ownership position would change, but hopefully the value of the equity position should not change due to the large cash influx and related in assets, or reduction of liabilities.
If the government offered some of their stock for sale at a strike price of $33, then the money would accrue to the government, but the issue would be a straight sale, not a PO.
If the government sold their stock, then their voting and ownership position would change the amount of their reduction of stock, but total shares outstanding would remain the same. Hopefully, the equity position would remain the same or increase
If GM sold the stock, then the government would retain the same amount of stock as previous, and their position would be diluted in terms of ownership. However, this would also dilute the ownership position of the UAW. I have heard nothing of this.
The other thing I cannot find is the commission paid to the two firms handling the transaction. If, say, I sold my shares of stock to Al, there would be two rather small commissions involved. I'm betting that JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley, the two houses involved, are getting more than two commissions.
I've got to be missing or not understanding something. Can somebody help me?
 
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