Intolerance

in line with the other thread on 'mass murder, why does it happen?'

I find logging on to forums and trying to have a laugh is a great release -especially when you live overseas, you can connect with anyone from anywhere at anytime. It's fab.

But from my experience, people are so quick to react (in a very negative way) and people are not patient and kind like they used to be. EVEN ON THE INTERNET people will bully you.

why is everyone so intolerant?
bullies=====> <====== me

I can tell you that one of the big reasons I am intolerant in certain situations is not because I think that people shouldn't have differing opinions from mine - but because our current society and government is setup so that if persons with opinions different from mine gain power - they have the ability to FORCE me to live my life according to their opinions.

If we lived in a more libertarian society - where the govt. was not so infested into our daily lives - I could live my life as I please - and as long as I was not harming others what would it matter? Our current socialistic society and government makes this impossible - I am constantly forced to pay for other persons "opinions" and "ideas" thru taxes and regulation that I may or may not agree with.

So my intolerance for any alternating viewpoints from my own comes from the fact that I believe that in the realm of societal or political matters I have a LOT to lose from letting people whose take on the world differs from mine gain any traction with their ideas.

If you are talking about other things like which is better - Chevy or Ford, Kubota or John Deere, Harley or Jap bikes, Glock or Sig , etc. - you won't find me jumping down people people's throats or denigrating their opinion - because in the end it does not affect me. If somebody likes Fords - and I like Chevys' - in the end it doesn't really matter so much. You can have your opinions - and I can have mine - and in the end we can go our own separate ways and both be happy.

If you are going to argue that the government should supply welfare to all who need it - and I am going to argue they shouldn't - well then you are going to have a fight on your hands - because your opinion will cost me money - and substantially affect my life. And if you opinion is the govt. should supply welfare - you are more than likely to be looking to get some of it - so you are in effect picking my pocket. In a case like this you are going to get a fight - I am going to denigrate you, assault your character - argue against your opinion - and generally try to trash you in whatever way is possible. But this "intolerance" as you might call it began with an attempt to pick my pocket and take my hard earned money from me under the threat of jail (try not paying your taxes to see what I mean) - so you have to ask yourself - is it really "intolerance" or did you start a fight and are just unwilling to call a spade a spade?

Giving to those who need it is not wrong - taking from others - to give to those who need it - is. There seem to be a lot of very morally confused people in our world today who confuse the two.

intolerance= is it about taxes and goverment heads?

April 2007: 32 people are killed in two shooting incidents in the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia.

October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman shoots dead at least five girls at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, before killing himself

September 2006: Gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, then kills himself; two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin

November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators

March 2005: Minnesota schoolboy kills nine, then shoots himself

May 2004: Four people injured in shooting at a school in Maryland

April 2003: Teenager shoots dead head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself

March 2001: Pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students

February 2000: Six-year-old girl shot dead by five-year-old classmate in Michigan

November 1999: Thirteen-year-old girl shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico

May 1999: Student injures six pupils in shoot-out in Georgia

April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado

June 1998: Two adults hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia

May 1998: Fifteen-year-old boy shoots himself in the head after taking a girl hostage

May 1998: Fifteen-year-old shoots dead two students in school cafeteria in Oregon

April 1998: Fourteen-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania

March 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, kill four girls and a teacher in Arkansas

December 1997: Fourteen-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky

October 1997: Sixteen-year-old boy stabs mother, then shoots dead two students at school in Mississippi, injuring several others

teenagers Intolerance

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1952869.stm

same again.

What is your point???? Crazy people do crazy things and innocent people are killed or harmed? This has been going on since the beginning of time, and man has never figured out a way to stop it. The only difference from an individual doing the killing and the state doing the killing, is that one is call murder, and the other is called war. Pick your words if you like, but in the end, it is all the same..... human lives are lost and it is up to the survivors to bury them and continue on with life.

people don't just wake up and decide to kill another person for no reason.
Just because it's been happening for a long time isn't a valid excuse for it to continue.
It's hatred, greed, intolerance.

ImInnocent said:

people don't just wake up and decide to kill another person for no reason.
Just because it's been happening for a long time isn't a valid excuse for it to continue.
It's hatred, greed, intolerance.

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I think that in the VT case, and possibly in others you quoted, it was insanity.

well, that done then!
he was INSANE. There you have it! Insanity. that was the reason he woke up and killed 33 people. i n s a n i t y

Good. Now you understand.

ImInnocent said:

It's hatred, greed, intolerance.

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First, I don't see any evidence to support your statement that the fault lies with greed or intolerance. Hatred perhaps, but that is such a vague term it could be applied in many ways.


Also seems to me that society may be getting to be so tolerant of deviant, vile, abnormal and other behaviors that we are forgetting that there may be consequences to extreme tolerance. One of those consequences may be having the insane act out violently?

It is now common to see bumper stickers that say things like:


And we tolerate those things but we get upset when children swear like sailors in public. We are so worried about being "fair" to our children that we no longer allow our teachers to use red ink to mark mistakes on their papers because it might damage the children's self esteem, but in the job world if you screw up you get fired. Anyone listen to HIP HOP music? I do. I listen to all sorts of music and I'd have to say that nothing less than 80% of the HIP HOP music glorifies sex or violence. Video Games, TV and movies all show very graphic sex/violent acts. What about dress & conduct codes in (or out) of school . . . parents allow little girls dress like wanton sluts, kids get condoms from the Jr. High School nurse and we see illegitimate birth rates, STDs and the incidents of rape all increase.

Are we really doing a good service to our kids by being so tolerant?

I know I sound like a cranky old man. But maybe it is time to become LESS tolerant of abnormal behavior?

B_Skurka said:

First, I don't see any evidence to support your statement that the fault lies with greed or intolerance. Hatred perhaps, but that is such a vague term it could be applied in many ways.


Also seems to me that society may be getting to be so tolerant of deviant, vile, abnormal and other behaviors that we are forgetting that there may be consequences to extreme tolerance. One of those consequences may be having the insane act out violently?

It is now common to see bumper stickers that say things like:

If you don't like the way I drive, go **** yourself.
or
To report my bad driving, dial 1-800-eat-shit
​

And we tolerate those things but we get upset when children swear like sailors in public. We are so worried about being "fair" to our children that we no longer allow our teachers to use red ink to mark mistakes on their papers because it might damage the children's self esteem, but in the job world if you screw up you get fired. Anyone listen to HIP HOP music? I do. I listen to all sorts of music and I'd have to say that nothing less than 80% of the HIP HOP music glorifies sex or violence. Video Games, TV and movies all show very graphic sex/violent acts. What about dress & conduct codes in (or out) of school . . . parents allow little girls dress like wanton sluts, kids get condoms from the Jr. High School nurse and we see illegitimate birth rates, STDs and the incidents of rape all increase.

Are we really doing a good service to our kids by being so tolerant?

I know I sound like a cranky old man. But maybe it is time to become LESS tolerant of abnormal behavior?

Click to expand...

Crickets !!!!

In one clip, Cho says: "You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today. But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."

"You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. And you want to inject as much misery in our lives because you can, just because you can. You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."

It seems to be a very planned and methodical act, which is the exact opposite of insanity.
Cho also explained how he was always teased for years (e.g. his accent) and complained how girls rejected him over and over. Hence, he became very depressed.
I started this post to question 'intolerance' and all I've read in the replies thus far has been even more intolerance.
So again, I ask: why are people so intolerant?

ImInnocent said:

I started this post to question 'intolerance' and all I've read in the replies thus far has been even more intolerance.
So again, I ask: why are people so intolerant?[/B]

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Well Hell , so much for Crickets !Now We get Cyber farts !

ImInnocent said:

It seems to be a very planned and methodical act, which is the exact opposite of insanity.

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No it is not. You are confused on what forms insanity takes. You imply, with your statement, that insane people cannot plan their actions. That is an incorrect assumption.

ImInnocent said:

Cho also explained how he was always teased for years (e.g. his accent) and complained how girls rejected him over and over. Hence, he became very depressed.

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Perhaps he was teased, perhaps he was not. We don't know. He complained about girls, but he was also a known stalker, he was reported to have been very strange, perhaps that is why he was teased and why girls rejected him? Depression is one of the signs of some forms of insanity.

ImInnocent said:

I started this post to question 'intolerance' and all I've read in the replies thus far has been even more intolerance.
So again, I ask: why are people so intolerant?

Click to expand...

Perhaps you pose the wrong question? Perhaps your thesis that 'intolerance is the problem' diametrically opposed to the facts? Salmon swim upstream and then die, many die without mating. Perhaps your question is swimming upstream and finding no mate because it is fundamentally flawed in what you ask?

Perhaps the better question is something like?: Has our continued & increasing tolerance of aberrant behavior caused the violence we now see in society?

Seems to me we had "insane asylums" where we would have locked up people like Cho. Those were considered not politically correct. So the insane were released the system was dismantled. We now tolerate bums living in cities who wander around and urinate on themselves. We now tolerate students like Cho and no longer share their mentally ill actions with the police because doing so violates his civil rights.

You can keep asking your question, but I don't think too many rational people will fall for your incorrect assumptions and give you the answers you are looking for. It is obvious that we are a vastly more tolerant society than we used to be but you seem to believe that we are less tolerant. We are getting more tolerant as a society every day of every year and the problems seem to be getting worse. Perhaps that is the cause and effect!

In criminal law, insanity may serve as a defense by excuse for a person's criminal acts. In most U.S. states, legal insanity is not sufficient to avoid a guilty verdict, rather to be not guilty by reason of insanity it must be demonstrated that the defendant could not tell the difference between right and wrong.

Insanity, or madness, is a general term for a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.

In popular culture, "insane" could also refer to something extremely foolish, while persons may be deemed "insane" if their behavior strongly deviates from accepted social norms. The term is typically negative, but departure from established norms may also be seen as a positive quality; in this case, being "insane" is being daringly unconventional or individualistic.

The very fact that Cho taped and recorded demonstrates that it was, in fact, premeditated, planned and methodical. He KNEW the difference between right and wrong. He was DEPRESSED -not insane. To say that Cho was 'insane' is, yet again, a lame excuse.

Depression, or a depressed mood, refers to a state of melancholia, unhappiness or sadness, or to a relatively minor downturn in mood that may last only a few hours or days. This is generally seen as quite distinct from the diagnosis of clinical depression. However, if the depressed mood lasts at least two weeks, and is accompanied by other symptoms that interfere with daily living, it may be seen as a symptom of clinical depression, dysthymia or some other diagnosable mental illness, or alternatively as sub-syndromal depression.

The depressed mood is adaptive in that it leads the person towards altering his thought patterns and behavior or way of living or else continues until such a time as he does so. It can be argued that depression and clinical depression is in fact the refusal of a person to heed the call to change from within his own mind. For example, in mourning it is essential that one must eventually let go of the departed and return to the world and other relationships.

If you had seen or heard Cho's manifesto/tapes, you'd know that he was teased/taunted most his life while living in the States. His lack of communication with people is a consequence of his depressed state that an altered behaviour (i.e. stalking) began.

HOW RIDICULOUS for you to state: Depression is one of the signs of some forms of insanity.

ImInnocent said:

In criminal law, insanity may serve as a defense by excuse for a person's criminal acts. In most U.S. states, legal insanity is not sufficient to avoid a guilty verdict, rather to be not guilty by reason of insanity it must be demonstrated that the defendant could not tell the difference between right and wrong.

Insanity, or madness, is a general term for a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.

In popular culture, "insane" could also refer to something extremely foolish, while persons may be deemed "insane" if their behavior strongly deviates from accepted social norms. The term is typically negative, but departure from established norms may also be seen as a positive quality; in this case, being "insane" is being daringly unconventional or individualistic.

The very fact that Cho taped and recorded demonstrates that it was, in fact, premeditated, planned and methodical. He KNEW the difference between right and wrong. He was DEPRESSED -not insane. To say that Cho was 'insane' is, yet again, a lame excuse.

Depression, or a depressed mood, refers to a state of melancholia, unhappiness or sadness, or to a relatively minor downturn in mood that may last only a few hours or days. This is generally seen as quite distinct from the diagnosis of clinical depression. However, if the depressed mood lasts at least two weeks, and is accompanied by other symptoms that interfere with daily living, it may be seen as a symptom of clinical depression, dysthymia or some other diagnosable mental illness, or alternatively as sub-syndromal depression.

The depressed mood is adaptive in that it leads the person towards altering his thought patterns and behavior or way of living or else continues until such a time as he does so. It can be argued that depression and clinical depression is in fact the refusal of a person to heed the call to change from within his own mind. For example, in mourning it is essential that one must eventually let go of the departed and return to the world and other relationships.

If you had seen or heard Cho's manifesto/tapes, you'd know that he was teased/taunted most his life while living in the States. His lack of communication with people is a consequence of his depressed state that an altered behaviour (i.e. stalking) began.

HOW RIDICULOUS for you to state: Depression is one of the signs of some forms of insanity.

Click to expand...

You copy and paste well..... Click here to read the original from Wikipedia.....

ImInnocent said:

HOW RIDICULOUS for you to state: Depression is one of the signs of some forms of insanity.

Click to expand...

Why is it ridiculous when it is true? Depression in and of itself is not insanity. Depression is, however, a sign, of some forms of insanity.

But to argue that Cho was simply just a depressed young man and not insane seems to me to be far more ridiculous.

Wow Junkman, you really have it out for me. I wonder why.
intolerance.

Is there a problem with doing a little research on the internet behind the issue, rather than jump to a biased conclusion? I'm just trying to be objective on the topic at hand - not subjective.

Depression v Insanity

So my roommate has been getting on my nerves lately. So much so, that I went to my doctor two months ago and she prescibed some anti-depressants for me.

But my roommate still refuses to shower.

So last night I stabbed him to death while he was sleeping.

All I need to do now is find a lawyer that will plead my case:

I was insane! I was so depressed rather, INSANE, that I didn't know the difference between right and wrong.

How cool is this!??? I got off scot free!!! because the jury and judge found me insane!

anyway, looking for a roommate? anyone interested?!

Intolerance. Listen to 'depressed' teenagers

SOURCE: http://www.treas.gov/usss/ntac/chicago_sun/default.htm

Deadly Lessons: Part I - School shooters tell why
*Examining the psyche of an adolescent killer
*Listening tips can help boys open up
*Case studies: Secret service findings
*Bullying, tormenting often led to revenge in cases studied
*Thoughts, poetry scream of violence, despair

Deadly Lessons: Part II
*Violence prevention methods may not help
*Shooters usually tell their friends what they are planning


October 16, 2000. Chicago Sun-Times. BILL DEDMAN STAFF REPORTER
WASHINGTON--In their own words, the boys who have killed in America's schools offer a simple suggestion to prevent it from happening again: Listen to us.

"I told everyone what I was going to do," said Evan Ramsey, 16, who killed his principal and a student in remote Bethel, Alaska, in 1997. He told so many students about his hit list that his friends crowded the library balcony to watch. One boy brought a camera. "You're not supposed to be up here," one girl told another. "You're on the list."

Researchers from the Secret Service have completed a detailed analysis of 37 school shootings. They reviewed case files and interviewed 10 of the shooters. The Secret Service shared the results of its Safe School Initiative with the Chicago Sun-Times.

As it turns out, kids at school usually knew what would happen because the shooters had told them, but the bystanders didn't warn anyone. That disturbing pattern gives hope: If kids plan, there is time to intervene. If kids tell, teachers or parents might be able to learn what a student is planning--if they take time to ask.

Together, the school shooters make a diverse class portrait. They are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native Alaskan. They were in public schools and Christian schools. Few had a mental illness, although many were desperate and depressed.

The shooters do share one characteristic: They are all boys.

As a Secret Service consultant says, "If every parent went away from this, not worrying that their boy is going to kill someone, but listening and paying attention to depression, we'd be better off."

Is it INSANITY that drives these boys to violence?

SOURCE: http://www.treas.gov/usss/ntac/chicago_sun/case15.htm

October 15, 2000
Chicago Sun-Times
BILL DEDMAN STAFF REPORTER

"Bullying, tormenting often led to revenge in cases studied"

These cases of school shootings were studied by the Secret Service. The names and details here come from public records.

Anthony Barbaro, 18, Olean, N.Y., Dec. 30, 1974. Honor student brought guns and homemade bombs to school, set off the fire alarm, and shot at janitors and firemen who responded. SWAT team found him asleep, with headphones playing "Jesus Christ Superstar." Hanged himself while awaiting trial.

John Christian, 13, Austin, Texas, May 19, 1978. Son of George Christian, former press secretary to LBJ, honor student, shot and killed teacher.

Robin Robinson, 13, Lanett, Ala., Oct. 15, 1978. After a disagreement with a student, he was paddled by the principal. He returned to school with a gun; when told he would be paddled again, he shot and wounded the principal.

James Alan Kearbey, 14, Goddard, Kan., Jan. 21, 1985. Killed the principal and three others in his junior high school. Said he was bullied and beaten by students for years.

Kristofer Hans, 14, Lewiston, Mont., Dec. 4, 1986. Failing French, tried to kill the teacher but shot and killed her substitute. Injured a vice principal and two students. Had threatened to kill the French teacher.

Nathan Faris, 12, DeKalb, Mo., March 2, 1987. Teased about his chubbiness, Faris shot a classmate, then shot himself to death.

Nicholas Elliott, 16, Virginia Beach, Va., Dec. 16., 1988. Went to school with a semiautomatic pistol, 200 rounds of ammunition and three firebombs. He wounded one teacher, killed another and fired on a student who had called him a racist name.

Cordell "Cory" Robb, 15, Orange County, Calif., Oct. 5, 1989. Took kids hostage in drama class with a shotgun and semiautomatic pistol with the goal of getting his stepfather to school so he could kill him; the stepfather planned to move the family. Shot a student who taunted him. Had told several students what he planned.

Eric Houston, 20, Olivehurst, Calif., May 1, 1992. Former student was upset over losing a job because he had not graduated. Killed three students and a social studies teacher who had given him a failing grade; injured 13 people. Held students hostage.

John McMahan, 14, Napa, Calif., May 14, 1992. Bullied by other boys, he opened fire with a .357 in first period science class, wounding two students.

Wayne Lo, 18, Great Barrington, Mass., Dec. 14, 1992. At an exclusive college-prep boarding school, Lo killed two people and wounded four others. School administrators knew he had received a package from an ammo company and had decided to let him keep it. A student tried to warn counselors.

Scott Pennington, 17, Grayson, Ky., Jan. 18, 1993. Held his high school English class hostage after killing his teacher and killing a custodian.

Leonard McDowell, 21, Wauwatosa, Wis., Dec. 1, 1993. Former student killed an associate principal who had handled his long history of disciplinary problems.

Clay Shrout, 17, Union, Ky., May 26, 1994. Killed his family, then sat in class with a gun before surrendering.

Nicholas Atkinson, 16, Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 12, 1994. Suspended student shot and wounded assistant principal, killed himself.

Chad Welcher, 16, Manchester, Iowa, Nov. 8. 1994. Fired two shotgun blasts into the principal's office, hitting a secretary.

John Sirola, 14, Redlands, Calif., Jan. 23, 1995. Shot principal in the face and shoulder; died of self-inflicted wound, which may have been accidental.

Toby Sincino, 16, Blackville, S.C., Oct. 12, 1995. Sincino was picked on by students. A week before the shooting, he had been suspended for making an obscene gesture. He shot and wounded a math teacher, killed another math teacher, then killed himself.

Jamie Rouse, 17, Lynnville, Tenn., Nov. 15, 1995. Upset over failing grade, fired at teachers, killing one, wounding another. When firing at a third teacher, he hit a female student, who died. Had told five friends that he planned to bring the rifle to school.

Barry Loukaitis, 14, Moses Lake, Wash., Feb. 2, 1996. Walked into algebra class with a hunting rifle, two handguns and 78 rounds of ammunition. Killed the teacher and two students, wounded a third. One of the students killed had teased him.

Name and location withheld by investigators, 16, Feb. 8, 1996. Wounded a student and killed himself. He had tried to commit suicide in the past. Other students knew he had been asking for a gun but didn't report it.

Anthony Gene Rutherford, 18; Jonathan Dean Moore, 15; Joseph Stanley Burris, 15; Patterson, Mo., March 25, 1996. The three killed a student at a rural Christian school for troubled youths. They thought he might intervene in an attack they planned on the school.

David Dubose Jr., 16, Scottsdale, Ga., Sept. 25, 1996. A student at the school for less than a week, Dubose shot and killed a teacher.

Evan Ramsey, 16, Bethel, Alaska, Feb. 19, 1997. Killed the principal and one student, wounding two, with a shotgun. Had told many students what he would do.

Luke Woodham, 16, Pearl, Miss., Oct. 1, 1997. Killed his mother, then killed two students and wounded seven. Was urged on by other boys.

Michael Carneal, 14, West Paducah, Ky., Dec. 1, 1997. Used a stolen pistol to kill three students and wound five in a prayer group, including his ex-girlfriend.

Joseph "Colt" Todd, 14, Stamps, Ark., Dec. 15, 1997. Shot two students. Said he was humiliated by teasing.

Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, Jonesboro, Ark., March 24, 1998. The pair killed four female students and a teacher after pulling the fire alarm. They had stolen the guns from Golden's grandfather.

Andrew Wurst, 14, Edinboro, Pa., April 25, 1998. Killed a teacher and wounded three students at a dinner-dance. He had talked of killing people and taking his own life.

Jacob Davis, 18, Fayetteville, Tenn., May 19, 1998. An honor student three days before graduation, Davis used a rifle to shoot another boy in a dispute over a girl.

ip Kinkel, 15, Springfield, Ore., May 21, 1998. After being expelled for bringing a gun to school, Kinkel killed his parents, then two students in the cafeteria, wounding 25. Father had given him the Glock.

Shawn Cooper, 16, Notus, Idaho, April 16, 1999. He rode the bus to school with a shotgun wrapped in a blanket. He pointed the gun at a secretary and students, then shot twice into a door and at the floor. He had a death list, but told one girl he wouldn't hurt anyone. He surrendered.

Eric Harris, 17, and Dylan Klebold, 18, near Littleton, Colo., April 20, 1999. The pair killed 12 students and one teacher, wounded 23 students, and killed themselves. They had planned far more carnage at Columbine High School, spreading 31 explosive devices. They had detailed plans, including hand signals for "use bomb" and "suicide (point to head w gun)."

Thomas Solomon, 15, Conyers, Ga., May 20, 1999. Fired at the legs and feet of students, injuring six. Had turned sullen after being dumped by his girlfriend, and had talked of bringing a gun to school.

Victor Cordova Jr., 12, Deming, N.M., Nov. 19, 1999. Shot a student in the head, killing her.

Seth Trickey, 13, Fort Gibson, Okla., Dec. 6, 1999. Wounded four students outside Fort Gibson Middle School. Surrendered.

Nathaniel Brazill, 13, Lake Worth, Fla., May 26, 2000. Had been sent home for horseplay with water balloons on the last day of school. Returned with a gun and killed a teacher.

Examining the psyche of an adolescent killer

http://www.treas.gov/usss/ntac/chicago_sun/shoot15.htm


..."It's real hard to live with the things I've done," said Luke Woodham, now 19, who killed two students in Pearl, Miss., in 1997.

The researchers found that killers do not "snap." They plan. They acquire weapons. They tell others what they are planning. These children take a long, planned, public path toward violence.

And there is no profile.

Some lived with both parents in "an ideal, All-American family." Some were children of divorce, or lived in foster homes. A few were loners, but most had close friends.

Few had disciplinary records. Some had honor roll grades and were in Advanced Placement courses; some were failing. Few showed a change in friendships or interest in school.

"What caused these shootings, I don't pretend to know, and I don't know if it's knowable," said Robert A. Fein, a forensic psychologist with the Secret Service. "We're looking for different pieces of the puzzle, not for whether kids wore black clothes"...

And perhaps if we were LESS tolerant of the bullying. . .
and perhaps if we arrested them when they made real threats like "Had threatened to kill the French teacher" . . .
and perhaps if we were LESS tolerant of people who "had talked of killing people" . . .
and perhaps if we didn't expel them but actually arrested them when they are "expelled for bringing a gun to school" . . .
and perhaps if we were LESS tolerant when they "tell others what they are planning" . . .
and perhaps, instead of being tolerant of odd activities and if we had acted when "A student tried to warn counselors" . . .
and perhaps if we were LESS tolerant and arrested these kids when "He returned to school with a gun; when told he would be paddled ". . .
then perhaps we would not have some of these problems.

But we are told, as society that we must tolerate the acting out of children who exhibit individualist behavior. In fact it is mandated in the schools that we allow it. Seems to me we are way too tolerant. These people are showing signs of insanity. They need to be treated. Preferably locked up and treated.

B_Skurka said:

They need to be treated. Preferably locked up and treated.

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You are correct, but the ACLU fought in the 1970's to have all these people released, since many were being held against their will, because they were considered to be a menace to society, but hadn't committed any crimes as yet. Once released, they did commit crimes against other citizens, and as such criminals they were sent to the state penitentiaries that were not prepared to handle them as mental patients. Today, many of them still languish in those facilities as repeat felons with no chance of parole, rehabilitation, or psychological services. All of this is a direct result of a small group of people that feel that they know what is best for the society as a whole, and push the envelope until they finally win in court.

If
perhaps
If
perhaps

what if???
what if???

Did you know Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the students that killed 12 students and 1 teacher at Columbine High School, were relentlessly bullied up until their deaths?

In the majority of cases where children grow up in a healthy environment they are unlikely to turn to crime. Children need good role models. They need to be nurtured by parents, receiving love and support. Children benefit from being able to participate socially and from attaining educational achievement and employability.
However,
parents are unable to protect their children from all risks. Away from the security of the home children may be bullied or victimised at school, which may affect them psychologically. They may be drawn in to drug or alcohol misuse, which is can lead to crime. Peer pressure can influence children in all areas and parents are unable to control who their children make friends with.
Some children do not live in a healthy environment. They may face a combination of problems that result in persistently poor outcomes in terms of educational achievement, health and criminal activity. Parental and sibling involvement in crime, inadequate parental supervision or domestic violence and abuse are risk factors of future criminal behaviour.

So what? lock everyone up?

HHMMM I was bullied as a kid. I dont think anyone hasnt been bullied at one point or another. But It never crossed my mind to kill anyone. Funny though Friday I go and baby sit in an office because someone threatend to shoot everyone when he was fired. I will be armed concieled of course. If a company can do this for its employees why cant a school do it for its children? Like have on campus police? Why not?

ImInnocent said:

If
perhaps
If
perhaps

what if???
what if???

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Apparently you missed what I wrote, I clearly stated: then perhaps we would not have some of these problems.

ImInnocent said:

where children grow up in a healthy environment they are unlikely to turn to crime. Children need good role models. . .

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So what you are saying is when we show positive behavior then the results are likely to be positive. That seems to agree with what I have consistently stated all along. We should not tolerate bad behavior, we have become too tolerant.

ImInnocent said:

Away from the security of the home children may be bullied or victimised at school, which may affect them psychologically. They may be drawn in to drug or alcohol misuse, which is can lead to crime. Peer pressure can influence children . . .

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Here you point out that bad behavior yields bad results. When we tolerate bad behavior, we get bad results. Let me state again, perhaps more clearly, we should not tolerate the bizarre behavior that we do. When we see someone wearing a shirt that reads "If you can read this shirt the Bitch fell off" or "That's MR. ASSHOLE to you" we may chuckle, but our kids see that and we wonder where our children learned to swear. We allow our children to listen to music that glorifies the sexual objectification of women and music videos show scantily clad girls grinding on the dance floor and we wonder why rape, sexual assault, sexually permissive behavior and teen pregnancies are increasing. Children without a father show a higher rate of criminal activity and violence, but we tolerate lesbian adoption, rampant divorce and out of wedlock births. There are dozens, if not hundreds of other examples we could cite, some were already mentioned earlier in this thread.

Again, maybe we should be less tolerant. If we were less tolerant, it is likely that we would have fewer problems.

Snowcat Operations said:

HHMMM I was bullied as a kid. I dont think anyone hasnt been bullied at one point or another

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Sooner or later your going to have to fight. Try to do it quick and right. If you don't, you will always be bullied.

Bullies are a constant of childhood--in every schoolyard, every class and every neighborhood, it seems there is one kid who is bigger, stronger or meaner and willing to put these traits to work. But in the wake of recent incidents, sociologists, psychologists, teachers and others are re-assessing the common view that bullying is essentially harmless.

There is extreme pain and loneliness caused by bullying and children often react destructively, either by turning the rage inward or by retaliating with lethal violence against their tormenters.

Take a look at Brian Head, who buckled under the pressure of years of bullying and took his own life, to the Columbine High School massacre and Luke Woodham's rampage in Mississippi in 97, incidents where bullying led to disaster. These, and many more cases, have been examined for evidence of a larger problem in society.
one of which is INTOLERANCE.