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On the Fence, but leaning right...

Lia

Banned
I don’t believe I have ever before come as close to sidling off the fence over theCapital Punishment controversy, than I have after reading about this case. I do think that I tended to lean more on the pro side of the debate tho; despite the terrible statistics of those who sit on death row on mere circumstantialevidence (that serious issue has to be addressed). And of course, there are those of whom all the evidence collected, has pointed to their guilt in the past, but of which recent evidence (such as DNA evidence) has shown them to beguiltless of the crime that they were convicted of.


That someone can sit on death row on absolutely 100% circumstantial evidence is a damning indictment of our justice system. These people (if found guilty of acrime purely on circumstantial evidence) should be given life, without the possibility of parole; at least then they have a chance of proving their innocence, if they are. And I do believe that ‘Life’ should mean Life.


Furthermore, harsh as it may sound, I also believe that if we are going to conduct legalmurder (for that’s what it amounts to), if there is no doubt of the conviction; if there was evidence that it was premeditated, as in the case of Ruth Ellis, the last woman to be hanged in England, then that death should be met by the accused, with all the fear and trepidation that was accorded to their victim.;and not as in the case of Ruth, who became so hysterical during the days leading up to the execution, that she was drugged up to the eyeballs when she was eventually led to the scaffold, and died, comatose. How was that justice forher victim?


And still, tho I am utterly against physical violence, I lean toward the pro side of the controversial subject… and here’s one of the reasons for why I lean that way.


There are far, far too many occasions, where it is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt, from evidence or admission by the criminal, that he/she is guilty of the most heinous crimes, and of whom are sentenced to terms of imprisonment, up to life; but who are out on the streets in a matter of mere years, a clear and present danger to us all. What a muddle our justice system is in.


Take the case of Amy Burridge, just 11 years old, and Becky Thompsom, just a couple of months off 18yrs. The girls were half sisters, and lived with their mother in Casper, Wyoming. The year was 1973. (I know this is going back some, but bear with me, I do have a point to make…)


Jerry Jenkins and Ronald Kennedy’s modus operandi was to slash the tires of unsuspecting lone female drivers, parked at superstores and corner shops; and when the unsuspecting victims, who had been noted by the pair to be young women, came back to their cars, would offer to assist them. They’d tried this before, with little success, but were ever hopeful.


Amy and Becky had gone to the store, in Becky’s car, to pick up some groceries for their mother who was working at the time. Jenkins slashed their tyres whilst they were in the store. When the girls came out of the store, and realised that they had a flat, Jenkins and Kennedy offered to help them. However, as Kennedy ushered the two girls into Jenkins white Impala, he drew out a knife and threatened them to comply with his wishes, or he would kill them.


Kennedy leant over the passenger seat as Jenkins drove the vehicle, and beat the two girls who were in the back seat so hard and so much that their blood was blown up against the back window. He waved his knife, threateningly, around their legs as they huddled on the floor, at least Becky was, and at Amy who was on the back seat at the time, and who desperately tried to dodge the knife, whilst he threatened them with death, screaming and shouting obscenities and abuse at them for several hours as they were driven around.


Amy sobbed pitifully; and Becky, horribly injured herself around her face and body, after being beaten by Kennedy when she was ordered to lie on the floor of the car, and, terrified beyond belief herself, tried her best to protect and comfort her little sister, Amy.


Kennedy repeatedly told both girls that they were going to ‘meet a man at a house’ who would ‘know what to do with them.’ He psychologically tortured them throughout the ordeal by telling them that there would be other men there, at the place where they were being taken to, who he doubted that he would be able to protect them from. This was cruel, and unusually sadistic mental torture to an 11 yearold and an 18 year old; indeed, for anyone, come to that. It was not true, as events turned out, but the girls did not know that at the time. However, what was about to come was equally as bad, and would end in the horrifically sadistic murder and attempted murder of the girls.


Eventually, around 01:00am the car was halted at the Fremont Canyon Bridge. Kennedy jumped out of the car and immediately began to demand that Amy, the 11 year old, come with him. Both girls pleaded to stay together, but Kennedy insisted that ‘the Boss’ would want the little girl first. Amy was taken out of the car whilst Becky was held on the back floor of the car. One can only imagine her state of mind at that time. Before Amy was led off, weeping hysterically, Becky, despite her fear and pain, told Amy that she loved her.


After some time Kennedy came back. He ordered Becky, under the threat of more torture, and whilst brandishing his knife, to ‘strip’ in the back seat. Once naked both men raped Becky, who was a virgin. After they raped her they allowed her to put her outer clothing back on, but not her underwear, cursing and tormenting her all the time; and then both men frog marched her onto the bridge where they pushed her, as she struggled and panicked, over the bridge, just as Kennedy had don eto Amy, when he took her from the car initially.


Becky slammed into a stone ledge on the 120 foot drop, and her body caromed off of that, to spiral on down to the river below. She sank deep into the water. Frightfully injured, and with no feeling to her hips and legs (she naivelyassumed that her legs had been broken). She paddled her way to the surface, barely alive, and gasping for breath. Wearing only a thin sweater (her jeans having come off in the water) she was shivering with cold, fear, and desperation. And it was dark, night-time.


Becky managed to paddle drag her way thro the water to the rocky granite slabs besidethe river. Heaving herself up she wormed her way further into the cold rocks, by her arms; and with no other cover to keep her warm, she pulled her useless legs up into a foetal position, and spread her long hair, as best she could, over her knees in an effort to keep warm. She knew that her sister was likely dead (Amy had been tossed over the bridge also, and altho Becky didn’t know it at the time, Amy’s spine had dove severa linches into her brain when she hit the same rock that Becky had bounced off of).


Becky was found the next morning, trying to crawl toward the road by an Angler and his wife, out for a day’s fishing. They drove by, and found her struggling to crawl along, naked except for the sweater; frozen, and deliriously begging for someone to help her sister, and to take care of her mother, who she thought would be worried.. Becky had spent a fitful night waiting for the dawn to arrive, fearful that the two men might be searching for her, and thinking of her sister, who she hoped had survived the fall, as she had done. Afraid to fall completely asleep, yet exhausted, she feared every ripple on the water and every noise, however slight, on that cold, dark night, wondering if they were coming to ‘finish her off.’


Both Kennedy and Jenkins had siblings who were convicted of rape and/or rape and murder, and in Jenkins case another sibling sister who was convicted of federal drug and white slavery charges. His brother, David, was convicted and sentenced to life in both Wyoming, and South Dakota, for murder, of which both cases were suspected of involving homosexual rape. Jenkins was also tried for another gang rape sometime before the rape and murder of the two sisters, with his co-defendant’s older brother Jim Kennedy.


Jenkins had previously called up an ex girlfriend and convinced her to go for a ride with him, maybe get a coke, etc. She accepted the invitation, and he and two of hisfriends, one Jim, the older Kennedy brother ( both unknown to the ex girlfriend) and drove her to some wasteland where they all raped her. The girl was pregnant at the time of the rape, but lost the child. Parked behind a dee pirrigation canal, the men beat her and told her that if she told anyone, they would kill her. She went to the police in any event (good girl), and the three men were arrested, and put on trial…


The Kennedy family produced two convicted rapists, wholly independent of each other; something that criminal psychologists rarely see. The fact that these two rapists/murderers met up, and together committed further atrocities, on these two young girls, is something even rarer, and it simply beggars belief.


Kennedy and Jenkins both got the death penalty. However, this was set aside on appeal by the Wyoming Supreme Court, tho their convictions for murder were upheld. They were sent back to the state district court to be re-sentenced. The sentences were ordered to run consecutively, and they would be spending at least thirty years in jail on the lesser charges, even with ‘good time served, before they would start their life sentences.


Kennedy would marry in prison and was allowed conjugal rights for ten years before the couple divorced.


Becky’s fate proved to be precariously indifferent to her trauma’s. The demons from that terrible night haunted her, despite the often over-bright face and cheerful aura she presented to the world, wherever she went. Some of her medical bills had been paid for by her step-father’s health insurance. Becky always worked, but at jobs that had no health insurance attached. Unable to get the therapy that she so desperately needed because, whilst Wyoming had enacted a ‘new victimsrights’ law in the wake of hers and Amy’s case, Becky wasn’t eligible tobenefit from them, she had to fight most of those demons on her own.


Becky’s path from the time of her rape and attempted murder led a downward spiral. She tried to hang on to some semblance of sanity and rationality; and indeed none of her family, or co-workers (she was very popular at work, as she was with everyone who knew her), had an inkling of what demons chased her. She slid into drink and drugs; and altho she married, and had a daughter, unfortunately, the marriage didn’t survive. They remained good friends after divorce tho. Throughout it all Becky always worked, and tried hard to support her daughter, and be a good mother to her.


Meanwhile, Kennedy and Jenkins were seeking a new trial. Kennedy had become something of a ‘jailhouse lawyer’ and this quest for a new trial haunted Becky also. Would she ever be free of these animals that had ruined her and Amy’s life? She had no idea that some years earlier Kennedy had been allowed to attend a family funeral, and the wake afterwards, mingling freely with the other mourners and guests at the buffet, less than a mile away from where she lived. He had been made a trusty at the jail, for pity’s sake, and was allowed a great deal of freedom. However, he lost that status when he was found to be in possession of drugs.


On the very day that Becky died, the Supreme Court had turned down Jenkins and Kennedy’s bid for a new trial. Unfortunately, Becky’s Lawyer couldn’t get hold of her to tell her the good news, which everyone hoped would ease her angst. But, in any event, Becky had slid further down the road to hell, fighting her inner emotions, telling one friend at lunch that she considered herself to be guilty of failing to help her little sister. Becky said that she should have died inher sister’s place.


Becky committed suicide, after several failed attempts, 19 years after the attempt on her life. She jumped from the same bridge that her sister Amy and she had been tossed over the side of, in an attempt by Kennedy and Jenkins, to leave nowitnesses. I have left out some of the more sordid details to this crime, and the rape; I’m sure they do not need to be elaborated upon. There have been several books written, by several authors, on this case tho, if anyone is interested in researching the case further.


My point to this narrative is that these men were nothing short of Sociopaths. Both had, at one stage or another, been diagnosed as such. There is no cure for a Sociopath;they have no conscience, no empathy. There is nothing that we can do with them, at this point in time. One can argue the ‘nature/nurture’ controversy surrounding this issue forever, but until science can transplant the missing components to the psyches of these soulless misfits, and delve more into the why’s and how’s of such oddities of nature, we’ll never know the answer to that question; and in the meantime, they will continue their killing sprees; they are compelled to do so.


I do not believe that people like this should live, and be supported by a society who will, as history has shown so many times before and since, allow them to be paroled at some stage down the road. They are just as much a danger to humankind as a hungry lion would be to its prey, whether human or animal. These human killing machines stalk prey in the same cold, calculating, and utterly indifferent way as would a wild animal; the difference being that they don’t do it for hunger, but for gratification of their own sick psyches. The public cannot be protected from them. As things stand at the moment, in medical terms, or the lack thereof of a cure for these deviates, trying to protect the public from them would be an exercise in futility. These deviates have to be contained for the rest of their natural days, or be sent on from this plane of existence.


I think that I might be leaning more to the right of the fence than ever before on the controversial issue of capital punishment. For there is no real question in my mind that these two demons should have been executed. I have another story that I would like for you all to hear. It is about a girl named Sylvia. She was 15 years old, and her death was the most cruel that one could possibly imagine; but that’s another story, for another time.


Yes, I think I might quite like to come down, finally, on the side of pro Capital Punishment lobbyists.
 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
When much younger I harbored a great deal of doubt that capital punishment had any deterrent value; that doubt was
largely removed by a series of interviews with prisoners who admitted that they would not have killed if they knew the
death penalty could be invoked. My lingering problems have to do with the very real possibility of mistakes; DNA
exonerations have validated those concerns.

However, in cases where there is absolutely no doubt as to guilt, the death penalty is wonderful. It saves all of the money
that it would cost to warehouse a killer, possibly for decades, and it damn sure prevents that same person from ever getting
out and doing it again.

 

Lia

Banned
I agree entirely, DS. There are a worrying amount of mistakes made when the sentence could be death row. We have to be so very sure, before we commit legal murder. The Peterson case is one that comes to mind, but there are so many others that are based purely on circumstancial evidence.


I absolutely believe that kennedy and Jenkins should have been executed as soon as their appeal had been turned down. There was no doubt that they commited that grusome crime, all the evidence was there, and the repercussions of the crime was shouldered by Becky for a further 19 years. Life should mean life. The death penalty, if based on actual and/or physical evidence, should mean death.

After all, Amy and Becky couldn't appeal, could they?
 

Adillo303

Diesel Truck Fan
GOLD Site Supporter
Hi Lia,

I was about to go out for the day when I read your post. Putting aside for a minute, whether people on death row deserve that particular penalty. In fact, let's assume for a moment they all do. Let's examine a couple facts.

I read a recent article detailing the life of Scott Peterson on death row.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/06/inside-scott-peterson-life-on-california-death-row/

In short one per cell, considerably better treatment than general population.

This dovetails with an article telling that many of those convicted prefer the death penalty.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/11/local/me-deathrow11

California has over 700 people on death row and the last person executed was in 2006 (I believe).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California

While California has more people on death row than anyone else,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California

It is still a long time between conviction and carrying out the sentence anywhere. Meanwhile, they are all living on the taxpayer's dollar.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/time-death-row

On average something like 17 years with some over 20.

While I agree that the viscous animals do not deserve to live. There seems to be a problem "getting it done".

To be a real deterrent, a punishment needs to be perceived as something really undesirable.

I am not for keeping them around, but, maybe, just maybe general population without parole would be seen as more of a deterrent. In many cases the more brutal offenders receive in prison justice.
 

Lia

Banned


Hello Adillo :smile:


It is still a long time between conviction and carrying out the sentence anywhere. Meanwhile, they are all living on the taxpayer's dollar.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/time-death-row


On average something like 17 years with some over 20.


Yes. far too long. I mean, it's not unheard o for inmates to escape (Ted Bundy comes to mind, immediately, and, whilst on the run he commited more murders). There have been other escapes also...


While I agree that the viscous animals do not deserve to live. There seems to be a problem "getting it done".


Again, yes. Whilst I'm all for caution when carrying out such terminal solutions, an average of 17 years is ridiculously long.


To be a real deterrent, a punishment needs to be perceived as something really undesirable.


I am not for keeping them around, but, maybe, just maybe general population without parole would be seen as more of a deterrent. In many cases the more brutal offenders receive in prison justice.


I would agree with you on that premise, but for one small detail that is so very often the sticking point. It is that so often, life doesn't mean life. It does for the victim, there's no reprieve there, but for the convicted? Well, we could all post links of cases where all to often the sence actually carried out is all too often just a fraction of what was laid down by the Judges.


And, another thing... I simply hate this system where the perp does a deal with the prosecutor, and, oh, let's say just for example he's offered assault and battery, instead of attempted murder, when the victim has been beaten half to death, and but for chance and/or circumstance, would have died.


Some killers, with rap sheets as long as the Declaration of Independence, have walked scot free, whilst others often get as little as two years. Life is so cheap for some... :sad:
 

mak2

Active member
Our country should show more respect for life, the only time we should take a life is in self defense. After the threat has been nuteralized and put in prision, life in prision is far worse than death anyway. This is why I beleive we should all be armed, kill em while it is still self defense. The government taking a life takes away from the sanctity of life as a whole in our society.
 

Lia

Banned
Our country should show more respect for life, the only time we should take a life is in self defense. After the threat has been nuteralized and put in prision, life in prision is far worse than death anyway. This is why I beleive we should all be armed, kill em while it is still self defense. The government taking a life takes away from the sanctity of life as a whole in our society.



Governments take lives, because the people demand it. In many states, and indeed in many countries, the death penalty has been dissolved and reinstated several times over, and sometimes depending on whether votes are needed.


However, that's beside the point, the fact remains that there are people walking the earth that are a danger to every one of us, and there is no cure for them. Why should we, the overstretched taxpayers, keep them in luxury for the rest of their lives?



After all, there are many who would say that the convicted man/woman is going to a better place, with a chance for redemption. In many respects, I believe that myself...
 

Lia

Banned
This is why I beleive we should all be armed, kill em while it is still self defense.


Thinking about this tho, Mak... just mulling it over. It isn't really feasible for everyone to be armed, that's the thing. For example, children can't be armed. Adam Walsh, for example, how could he have fought back, in self defence? Thousands of children of all ages are taken and killed every day... we simply couldn't allow them to carry weapons.


No, whilst I can see where you're coming from, and empathize with the emotions of wanting justice, arming everyone isn't something that would be viable.
 
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