Made in the USA?

I posted this comment on a friend's Facebook page the other day in response to something that was posted, and I thought I would post it here to see what kind of feedback it would get...

So I guess the question is, why are many items not manufactured in the U.S. anymore? Were the corporations looking for the biggest possible profits, regardless of long term consequences, or did the consumers demand lowest possible prices, without regard to long term consequences?

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Look at the thread about the EPA closing the lead plant and that may give you one answer.

There really isn't a simple answer here. Many factors have combined to make it unprofitable for manufacturers to stay in the U.S. Below are listed a few, but this list is by no means comprehensive. Over-regulation by the state and federal govrnments, EPA, DHEC, OSHA, DOI, etc...
Over pricing of labor by unions and mandatory minimum wage laws.
Increasing costs of taxation, business, land, utilities, access fees, etc...
Massive costs of insurance and legal fees to fight spurious lawsuits, and to fight government overreach beyond regulations.
The desire of consumers to get decent quality at the lowest possible price.
The desire of stockholders to receive the highest possible return on their investment and for management to receive the highest possible bonuses they can.
By far,the greatest contributor to manufacturing job loss in the U.S. since the 1970's has been government over-regulation and overreach.

I agree lobo,

But lets not for get that some products were moved over seas to manufacturing plants, not because they were not profitable. It was simply because by manufacturing it abroad it was WILDLY more profitable. It has nothing to do with the US worker. It had everything to do with the huge profit margin that was attainable by becoming a importer, rather than a manufacturer. In some cases I am afraid management threw the workers under the bus.....And doubled their saleries, as the stock holder was making out on the deal as well.

Quality went south on many produts that were imported. Today some Corps are relocating back here in the USA because of qaulity issues, that could not be solved with the over sea's manufacturer. I wish more of this sort of thing to happen...

Regards, Kirk

AndyM said:

I posted this comment on a friend's Facebook page the other day in response to something that was posted, and I thought I would post it here to see what kind of feedback it would get...

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Andy I honestly think the question posed in your quote box is a straw man question, similar to "have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Part 1 of the question is do the companies try to return the highest profits . . . part 2 of the question is do the consumers try to buy at the lowest prices . . . and in both cases there is a dependent clause asking if either group (Companies or Consumers) care about the long term consequences.

Answer to Part 1, YES, companies try to return higher profits so their investor can be paid. Answer to Part 2, YES, consumers try to buy at the lowest prices/highest value to them. Answer tot he dependent clause for both is the same: No they do not generally think about the long term consequences . . . which one can only presume is the loss of American jobs and the associated affects.

However while I deduced the follow up consequence, that being the loss of jobs here and the ripple effects in our economy that creates, that is not a full question/answer.

For example, in the 1960s and through the 70's the Japanese car industry was making cheaper cars than we were making in Detroit. The UAW got together with the politicians and trade teriffs were placed on Japanese imports. Effectively the Japanese cars were no longer 'cheaper' than our American cars. So our American auto industry was 'saved' by the teriff. EXCEPT, that didn't stop the Japanese. They started making their cars BETTER and they were still cheaper. So now the QUALITY of their cars exceeded the QUALITY of our domestic cars, and while the teriff prevented them from being CHEAP, it did not affect their quality. OH, and then we had a gasoline shortage and the Japanese cars got great (for the time) fuel economy.

So what happened? People started buying the BETTER car, which was also more fuel efficient, and, in the long run because it was better, it was also CHEAPER to own, despite the fact that it was not sold at a discount.

Now go back to the originally quoted questions and you will see that the original questions do not fit the REAL LIFE EXAMPLE perfectly. The original question is designed to illicit guilt in the consumer and the producer, but to do that it must imply that they are doing something wrong AND further must simultaneously ingnore real life economics.

Melensdad said:

For example, in the 1960s and through the 70's the Japanese car industry was making cheaper cars than we were making in Detroit. The UAW got together with the politicians and trade teriffs were placed on Japanese imports. Effectively the Japanese cars were no longer 'cheaper' than our American cars. So our American auto industry was 'saved' by the teriff. EXCEPT, that didn't stop the Japanese. They started making their cars BETTER and they were still cheaper. So now the QUALITY of their cars exceeded the QUALITY of our domestic cars, and while the teriff prevented them from being CHEAP, it did not affect their quality. OH, and then we had a gasoline shortage and the Japanese cars got great (for the time) fuel economy.

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You bet, Melensdad. If you can remember back to the "new" transistor radio then you can remember the derogatory "made in Japan" meme.

But today it is sometimes an impossible challenge to find a product - any product on our shelves - that isn't made in China. And it is not junk. The majority of it is quality stuff. Because the majority of it is actually American R&D, fabricated and assembled by cheap Chinese labor.

Can this process be reversed? No. Not until the American government lays hands off the American entrepreneur. Which left to the American Congress will never happen.

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I look at the Japanese, Korean & German cars to name a few that are made here in the USA without UAW "help" that seem to be made with much better quality than their American Manufacturer counterparts.

I can only speak for the Korean cars with experience though. My 2012 Hyundai has much better fit and finish (assembled in Alabama with non UAW) than my 2007 Sebring could ever dream of having. which was assembled in Sterling Heights Michigan with UAW "assistance".

Point. Things can be made here again with quality and profit. However, it will take a new pro business attitude in DC, not just campaign rhetoric. I also think the UAW has burned too many bridges to be a major player in a revived America. They are too selfish and self centered to be part of a major revival. Obama and his goons could never embrace this.

TiredRetired said:

I look at the Japanese, Korean & German cars to name a few that are made here in the USA without UAW "help" that seem to be made with much better quality than their American Manufacturer counterparts.

I can only speak for the Korean cars with experience though. My 2012 Hyundai has much better fit and finish (assembled in Alabama with non UAW) than my 2007 Sebring could ever dream of having. which was assembled in Sterling Heights Michigan with UAW "assistance".

Point. Things can be made here again with quality and profit. However, it will take a new pro business attitude in DC, not just campaign rhetoric. I also think the UAW has burned too many bridges to be a major player in a revived America. They are too selfish and self centered to be part of a major revival. Obama and his goons could never embrace this.

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Zactly on point my freind.

Why is it that for the last 20 years, American auto companies, constrained by their unions, have chosen to outsource more and more the parts and maufacturing of their "American" product while Foreign auto makers have found it better to build plants and supplier lines here in the USA?

On a similar note: Am I the only one offended when Democrats make the claim that Obama "saved" the US auto industry?
He literaly gave Chrysler to Fiat and GM (70% of which our government now owns) is moving to China.
Other than the small group of UAW workers, to whom he gave equities over the bondholders, what US auto entity did he preserve?