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Tragic Accident

tom

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
I know the lake, the lodge and the owners well.. stayed there last week. I can’t imagine what made them think it would be safe to wander out onto that lake. The tragedy is that they were warned not to do it by the owner who spends a lot of time grooming the snowmobile trails up there.
 

PJL

Well-known member
Thoughts and prayers out to the families of the missing guys also the search and rescue folks that will end up diving under the ice to look for them.
 

KT3survivor

Active member
the grand mesa can be an unforgiving, unpredictable place. the thought of driving any cat accross any of those lakes seems crazy to me. but 15k on island lake is something i hope no one ever attempts again.
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
That is just tragic...

Tom, thanks for sharing that and highlighting a danger many of us don't give enough thought to.

I grew up in the northeast where there tend to be colder temperatures and less snow. That means both the frost level in the ground is deeper, and the ice on lakes and rivers is thicker. My impression living in Utah is somewhat the opposite. We tend to get more snow and it starts to accumulate before the ground has frozen very deeply. That snow then acts as an insulating blanket and the ground never freezes to significant depths. That same concept applies to lake and river ice. I can remember crossing a "frozen" lake while snowmobiling with buddies high in the Utah mountains, looking back at my tracks and seeing slush. I made sure to keep my speed up and fortunately made it across without incident. To put it mildly and politely...it was a learning experience.
 

tom

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
KT3 and Blackfoot...you guys are spot on in your comments. I too question the figure thrown out for the weight of the machine..but having ridden that lake on a snowmobile and having the same experience of slush, it cured me of the desire to surf that lake on a snow machine. Unfortunately I believe this may have been a case of not realizing where they were or even worse one of those “ here hold my beer, watch this “ moments that went wrong.
 

KT3survivor

Active member
Unfortunately I believe this may have been a case of not realizing where they were or even worse one of those “ here hold my beer, watch this “ moments that went wrong.


the 1am engine startup certainly raises eyebrows. been trying to find a picture online of his cat just because im curious myself on the weight
 

PJL

Well-known member
The lodge owner said he heard the cat start at 1 am. Lends some weight to the "hold my beer" scenario. Several years ago a guy around here did that in a Cessna with 2 passengers. Ended badly.
 

wakeupcall

Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Everybody should pay really close attention to the actions and outcome of this very tragic ending of two peoples lifes. Not going to say that alcohol was involved in this accident, but good judgement was definately not used. After talking to the lodge owner about taking it out on the lake they did so anyway. And you would know you were on the lake as soon as you hit the surface of it. The report said the two bodies were recovered out side of the cat which indicates they did try to exit ,but water temps would be unreal to survive in. Very sad deal, thoughts and prayers go out to all who knew these young men. The country that we as snow catters so enjoy if not respected can have severe consequences.
 

tom

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well this is gruesome...a friend of mine is in the towing business as was one of the victims. He relayed the following..they were drinking if not drunk at the time and their foray on to the lake was intentional. When they were found one of them had a flashlight frozen in one hand and the other hand was cut and scarred from trying to claw his way out! They were both in the Cat irregardless of what the report said.

Think about that for a minute...I guess we all feel a little bit bullet proof in these machines from time to time because of what they are capable of..but do so at our own peril.
 

wakeupcall

Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tom, That is a very sad story. Everybody sure needs to be extra aware of all your actions. There are many ways other than water to get in a bad bind while snow catting in the back country. Just be Safe Please!!
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Tom, That is a very sad story. Everybody sure needs to be extra aware of all your actions. There are many ways other than water to get in a bad bind while snow catting in the back country. Just be Safe Please!!


I would like to add to that staying sober is another good rule to observe. Sobriety has been scientifically linked directly to common sense. :wink:

Regards, Kirk
 

PJL

Well-known member
Tom, thanks for filling in the rest of the story. That hit a little close to home.

300 H you are right.

We can sit here and joke about "here hold my beer" but in reality it causes way to many senseless deaths. Every single day.
 
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Pontoon Princess

Cattitute
GOLD Site Supporter
We all need to take a moment and think about what we are doing, stay aware of our surroundings and weather conditions.

I truly hope never to hear about another senseless tragic accident like this one.

my prayers goes to all involved, the families and rescue teams.
 
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redsqwrl

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
IN case any one does not know. regardless of the bitching from your occupants.....

always:
operate with the windows open.
Seat belts off
Eyes open

Never operate:
parallel to cracks
on ice that will not support water
at speeds higher that 15 mph
closer than three vehicle lengths

When you go in:
stay calm
get out.
Get clear

If trapped:
stay calm
get out after your clear of the ice sheet
look where you are going

lastly:
there is always air at the ice sheet
If you don't immediately find the opening you came into the lake from,remembering there IS air under the ice can get you another chance to find the opening.

before any lights me up for misinformation.
Read this:
http://rivergages.mvr.usace.army.mil/WaterControl/Districts/MVP/reports/ice/safety.html

That individual was unable to break the window at 65'of depth, or did not think to do it. If my mikey math is correct, It would take about 28 lbs per square inch on that door to open it. with the door on a 15000 snow cat (guessing tucker) about 36" x 60" the cab pressure would have needed to equalize before it could be opened with the latch.
 

Backyardski

BackyardskiLima
GOLD Site Supporter
I’d like to add one more thing regarding pressure and depth, it is extremely important to exhale as you ascend. If you took a breath before exiting the cab at that depth the air in your lungs would expand to three times the volume at the surface which would be game over as well.

I can’t think of much worse of a situation to be in. Even if you got on top of the ice there wouldn’t be much time until hypothermia got you.

30 is way too young to die
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
I’d like to add one more thing regarding pressure and depth, it is extremely important to exhale as you ascend. If you took a breath before exiting the cab at that depth the air in your lungs would expand to three times the volume at the surface which would be game over as well.

I can’t think of much worse of a situation to be in. Even if you got on top of the ice there wouldn’t be much time until hypothermia got you.

30 is way too young to die
having fallen into water of that temp you are involentieraly going to let some air out of your lungs.
 

Backyardski

BackyardskiLima
GOLD Site Supporter
having fallen into water of that temp you are involentieraly going to let some air out of your lungs.


I don’t disagree with that, if you just fell in.

Exiting a submerged cab at 65’ though, I think most people would instinctively and incorrectly hold the air they had until the surface. PADI instructions are to exhale with an “ahhhh” sound during an emergency ascent to know you are releasing enough air.
 

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Backyardski

BackyardskiLima
GOLD Site Supporter
I should have included this one too.
 

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tom

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
My instincts tell me that that Cat sank so fast they didn’t have time to fully comprehend and react to their situation until they were on the bottom with water pouring in. Not sure what make/model they were in but none I know of besides a Hagglunds is water tight.
 

rockhead

Member
Survival tip I never would have thought of is that if you do go through the ice and make it back topside --- go roll in the snow --- this will create a layer of ice that will limit water evaporation and give the warm (?!) effect of wearing a wetsuit, brrrrr, no thanks :bolt:
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Personally I don't go out on the ice in my cat until I see cars and trucks out on the ice by their ice house's.

Good rule of thumb in my neck of the woods. Ice fishermen are pretty smart people usually. If they are not, they go underwater fast! They drill and know the thickness of the ice, and how much it can support. ( I don't!) Smarter that I, as they are who I consider the pro's when it comes to going out on the ice heavy as they say..

Regards, Kirk
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I got a call this morning from Tucker's Jeff Godard. We talked about this accident and Jeff said it seems about one Tucker a year goes through the ice... somewhere. A few years ago I had a conversation with Bill Cook, the former East Coast Tucker dealer and he told me of a Tucker going through the ice. I mentioned it to Jeff, and he knew of that accident and filled in a lot of details I didn't know:

Jeff said it happened in Upstate New York or Vermont on a lake. There was an ice fishing derby coming up and they used a blade-equipped Tucker 1000 to remove the snow from an area for the derby. When the competition was over they again used the Tucker to smooth out the snow berms created by clearing the ice for the derby. It was while doing this the Tucker went through the ice...in about 80' of water.

The operator was able to find a bubble of air in the cab, gulped a lungful of air and kicked out the rear window. But on that model the size of the fuel tank, mounted right behind the cab, blocks some of the rear window opening and the operator wasn't able to squeeze through. However, he was able to kick out a side window and he swam toward the surface. But he came up under ice and felt along the ice until he found an open area. Most fortunately, people saw the arm sticking through the water and they pulled him to safety. Jeff said the poor man had nightmares for a while afterward.

The machine was recovered with inflatable air bags to bring it to the surface. It was rebuilt per the insurance company with a new cab, new frame, and I believe a new engine and transmission as well.

I'll repost a link I think Track Addict originally posted on the forum about another tragic ice disaster; this time about snowmobilers on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. It's a good read:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/02/25/winnipesaukee/vggPyHa8os3dmIGN9ZuJpI/story.html

Older forum members may recall the popular eighties TV show Hill Street Blues. Here's an appropriate clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pIkkzDagsY
 
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