Can you please tell me why?

elsmitro · Apr 5, 2007

Why are POWs considered heroes / heroines? I have honestly been trying to figure this one out for years! Why in the hell are these people welcomed home to such fan fare? These people that ‘somehow’ managed to become captive by the enemy rather than fight to the death. Why are they glamorized and glorified as if they are something special? I consider them cowards; more interested in their own pathetic lives than accomplishing their mission. They should be treated as treasonous lepers; shunned and cast out!

elsmitro · Apr 5, 2007

http://www.firstshowing.net/img/vid/warinc_trailer_320x152.mov

Wannafish · Apr 5, 2007

elsmitro said:
They should be treated as treasonous lepers; shunned and cast out!

Gosh. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Melensdad · Apr 5, 2007

Well I'm not sure the British sailors should be considered cowards. If I recall correctly, they were un-armed (or maybe a few had handguns) and there were 2 or 3 heavily armed Iranian patrol boats that surrounded them. Perhaps under some logic they should have fought to the death, but under those odds, it seems like a smart man will live to fight another day.

There are probably many examples of total cowardace, but I don't know this is one of those.

Doc · Apr 5, 2007

Cowards!!!???? You've got to be kidding. A coward would not be there in the first place.
These men put up with torture and were captured through no fault of their own. Remember the chain of command. If a mistake was made and a platoon is led somewhere it shouldn't have been, or they don't guard their rear flank ...whatever they all can be captured. The person in charge might have made a mistake and that makes them all cowards??? If the person in charge sees fit to surrender, they are obligated to follow his lead. They are not cowards. They are men in a bad situation who had to put up with hell sometimes for years without giving up our countries secrets.
Others are caught behind ememy lines because their plane was shot down. How in the world does that make them a coward.
They deserve a heros welcome home.
Okay, ....you put the hook out there and I bit

elsmitro · Apr 5, 2007

Doc said:
Cowards!!!???? You've got to be kidding. A coward would not be there in the first place.
These men put up with torture and were captured through no fault of their own. Remember the chain of command. If a mistake was made and a platoon is led somewhere it shouldn't have been, or they don't guard their rear flank ...whatever they all can be captured. The person in charge might have made a mistake and that makes them all cowards??? If the person in charge sees fit to surrender, they are obligated to follow his lead. They are not cowards. They are men in a bad situation who had to put up with hell sometimes for years without giving up our countries secrets.
Others are caught behind ememy lines because their plane was shot down. How in the world does that make them a coward.
They deserve a heros welcome home.
Okay, ....you put the hook out there and I bit

Yeah right, what kind of idiot would put someone that would surrender in charge?
Exactly why they shouldn't allow themselves to be taken in the first place!
They should escape or die fighting!
Exactly like I said "more interested in their own pathetic lives than accomplishing their mission."
NO THEY DON'T!
:wave:

BoneheadNW · Apr 5, 2007

I saw this as I was headed out the door- guess I will respond.

cow·ard [ ków ərd ] (plural cow·ards)

noun Definition: 1. somebody lacking courage: somebody regarded as fearful and uncourageous

2. bully: somebody who harms or attacks people who are weaker or unable to defend themselves

3. anonymous enemy: somebody who anonymously harms those who cannot defend themselves

Look at #2 and #3. Could this apply to an armchair gung-ho ex-military man who attacks (verbally at least) those who were captured by superior fire power? Wait, don't tell me. If you were one of those 15 men, YOU would have gone down fighting, right?
Bonehead

elsmitro · Apr 5, 2007

You got me! :yum:

OK, I admit that I was a little overzealous on the name-calling… But seriously, why should POWs be considered heroes? In a word, propaganda!
:wave:

bczoom · Apr 5, 2007

In general, I don't know if POW's are considered any more of a hero than any other soldier.

They may receive more fan fare because their fate being under the control of another entity (outside their own government) is uncertain. Many POW's were never returned to their own country so it's good to see them released and they receive more media attention.

Regarding the 15 UK Sailors/Marines, their surrender was probably the best course to take. Had they chose to fight, this incident could have started a war with Iran which would have been significantly worse then being detained and having diplomatic relations resolve the dispute.

Like you (elsmitro), having been in the Marines myself, it's embedded in us to not surrender. Capitulation is not an option. If captured, you do everything you can to escape. Retreat isn't an option either (although there's times when it's appropriate to advance in the opposite direction

).

elsmitro · Apr 5, 2007

bczoom said:
advance in the opposite direction .

AMEN Brother, I was taught to “Attack in the opposite direction!”

Glink · Apr 5, 2007

Well I am not ex-military so I am a bit hesitant to comment; and this is definitely not a criticism; but rather, a couple of questions.

One, if defeat is imminent and assured, is it not better to live to fight another day and possibly further the cause as soon as you are able?

Two, I guess I was honestly a bit dismayed at these folks getting on TV and apologizing for something their gov. was saying that was untrue.

Again not criticizing just looking for comment from folks who have been there.

bczoom · Apr 5, 2007

Glink said:
One, if defeat is imminent and assured, is it not better to live to fight another day and possibly further the cause as soon as you are able?

I guess a lot of it depends on "imminent and assured". There's so many factors involved it's rarely known whether "imminent and assured" is a certainty. Without getting into specific cases, I would venture most Medal of Honor and Silver Star recipients were in a situation where their loss was a certainty. But, nobody told them, so they continued to fight and many came out victorious.

Unless you're out of ammo, you still have a chance. If he/they are out of ammo as well, bring on the knives. After that, whatever you've got. If you're out of ammo and they still have it, I guess that's a case of "imminent and assured" and capture is likely.

russellmn · Apr 8, 2007

Are we referring to those british sailors specifically??? or just POWs in general??? If in general, then what would you call all the marines and soldiers on Corregidor who fought for months with next to nothing and then were ordered to surrender? The same men that endured the Bataan Death March. What do you call them?? DO NOT say cowards. Those men fought in conditions and situations that we should all be praying we never have to experience in modern warfare. My Grandpa told me about the things the Japs did to them on that march, and of the BRUTAL fighting before that. Hand to hand with e-tools and steel pots, Japs coming at them with swords and long bayonets, artillery incoming incessently. These men gave all they had, don't you DARE take anything away from them!

I don't know very much about the Brit's situation, but it doesn't sound like they had much choice but to surrender.

elsmitro · Apr 9, 2007

russellmn said:
Are we referring to those british sailors specifically??? or just POWs in general??? If in general, then what would you call all the marines and soldiers on Corregidor who fought for months with next to nothing and then were ordered to surrender? The same men that endured the Bataan Death March. What do you call them?? DO NOT say cowards. Those men fought in conditions and situations that we should all be praying we never have to experience in modern warfare. My Grandpa told me about the things the Japs did to them on that march, and of the BRUTAL fighting before that. Hand to hand with e-tools and steel pots, Japs coming at them with swords and long bayonets, artillery incoming incessently. These men gave all they had, don't you DARE take anything away from them!

I don't know very much about the Brit's situation, but it doesn't sound like they had much choice but to surrender.

Especially the recent Brit ‘surrender without a shot’ gang; but it’s certainly not exclusive to anyone. The “Bataan Death March” is a very good reason NOT to surrender. You can’t tell me that it wouldn’t have been better to die fighting. Oh, that’s right, your army… You’re just pissed because it’s your bunch that keeps getting egg on the face of our country. Lucky for you we have the Corps to clean up your alls messes. There is always a choice! The first one is don’t run in with a half baked plan!

bczoom · Apr 9, 2007

elsmitro said:
Oh, that’s right, your army… You’re just pissed because it’s your bunch that keeps getting egg on the face of our country. Lucky for you we have the Corps to clean up your alls messes.

Easy on the Army elsmitro...

Go ahead and pick on the Navy but don't be dissing the Army folks.

ImInnocent · Apr 9, 2007

ooh. ouch.

elsmitro said:
Why are POWs considered heroes / heroines? These people that ‘somehow’ managed to become captive by the enemy rather than fight to the death. Why are they glamorized and glorified as if they are something special?

uuuh. I'm just wondering here... are you serious?
possibly because they are tortured and tourmented to 'give up vital/secret information'
and they DON'T.

cheers to you POWS. I've got yer back :alc:

[** walks angrily out of thread**]

elsmitro · Apr 9, 2007

Re: ooh. ouch.

Welcome to ForumsForums ImInnocent!

ImInnocent said:
uuuh. I'm just wondering here... are you serious?

Why do people keep asking me that? :yum:

ImInnocent said:
possibly because they are tortured and tourmented to 'give up vital/secret information'
and they DON'T.

cheers to you POWS. I've got yer back
[** walks angrily out of thread**]

Oh, they DON'T. do they? :yum:

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Please stick with subjects you have knowledge of. Maybe someone has a flower picking thread; I know there is one on shower shoes around here someplace.
Here, I will even help you find one: http://www.tv.com/teletubbies/show/19613/forums.html

HAVE A NICE DAY!

ImInnocent · Apr 9, 2007

rude

[*** breaths sigh of relief ***]

why I didn't emigrate from the USA earlier???

loving the open-minded, tolerant British.

me =====> :argueing:

<===== angry frenzied american (u)

1948berg · Apr 9, 2007

Elsmitro

It must be something very wrong in your head!
The biggest heros usually sits back home, I guess that you just are one of them.

ImInnocent · Apr 9, 2007

he heee

1948berg said:
Elsmitro

It must be something very wrong in your head!
The biggest heros usually sits back home, I guess that you just are one of them.

heee heeeeeeeeee. stop it, 1948Berg, behave yourself. [no don't]

me ====> :alc:

<==== the berg
(at the pub)

Can you please tell me why?

floppy member

floppy member

Floppy Member

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator

Bottoms Up

floppy member

New member

floppy member

Super Moderator

floppy member

Active member

Super Moderator

New member

floppy member

Super Moderator

New member

floppy member

New member

New member

New member