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Should Gays be Allowed to Serve Openly in the Military?

Should Gays be Allowed to Openly Serve in our Military?

  • YES

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • NO

    Votes: 12 46.2%

  • Total voters
    26
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Cityboy

Banned
I just watched an episode of 60 Minutes on this subject. I'm a veteran. I knew a gay Navy Corpsman when I was overseas. He caught hell from some of the "macho" badasses (so they thought), but the guy did his job and was a damned good field "Doc" as we Marines called our Navy medics. I still do not understand why a man would choose to have sex with other men, but....you know...WTF? Why not leave these people alone and let them serve their country?

I left the Marine Corps in 1986 and entered private industry. In my field, there are a few gay folks, probably about 1%, as is consistent with the rest of the U.S. population. But I noticed something about these people that was somewhat different from the general population....they tend to be extremely competent in their jobs and highly intelligent to a higher degree than the general population. Interesting. This is simply my own observation from my own experience. And here is another personal observation: Bigots and homophobes tend to be more ignorant and less competent in their jobs than the gay folks they hate. Go figure. Again, just my personal observation.

I also notice many older people, let's say 50+, tend to be less tolerant of gays and people different from themselves in general. Perhaps this is a generational thing?

Anyway, what say you, FF members? Should gays be allowed to serve openly in our military? If not, why not. If so, why? As for me, I say let them serve like anyone else as long as they get the job done like anyone else. Evaluate thier service based on performance of their jobs, not on what they do in private.

OK...let's vote & comment.....
 

ddrane2115

Charter Member
SUPER Site Supporter
Anyway, what say you, FF members? Should gays be allowed to serve openly in our military? If not, why not. If so, why? As for me, I say let them serve like anyone else as long as they get the job done like anyone else. Evaluate thier service based on performance of their jobs, not on what they do in private.

OK...let's vote & comment.....


I second your opinion on this, why should they NOT serve, if they are just as willing to do the job, can do it, and do it well.
 

OhioTC18

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I say they should be allowed to serve.
Why does the military not want them, if they "come out of the closet"? Is it because they are weaker or more susceptible to enemy torture if caught? Or is it just bigotry? Or will it somehow not make a cohesive group? In a battle situation, you need to be able to count on the person standing next to you no matter what. If I needed to support the gay man next to me, he's got it, but he better be ready to do the same for me.
I work closely with two gay women. In fact I hired both of them suspecting they were gay. They take a lot of shit out in the field, but can give it right back too.
 

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
SUPER Site Supporter
Yes, but only if they are hot lesbians. :w00t: Seriously I say let em serve. If they would die for their country then why not.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
<snip> As for me, I say let them serve like anyone else as long as they get the job done like anyone else. Evaluate thier service based on performance of their jobs, not on what they do in private.

OK...let's vote & comment.....

I agree.
let them serve without having to hide if they don't want to.
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
Gays love their country too . They may have a different lifestyle than most of us ,but this is not a military that still has the draft . These men and women joined the military because they wanted to . No body force them . They want to defend their country , nothing else should matter . I ,for one ,say welcome soldier and thank you for you sacifice .
 

Deerlope

New member
if some of these new recurits with criminal backgrounds can serve then I say let the gays serve also, they will be less trouble.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nope, no matter how non-discriminating you'd like to be it still ain't natural.

I think the key word is "openly". I would cringe at the site of 2 uniformed men holding hands and kissing ......... :tongue:

I know, I know it's meant only as true admission but then you get into "proper representation" issues.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Don't ask don't tell is okay by me.
Openly gay would bother me. I can't fathom a gay couple being openly gay on a US Navy ship. I would suspect the openness and various love affairs on ships would get in the way of the mission at hand. I would not want to serve on a ship under those circumstances.
 

Cityboy

Banned
Don't ask don't tell is okay by me.
Openly gay would bother me. I can't fathom a gay couple being openly gay on a US Navy ship. I would suspect the openness and various love affairs on ships would get in the way of the mission at hand. I would not want to serve on a ship under those circumstances.

Heterosexual relationships on a U.S. Navy ship or anywhere else get in the way of the mission at hand. Military members are forbidden to engagi in public displays of affection while in uniform. Can you imagine the sexual tension on board naval vessels today now that there are women side by side with thousands of horny young men vying for their affections? The ratio of woment to men is probably greater than 1 woman per 100 men. You reckon that can cause a few problems?
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Heterosexual relationships on a U.S. Navy ship or anywhere else get in the way of the mission at hand. Military members are forbidden to engagi in public displays of affection while in uniform.

So if they are naked or in speedo's I guess they can publicly display affections. :yum: :bonk:

Relationship issues cause problems on ships even when they are not both serving together, it could come in the form of a dear john letter.

The Navy strives to keep relationship issues apart from the day to day activities on the ship. They have separate quarters for male and female sailors located as far apart as possible, and keep the focus on the mission. With openly gays in the mix the Navy cannot keep them housed separate from the rest of the crew. All living the the same quarters would made the issues even worse. I can only imagine some gay guy prancing around in front of the other guys after his shower. :puke1: I can't imagine this would be a good thing for the Navy or the Military at large.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
So if they are naked or in speedo's I guess they can publicly display affections. :yum: :bonk:

Relationship issues cause problems on ships even when they are not both serving together, it could come in the form of a dear john letter.

The Navy strives to keep relationship issues apart from the day to day activities on the ship. They have separate quarters for male and female sailors located as far apart as possible, and keep the focus on the mission. With openly gays in the mix the Navy cannot keep them housed separate from the rest of the crew. All living the the same quarters would made the issues even worse. I can only imagine some gay guy prancing around in front of the other guys after his shower. :puke1: I can't imagine this would be a good thing for the Navy or the Military at large.

I'm with Doc on this one. Besides, I don't want to give the gay rights lobby any more leeway. They are a noisy and over demanding miniscule percentage of our population. I refuse to support anything that would give them special priviledges in our society simply based on that fact.
 

Cityboy

Banned
So if they are naked or in speedo's I guess they can publicly display affections. :yum: :bonk:

Relationship issues cause problems on ships even when they are not both serving together, it could come in the form of a dear john letter.

The Navy strives to keep relationship issues apart from the day to day activities on the ship. They have separate quarters for male and female sailors located as far apart as possible, and keep the focus on the mission. With openly gays in the mix the Navy cannot keep them housed separate from the rest of the crew. All living the the same quarters would made the issues even worse. I can only imagine some gay guy prancing around in front of the other guys after his shower. :puke1: I can't imagine this would be a good thing for the Navy or the Military at large.

The fact is, there are lots of gays in all the services, and if polled, I'd bet the greatest number of gays are in the navy. For all you know Doc, your bunkmates could have been closet gays.

Sex while on duty is forbidden between any military members. Sex is forbidden in the barracks, but I've seen it happen between men & women regularly while I was in. I've also wittnessed several female members intentionally get pregnant in order to get out of the service. Heterosexuals cause far more problems to military units than gays do, at least as things stand right now.

By "openly" serving, I mean that it is simply known that the members are homosexual. No one is condoning bathouse behavior between gays out on the flight deck. That is disgusting even between heterosexual members.
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
Sex while on duty is forbidden between any military members. Sex is forbidden in the barracks, but I've seen it happen between men & women regularly while I was in. I've also wittnessed several female members intentionally get pregnant in order to get out of the service. Heterosexuals cause far more problems to military units than gays do, at least as things stand right now.

Yeah, I always thought that type of fraternization was severely frowned upon anyway.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
The fact is, there are lots of gays in all the services, and if polled, I'd bet the greatest number of gays are in the navy. For all you know Doc, your bunkmates could have been closet gays.

Sex while on duty is forbidden between any military members. Sex is forbidden in the barracks, but I've seen it happen between men & women regularly while I was in. I've also wittnessed several female members intentionally get pregnant in order to get out of the service. Heterosexuals cause far more problems to military units than gays do, at least as things stand right now.

By "openly" serving, I mean that it is simply known that the members are homosexual. No one is condoning bathouse behavior between gays out on the flight deck. That is disgusting even between heterosexual members.

good answer - and better phrased than the similar version I was trying to come up with.
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
if some of these new recruits with criminal backgrounds can serve then I say let the gays serve also, they will be less trouble.
I agree
Nope, no matter how non-discriminating you'd like to be it still ain't natural.
I think the key word is "openly". I would cringe at the site of 2 uniformed men holding hands and kissing ......... :tongue:
I know, I know it's meant only as true admission but then you get into "proper representation" issues.
All this does is narrow the military. You would let a girl go out there and get shot at, but not a "swishy guy"?
Don't ask don't tell is okay by me.
Openly gay would bother me. I can't fathom a gay couple being openly gay on a US Navy ship. I would suspect the openness and various love affairs on ships would get in the way of the mission at hand. I would not want to serve on a ship under those circumstances.
So if they are naked or in speedo's I guess they can publicly display affections. :yum: :bonk:
Relationship issues cause problems on ships even when they are not both serving together, it could come in the form of a dear john letter.
The Navy strives to keep relationship issues apart from the day to day activities on the ship. All living the the same quarters would made the issues even worse. I can only imagine some gay guy prancing around in front of the other guys after his shower. :puke1: I can't imagine this would be a good thing for the Navy or the Military at large.
I think the reason they say, "don't ask, don't tell" is because if they do tell...they will kicked out of the military...not because the gays want to run around naked, or in speedos, or holds and kiss in front of other soldiers.If a heterosexual couple acted like this they would be kicked out too, but you give them credit for knowing to follow rules.
What bothers me is some of you act like just because they are gay they are stupid, can't follow orders, or act girlie....when in fact they have served since the beginning and you never knew it.
You can't get no braver than a man or woman that will put thier life on the line to protect America. If someone takes a bullet for me I'm not going to ask how they prefer sex as a prerequsit before letting them protect me, and the ones I love.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
The Military has one purpose and that is to Protect the United States of America. It is not a place to do social "Experiments".

A Warship, Air Wing, or Battle Groups are just for that reason, when called upon they destroy an enemy.

Having women on a ship/battlefield is a bad idea to start with, space is very limited. Since Clinton changed the face of the military, there has to be two complete berthing and Bathing areas for both sexes. You have kids that are 18 to 22 years old with the testosterone at is peak and you need to be focused on the job, not the other's ass...

You throw a "Gay" factor into a place that has tight quarters (no pun) and you add another dimension that doesn't need to be there. If the policy was to keep your mouth shut and nobody asks, that is fine, but when you have a person who is openly gay, that is an issue. A "Normal" heterosexual isn't going to want to shower in a common area with the feeling that someone of the same sex is checking his/her assets out.

There is a lot of "Tepee Creeping" going on in the normal military as it is, you don't need to be in a battlefield wondering how your girl/boy friend is doing in the next fox hole or gun tub, you need to be worried about doing your job. Worrying about a "buddy" is not the same as worrying about your romantic partner.

I feel that if someone wants to tout their being gay, they should not be in the military. Sex is a choice we all can make, being born male, female, black, red, white or green is something we can't control, our sexual appetites are. I don't believe that gays shouldn't be discriminated because of the "Preferences" in the civilian world, but the military is not the same as the civilian world, you don't kill people as an occupation in Corporate Amercian...normally.

The gay movement has been so militant and in your face, that people are now starting to be brainwashed into that is "Normal", it isn't and never has been, if it was, then they could "father" their own children instead of recruiting.

I don't believe in women in active combat either for the same reasons, unless they want to have a total Woman's combat division where sex isn't an issue there either.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
You can't get no braver than a man or woman that will put thier life on the line to protect America. If someone takes a bullet for me I'm not going to ask how they prefer sex as a prerequsit before letting them protect me, and the ones I love.

Being "Brave" isn't the issue, I am sure that they can fight as well as anyone can.

Unit cohesion is the issue, and if you have a someone that causes some kind of friction in that unit, the unit will not be at 100% and their job is to kill the enemy, not get killed.

People tend to forget what the military's job is.

Patton once said, "You aren't suppose to die for your Country, you are suppose to make the other poor bastard die for his".
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
:whistle:

[ame="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/187304/village_people_in_the_navy/"]Village People - In The Navy - Video[/ame]
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
Unit cohesion is the issue, and if you have a someone that causes some kind of friction in that unit, the unit will not be at 100% and their job is to kill the enemy, not get killed.
Personally I think when they allowed women to be side by side with men...all the Unit cohesion went out the window, because they will all be trying to protect the female.
 

nixon

Boned
GOLD Site Supporter
Personally I think when they allowed women to be side by side with men...all the Unit cohesion went out the window, because they will all be trying to protect the female.

Tell that to Lil Nixon who served 20+ years . Or My daughter Who is on Her second term of enlistment . :hide:
 

rback33

Hangin in Tornado Alley
SUPER Site Supporter
Tell that to Lil Nixon who served 20+ years . Or My daughter Who is on Her second term of enlistment . :hide:

You make a good point here... I am most interested in the opinions of those serving or those that HAVE served. I don't feel I have a real dog in the fight having never served myself. I know many of the respondents HAVE served and I hope more reply still.
 

mak2

Active member
I voted no. I am not against gay marriage, or in any way think they should not serve. But the question said openly gay. I dont think, even though I do not care a bit in real life, that I would be too crazy about spending several days in a hole with an overbearing gay guy. The key word is overbearing. I know there were gays even in the Marine Corps (sorry Chesty) sometimes is it pretty obvious. If there is a rule against being open, that would completely stop them hitting on straights, some homophobes that really bothers (usually I am honored).
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
Tell that to Lil Nixon who served 20+ years . Or My daughter Who is on Her second term of enlistment . :hide:
I have never served, and I think I mentioned in past posts how much I respect men and Women that serve....so please don't misunderstand that.
We were talking about how a gay person would may cause unit cohesion. I just know how men are as civilians, and it's their nature to be protective of a female. I have trouble believing that a man would not at some point have his mind on where the female is and how she's fairing in gun fire. Just like it could be distracting for a gay man to be in the mix.
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
"Since World War II..110,000 Americans have been discharged from the military for being gay or lesbian.
Tens of thousands of others have served in secrecy, with distinction.
Some have given their lives in defense of freedom.
The Don't Ask Don't Tell policy tramples the principles they died protecting.
It rips at the fabric of liberty that so many thousands have died defending".
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
Well Hell ! I always thought they bleed red blood just like every other American soldier out there . Guess I was wrong again ...:neutral:
I honestly think that the last thing on there mind ,if they are in a fire fight, is going to be whether or not they get a "little nookie" from their team mates .
 
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