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Unemployment Rate Drops

Cowboy

Wait for it.
GOLD Site Supporter
I read that earlier from a different source, and I still dont beleive it. I think its far higher then that, but dont have any proof. :unsure:
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
I read this too. I like Cowboy have doubts it if really is true. It seems in my field this is not so. If so then hopefully in a few months or six I will see business climb
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well those are the number released this morning but unemployment numbers are subject to say the least. The formula was changed in the early 80's as some federal employees where removed for some reason.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Well those are the number released this morning but unemployment numbers are subject to say the least. The formula was changed in the early 80's as some federal employees where removed for some reason.

Like the COLA and Inflation calculations, this oneis bogus as hell.

Does anyone but the White House truely believe that there has been no inflation? Three times the cash floatig about thanks to QE 1, 2 & 3.:ermm:

The number of people who simply said "Frack it" is about 300,000. They don't count as Unemployed anymore?

Does that mean Obama isn't worried about these the non working poor?

Then who, besides the union membership, and folks at Goldman Sachs, will vote for him?
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
I agree inflation is another bogus number as food, cloths, rent, insurance (all kinds), fuel etc have all gone up over the year. It is now just pretty much a gage to judge if things are getting better or worse but neither is really accurate in my opinion.
 

Cowboy

Wait for it.
GOLD Site Supporter
A related article.

Job gains in the U.S. picked up last month and the unemployment rate unexpectedly fell to the lowest level since March 2009, a decline augmented by the departure of Americans from the labor force.
Payrolls climbed 120,000, after a revised 100,000 increase in October, with more than half the hiring coming from retailers and temporary help agencies, Labor Department figures showed today in Washington. The median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey called for a 125,000 gain. The jobless rate declined to 8.6 percent from 9 percent.
“It’s good news, not great news,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts, whose forecast matched the survey median. “The labor market is gradually healing.”
The Obama administration used the data to push for an extension of a payroll-tax cut it says is needed to maintain the expansion and reduce the jobless rate further. At the same time, the report damped speculation that Federal Reserve policy makers meeting on Dec. 13 will embark on another round of large-scale asset purchases.
The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index (SPX) advanced 0.4 percent to 1,250.02 at 11:56 a.m. New York time, paring an earlier gain of as much as 1.3 percent. The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 31.97 points, or 0.3 percent, to 12,052 today. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note fell to 2.06 percent from 2.09 percent late yesterday.
Europe Crisis
There are also signs Europe’s troubles may be starting to ease. A European proposal to channel central bank loans through the International Monetary Fund may deliver as much as 200 billion euros ($270 billion) to fight the debt crisis, two people familiar with the negotiations said.
At a Nov. 29 meeting attended by European Central Bank President Mario Draghi, euro-area finance ministers gave the go- ahead for work on the plan, said the people, who declined to be named because the talks are at an early stage.
Europe’s debt crisis has been a source of uncertainty on the outlook for the U.S. economy, prompting companies such as DirecTV (DTV) to keep a tight rein on spending and employment.
“We’re tightening our belts in terms of spending,” Michael White, chief executive officer of the largest U.S. satellite-TV provider, said in an interview last week. “We’ll cut back on overhead, hiring and programming.”
Among companies expanding payrolls is Boeing Co. (BA), the largest U.S. aircraft maker. The Chicago-based company is hiring about 100 machinists a week as it boosts production by about 60 percent over three years to whittle down a backlog that now stretches to nearly 4,000 aircraft.
Household Survey

The unemployment rate, derived from a separate survey of households, was forecast to hold at 9 percent. The decrease in the jobless rate reflected a 278,000 gain in employment at the same time 315,000 Americans left the labor force.
“You’d like to see the unemployment rate coming down when people are coming into the job market, not disappearing,” James Glassman, senior economist at JP Morgan Chase & Co. in New York, said in a radio interview on “Bloomberg Surveillance” with Tom Keene.
President Barack Obama said the drop in the jobless rate is a sign the recovery is getting stronger, and extending a cut in the payroll tax will provide more fuel for the economy.
“We need to keep that growth going,” Obama said after he and former President Bill Clinton toured a building in Washington to promote a government and private industry initiative to upgrade the energy efficiency of public and commercial buildings that the administration says will help create construction jobs.
Holiday Hiring

Employment at service-providers increased 126,000 in November, including a 50,000 gain in retail trade as companies began hiring for the holiday shopping season. The number of temporary workers increased 22,300.
Macy’s Inc. (M), the second-biggest U.S. department-store chain, increased mostly part-time staff by 4 percent for the November-December shopping season. See’s Candies Inc., a chocolate maker owned by Berkshire Hathaway Inc., said it would add 5,500 mostly temporary workers.
Revisions to prior reports added a total of 72,000 jobs to payrolls in September and October.
Private hiring, which excludes government agencies, rose 140,000 after a revised gain of 117,000. Still, factory payroll growth slowed and construction employment dropped.
Government payrolls decreased by 20,000 in November, including a 16,000 decline on the state and local levels.
Limited Wage Gains

Even as payrolls grow, limited wage gains are restraining consumers’ ability to boost spending, which accounts for about 70 percent of the economy. Average hourly earnings fell 0.1 percent to $23.18, today’s report showed. The average work week for all workers held at 34.3 hours.
The so-called underemployment rate -- which includes part- time workers who’d prefer a full-time position and people who want work but have given up looking -- decreased to 15.6 percent from 16.2 percent.
The report also showed an increase in long-term unemployed Americans. The number of people unemployed for 27 weeks or more increased as a percentage of all jobless, rose to 43 percent from 42.4 percent.
Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and his colleagues last month cut economic growth forecasts for 2012 and said unemployment will average 8.5 percent to 8.7 percent in the final three months of next year, up from a prior range of 7.8 percent to 8.2 percent.
Global Demand

Growth in the U.S. and other advanced economies “has been proceeding too slowly to provide jobs for millions of unemployed people,” Fed Vice Chairman Janet Yellen said in a Nov. 29 speech in San Francisco. She called for “urgent” international action to combat a “dearth” of global demand.
“Whether the swoon in the unemployment rate is legitimate or not, the doves on the Fed have just been sidelined from advocating QE3, at least for the next few months,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Pierpont Securities LLC in Stamford, Connecticut, referring to a third round of asset purchases.
Six central banks led by the Fed acted on Nov. 30 to make more funds available to lenders to preserve the global expansion. The move came after European leaders said they failed to boost the region’s bailout fund as much as planned, fueling concern about a possible breakup of the euro bloc.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...declines-to-8-6-payrolls-rise-by-120-000.html
 

Kane

New member
Absolute lies, lies and more lies.

Here's how it works: 140,000 jobs created (allegedly). 380,000 quit looking for work. So the 38K come off the unemployment rolls. So, by the Obama intentionally twisted logic, the reduction to the unemployment roll (or total added jobs) is 420,000. The rate goes down to 8.9%. Or whatever.

Lies, lies and more lies. Obama will pull this shit every month until the election.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Actually this information comes based on a formula as I mentioned earlier that was changed in the early 80's. This is government numbers and has little to do with Obama or who ever is president at the time. It is the same formula used when it was 10% and now 8.6% nothing has changed regardless. Oh and this information has been put out every month since we started tracking employment rates in this country.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Well not that I don't aggree that Obama's administration is misleading the unemoyment stats by a wide margin, but this time of year the national employment stats do normally go down a tad.

There is a lot of hiring going on for the Christmas season, although most is minimum wage, the people are technically employed and the numbers look better, but really don't paint a positive picture, because after the first of the year they will all be laid off...

Pretty crappy for those that truely want to better themselves and work, but can't because of the economy that the liberals are creating. The regulation are so intense that companies can't afford to manufacture here and leave. Just sucks. You need to have manufacturing to be a country.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Perhaps fogtender if the congress got off its ass and would stop giving tax breaks to companies leaving the US perhaps we would have some real manufacturing jobs in this country again.
 

Galvatron

Spock and Galvatron < one and the same
with the shit about to kick of with Iran i think the unemployed are about to get a shock with a call up.... worrying times ahead.....i honestly think this is not going to be a very merry christams:sad:

i do hope i am wrong for the sake of my kids and my grandkids.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Perhaps fogtender if the congress got off its ass and would stop giving tax breaks to companies leaving the US perhaps we would have some real manufacturing jobs in this country again.


Let's also add in Government regulations and labor costs. That would also help keep manufacturing here.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Let's also add in Government regulations and labor costs. That would also help keep manufacturing here.

As for regulations I have no idea if that will ever change. Now as for labor costs perhaps if employers wasn't responsible to pay parts of the labor insurance costs and health insurance was reasonable, but that is a lot of ifs. however there is a lot of money paid out to those that have taken their manufacturing overseas in tax breaks. Perhaps it is time to actually tax them more to import here.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Well we are shutting down Camp Victory in Iraq today so perhaps they will hold those guy in Kuwait to see what comes of it all. Unemployment numbers will be juggled by the labor dept. all the way to election time. The one thing they can't juggle is inflation and high fuel prices. Folks see that in empty cupboards and empty fuel tanks as they shiver with heat assistance cut back. That will not improve before election time and I hope the votes reflect what has been done by this president and his socialist movement. They spiel one thing but still pander to the banks and wall street for their donations.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Perhaps fogtender if the congress got off its ass and would stop giving tax breaks to companies leaving the US perhaps we would have some real manufacturing jobs in this country again.

Great Post! The Congress has allowed the EPA (and othe agencies) to regulate the American manufacturing companies right out of business if they stayed here, leaving to friendly countries is what kept them from closing completely. Now the ones remaining are being Taxed some of the highest levels in the world to pay for massive social programs for people not to work.

We as a Country are going broke from chasing off the geese that lay the golden eggs.

Then we bail out the really bad companies too boot at the taxpayers expense. Chase off the money makers and support the thief's, yeah that was a great idea, which operate under Congress's laws.

That is what upsets me about the OWS crowd, they aren't in Washinton where the problem is at. Show up at the White House and protest.

We aren't in trouble because we taxed too little, we are in trouble because we spend too much.
 

Kane

New member
A related article.

“Whether the swoon in the unemployment rate is legitimate or not, the doves on the Fed have just been sidelined from advocating QE3, at least for the next few months,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Pierpont Securities LLC in Stamford, Connecticut, referring to a third round of asset purchases.
Six central banks led by the Fed acted on Nov. 30 to make more funds available to lenders to preserve the global expansion. The move came after European leaders said they failed to boost the region’s bailout fund as much as planned, fueling concern about a possible breakup of the euro bloc.

Maybe I'm just stoopid, but where do the trillions and trillions of imaginary dollars come from that the Fed "invents" to "loan" out foreign central banks? Do we actually believe that these USD's ever come back out of the money supply?
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
As for regulations I have no idea if that will ever change. Now as for labor costs perhaps if employers wasn't responsible to pay parts of the labor insurance costs and health insurance was reasonable, but that is a lot of ifs. however there is a lot of money paid out to those that have taken their manufacturing overseas in tax breaks. Perhaps it is time to actually tax them more to import here.

Agreed on the tax breaks to those leaving, it should not happen. Yes Corporate could take less in earnings and wages but we still have to get our labor costs down. It is dam hard for any business paying assembly line workers $25.00 and hour when competing with other countries at $5.00 an hour. Maybe I stretched the difference you get my point. It amazes me that we can partly manufacture something here in the States, ship the partially manufactured product to Korea or China and then bring it back to the States for less that what we can do the complete process ourselves.

And Foggy is right on the restricktions
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
Well we are shutting down Camp Victory in Iraq today so perhaps they will hold those guy in Kuwait to see what comes of it all. Unemployment numbers will be juggled by the labor dept. all the way to election time. The one thing they can't juggle is inflation and high fuel prices. Folks see that in empty cupboards and empty fuel tanks as they shiver with heat assistance cut back. That will not improve before election time and I hope the votes reflect what has been done by this president and his socialist movement. They spiel one thing but still pander to the banks and wall street for their donations.


Sadly I think we should have bombed Sadam and never put a boot in his country, let his generals run the show. Wouldn't have been pretty, but Iran wouldn't be set free to build nukes either. Now we are cutting tail and running, we will be back there all over again because no body pays attention to history.
 

Kane

New member
Well we are shutting down Camp Victory in Iraq today so perhaps they will hold those guy in Kuwait to see what comes of it all. Unemployment numbers will be juggled by the labor dept. all the way to election time. The one thing they can't juggle is inflation and high fuel prices. Folks see that in empty cupboards and empty fuel tanks as they shiver with heat assistance cut back. That will not improve before election time and I hope the votes reflect what has been done by this president and his socialist movement. They spiel one thing but still pander to the banks and wall street for their donations.

What would be more astounding is if the government would actually include the rising costs of food and fuel in the basket of goods when calculating the rate of inflation.

Lies, lies and more lies.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
The one thing they can't juggle is inflation and high fuel prices..
Sure they can (and do).

IIRC within the past couple years, they changed what products are used to calculate inflation (and don't quote me but they removed food and maybe fuel from the equation).
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Agreed on the tax breaks to those leaving, it should not happen. Yes Corporate could take less in earnings and wages but we still have to get our labor costs down. It is dam hard for any business paying assembly line workers $25.00 and hour when competing with other countries at $5.00 an hour. Maybe I stretched the difference you get my point. It amazes me that we can partly manufacture something here in the States, ship the partially manufactured product to Korea or China and then bring it back to the States for less that what we can do the complete process ourselves.

And Foggy is right on the restricktions

I'm not doubting it, but this is the job of congress to fix for the most part. They are too busy running for reelection and fighting over some made up BS to do the their job, but then I have my doubts as to who they really work for.

In my opinion it really makes little difference who is president when it comes to our problems as Congress handles the money, sets the rules even for the EPA. Presidents don't add ruless but they can choose to not enforce them.
 

Kane

New member
Agreed on the tax breaks to those leaving, it should not happen. Yes Corporate could take less in earnings and wages but we still have to get our labor costs down. It is dam hard for any business paying assembly line workers $25.00 and hour when competing with other countries at $5.00 an hour. Maybe I stretched the difference you get my point. It amazes me that we can partly manufacture something here in the States, ship the partially manufactured product to Korea or China and then bring it back to the States for less that what we can do the complete process ourselves.

And Foggy is right on the restricktions

In my view, it is futile to tax corporations in the first place, as the tax is simply passed on to the consumer as a cost of doing business. To encourage manufacuring in the USofA, the corporate tax rate should be zero, made up for with an increased tax on the personal incomes of the corporateers.

Thus, the lower cost of American made goods can't help but decrease the import/export imbalance, and keep more jobs here.

The corporateers could move to another country if they want, but they would leave their plants and the jobs in America.

.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
In my view, it is futile to tax corporations in the first place, as the tax is simply passed on to the consumer as a cost of doing business. To encourage manufacturing in the USofA, the corporate tax rate should be zero, made up for with an increased tax on the personal incomes of the corporates.

Thus, the lower cost of American made goods can't help but decrease the import/export imbalance, and keep more jobs here.

I have to agree Kane, corporate taxes is a bad idea since it is passed along to the consumer. By the same token some of the largest richest corporations pay zero now due to the corporate welfare system we have put in place for decades now. We need to simplify and fix our tax code period and have also needed to for a long time now. But again this is the job of congress that won't do it.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Absolute lies, lies and more lies.

Here's how it works: 140,000 jobs created (allegedly). 380,000 quit looking for work. So the 38K come off the unemployment rolls. So, by the Obama intentionally twisted logic, the reduction to the unemployment roll (or total added jobs) is 420,000. The rate goes down to 8.9%. Or whatever.

Lies, lies and more lies. Obama will pull this shit every month until the election.

You got it Kane. Just more fuzzy Washington math.

The way it was explained to me was was that as people came to the end of their unemployment benefits, they fell off the register. They no longer receive benefits so therefore they are no longer officially unemployed. They haven't found work or gone away, they are just no longer counted. In one sweep of the pen, unemployment falls to below 9%. I did read one report that the actual unemployment rate is above 11%, very nearly at 12%.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
You got it Kane. Just more fuzzy Washington math.

The way it was explained to me was was that as people came to the end of their unemployment benefits, they fell off the register. They no longer receive benefits so therefore they are no longer officially unemployed. They haven't found work or gone away, they are just no longer counted. In one sweep of the pen, unemployment falls to below 9%. I did read one report that the actual unemployment rate is above 11%, very nearly at 12%.

You are correct and this has been since the rule which was change of the early 80's. It sure helped Reagan take the number from the high of Carter down for Reagan's reelection to a second term. Though in all honesty nothing had really improved except perceptions at that time.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
You are correct and this has been since the rule which was change of the early 80's. It sure helped Reagan take the number from the high of Carter down for Reagan's reelection to a second term. Though in all honesty nothing had really improved except perceptions at that time.

The fuzzy math may have helped Reagan somewhat as well, but he also dropped taxes and gave credits and the economy took off, didn't happen overnight, but it did start an upward spiral instead of a tailspin.

By the end of Reagan's term, the economy was doing pretty well, I remember what it was like when Carter got done with it and Reagan started out with record inflation and unemployment. Interest was in the 28%+- range if you wanted to buy a car when Carter left office and gas lines were blocks long to buy ten gallons of gas.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I saw this morning and again tonite where companies have skilled jobs going begging becuse there are no tradesmen tofill them.
Perhaps instead of teaching our children that dirty work was beneath them we should have impressed upon our progeny the value of a good days work.

And on another note, Why have the trade unions not stepped forward here with apprenticed journeymen ready to fill these high paing , $60K to $80K jobs with security and benefits?
machinist, electricians, pipefitters, welders are needed and we have apparently trained none to fill those positions.

I would hazard a guess that the boys and girls coming home from Camp Freedom Iraq, will gladly fill those slots. But that still leaves the current unemployable,,,,,unemployed.

Unions have only one valuable asset to bring to the table,,,,,,,skilled labor. Perhaps the should stop demostrating at TEA party events,,,, stop and bitching about Corporate greed, and just get to it.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
The fuzzy math may have helped Reagan somewhat as well, but he also dropped taxes and gave credits and the economy took off, didn't happen overnight, but it did start an upward spiral instead of a tailspin.

By the end of Reagan's term, the economy was doing pretty well, I remember what it was like when Carter got done with it and Reagan started out with record inflation and unemployment. Interest was in the 28%+- range if you wanted to buy a car when Carter left office and gas lines were blocks long to buy ten gallons of gas.

Yes I remember what it was like when Carter left office and I also remember what it was like under Nixon also which wasn't pretty either. Pretty much as bad as I though it could get until now in my life time. You also seem to gloss over the tax increases under Reagan also after his cut.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Yes I remember what it was like when Carter left office and I also remember what it was like under Nixon also which wasn't pretty either. Pretty much as bad as I though it could get until now in my life time. You also seem to gloss over the tax increases under Reagan also after his cut.
As many do who also forget that the Democratic leadershiop agreed to cut spending and programs if he did agree to increases. They did the same sham lies to Bush 41 and the press blamed him as well.

And now Barry is trying the same thing. Promises of real spending cuts or as he calls it "balance" if only the GOP would allow taxes on the "most fortunate amoung us."

The GOP isn't fallin' for it and so now, once again they are the bad guys. I'm rooting for them but it appears they will once again falter. And the cycle of spending more than we can afford continues.

TEA's wouldn't,,.,,so,,,,they get my vote.
 
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