Router and table saw ?'s

I have been pressured into building some shelves/bookcases for the family room and dining room as well as putting up crown molding. I need a router and have never owned one before. I have looked at Lowes, HD and Sears. Should I get a plunge router or a fixed router? I don't think I need a professional model since I will just be doing projects around the house and garage.

I have not done very much woodworking at all but there are several indoor projects that I will probably be consripted for over the winter months. I already have a Ridgid brand power compound miter saw. I am also looking to get a table saw. Home Depot has a nice portable table saw (I could move it into the room that I am working in), "Ridgid" brand.

If I get a few high profile projects completed I will have more leverage to get a larger tractor and FEL next spring. Any suggestions on brands, models?? thanks

I have a Porter Cable brand router set. It cost under $200 and comes with a Plunge Base and regluar base. Further, the brand is so common that the base bolts into most brands of router tables without any modifications.

Like Bob, I too have the Porter Cable. Excellent machine and quite versatile. This is one of those things they are good at.

I totally spaced out your question on TABLE SAWS. Just like tractors, you need to look at your needs. Heavier is generally better with table saws, but that can get us into all sorts of silly discussions.

If you want to attempt to build a piece of furniture, then you want to avoid the contractor grade portable table saws. Those are typically fairly small units and probably what you are looking at. The other end of the spectrum are cabinet saws, they are big heavy and mega big buck investments.

For the folks like me who just dabble around, I recommend a glorified version of the portable saws. RYOBI makes one that I like a lot, and it is what I own. It is a modest price, probably about $450? (mine is about 3 or 4 years old so I'm not up on prices) I believe Craftsman has a similar saw. The thing to look for is a LARGE table, preferably a LARGE ADJUSTABLE table, and even better is a LARGE ADJUSTABLE SLIDING table. You want positive locks on the rip fence so it clamps tightly at both the front and the back and you want to have alignment grooves/marks/etc to make sure the rip fence is locked in parallel to the blade.

The problem with making a bookcase/etc on a portable contractors saw is they are really not designed for that stuff, you can do it, but its like mowing the lawn with a big heavy Kioti (sorry couldn't resist). The portable contractors saws are easy to move around but that is not what you want when you are making furiture! My Ryobi is about the same weight, but has a large table by comparison (with the sliding top) so it makes it easy to rip with precision (nothing worse than sloppy joints on furniture).

As a side benefit, some of the table saws also have a router table built into them so you don't need a separate router table. On the saw in the photo below you will notice a circular hole on the right side of the blade, that is the mounting hole for the router (you bolt it on from underneath) after you move the sliding rails & the router top over to the side.

Whatever you do, get a good base for your table saw. The heavier the better. The picture shows the newer version of my saw, I didn't buy their base, mine is on a solid cabinet style base. Cast iron tables are better, solid tables are better, bigger tables are better. Really depends on what you want to spend, how often you are going to use it and what you are using it on. Again, I'm just a dabbler so the modest Ryobi works very well for my needs.

Viking; After owning two Crapman versions of table saws, I sprung the big bucks and wound up with a Delta. It's the model just below the Unisaw cabinet saw. It has a tableboard on the right of the blade. The blade is left tilting, with a castiron table and wing on the left. On the right, you can see the 32" tableboard, with Delta's UniFence. The whole thing sits on a UTC mobile base. You could easily cut a hole thru the tableboard to mount a router if you'd like. Total weight is around 300-350#. I like this setup. I'm going to have to disagree with Bob though. This is a contractor version tablesaw. I think what Bob referred to was one the portable saws that you mount on saw horses somehow. Wouldn't rely on one of those for diddly. I bought this one 6 years ago for around $700 I think.

On routers, anything with Porter/Cable on them is a good one. They have a nice little 690, 1 1/2 horse model that is very reasonable, and you can get different bases for them. If I was to have just one base, I'd get the plunge base. You can lock it and use it like a fixed base if you want. If your going to do very much woodworking, I'd get at least a 2 1/2HP model. PC makes them also. Notice I said "woodworking", a woodworker and carpenter are two different things, although one could be both.

Welcome to my nightmare mess!!!

johnday said:

I'm going to have to disagree with Bob though. This is a contractor version tablesaw. I think what Bob referred to was one the portable saws that you mount on saw horses somehow. Wouldn't rely on one of those for diddly.

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John, I'm not sure we disagree at all. The little portable contractor table saws are the ones I was saying he should avoid. That is what you are saying he should avoid too. But Viking said he was looking for something portable.

As for saw types, I think yours is what mine would look like after mine grows up. There is a pretty big step between what I have and what you have in terms of quality with yours being better by a wide margin.


Below is the type of saw I think you and I are both talking about. It is great for a jobsite, great for rough cutting, but not what you want for trim work, cabinets, etc. The top is too small, the adjustments not precise, and the base is too easy to move while cutting.

Hi Bob; Went back and reread your post. We do agree afterall! Geez, it's been another of those weeks.

Ryobi makes some very high quality tools. I've looked at the saw you have, as well as their routers and other power tools. I had a Ryobi jig saw, what used to be called a "sabresaw". It got ripped off when my tool trailer got broken into a couple years ago. I replaced it with a Bosch, and now that ones gone too! That's the 3rd sabresaw I've lost in 4 years!

Viking could get a Crapman tablesaw for around $500 I think, and if he found out he wanted to keep making things, he'd have a good base saw, that he could sell without much problem, and then upgrade. I had no trouble selling either of the ones I had. Although, there are a lot of guys that are satisfied with theirs, and use them for years, I just wasn't one of them.

Would you beleive that Delta of mine is touted as being portable? Not this guy though! My back has been injured enough! Those little saws we misunderstood on are really not made for super accurate cuts and repeatable setups just like you said. I thought I might like one once, but tried it, and went back to my circular saw. With a little practice and a lot of experience, I found the circsaw to be just as accurate and more dependable for what I would use on site. I do take my 12" DeWalt mitre saw on site alot. But that's another story.

My .02

Stay away...no, make that Run away from Blowes and Home Cheepo. Majority of the power tools are junk made with plastic guts. I realize you need to control costs for the sake of a larger tractor, but don't sell yourself short. You could end up buying the same tool twice if bought from a big box. I would even take a Crapsman over big box. I have several brands of several tools...Bosch, Porter Cable, Makita and Dewalt. Any of those are good if not excellent, just some are more $$$ than others. Amazon, Tool Crib, etc are good sources for these and decent prices too.

One other point worth mentioning...buy a CMS for crown molding. Table saws will work, but lotsa of fudging to get a good fit. The CMS will give you the precision that crown molding requires.

Viking; BA brought up a very good point. I've dealt with ToolCriboftheNorth for years. You could say they're the Markham Welding of the tool world. They're connected with Amazon somehow, but you can still deal with them direct the last time I replaced tools. Best place I've ever dealt with in that respect. I highly recommend them, and the prices are reasonable too.
Another thing, CMS is Compound Mitre Saw, buch metter than a tablesaw. I've got the 12" DeWalt. Second one by the way. The first went with the rest of the stolen tools. Be careful with the sliders though. I had one on one job, sold it, and went back to just the fixed compound. I just didn't like it at all.

Wow!!! Thanks for all the great responses!! Thanks for the info on the portable table saws and I will try the other suggested sources other than HD and Lowes for a table saw. I looked at the Porter Cable routers today at Lowes they look like good routers to me.

Even though we have a fairly small membership on this site there seems to be a wealth of info...Thanks again guys

johnday said:

Viking; After owning two Crapman versions of table saws, I sprung the big bucks and wound up with a Delta. It's the model just below the Unisaw cabinet saw. It has a tableboard on the right of the blade. The blade is left tilting, with a castiron table and wing on the left. On the right, you can see the 32" tableboard, with Delta's UniFence. The whole thing sits on a UTC mobile base. You could easily cut a hole thru the tableboard to mount a router if you'd like. Total weight is around 300-350#. I like this setup. I'm going to have to disagree with Bob though. This is a contractor version tablesaw. I think what Bob referred to was one the portable saws that you mount on saw horses somehow. Wouldn't rely on one of those for diddly. I bought this one 6 years ago for around $700 I think.

On routers, anything with Porter/Cable on them is a good one. They have a nice little 690, 1 1/2 horse model that is very reasonable, and you can get different bases for them. If I was to have just one base, I'd get the plunge base. You can lock it and use it like a fixed base if you want. If your going to do very much woodworking, I'd get at least a 2 1/2HP model. PC makes them also. Notice I said "woodworking", a woodworker and carpenter are two different things, although one could be both.

Welcome to my nightmare mess!!!

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johnday, I was in Sears yesterday and they had several power tools in clearance bin. I thought I might as well check it out since I was looking for a router anyway....Well what do know...there it was, a Porter-Cable Router set Model 690 (as you suggested) with fixed and plunge bases. Regular price $239.95, clearance price $99.95!!! I jumped all over it. It's brand new, not reconditioned or a return! They also had a brand new Porter-Cable 3"x21" belt sander in the clearance bin for $74.95, jumped on that too...what the hell...

No table saw yet. I wish they had one stuffed in the clearance bin.

whoa, Good Deals Viking! You timed that one right! Way to go!

Viking; MOST EXCELLENT DEAL!!! Like I said, you can't go wrong with Porter/Cable stuff. You really fell into a deal! Hey, if you find out you don't like that router, I'll give you $125 and pay the shipping. I'm not kidding either!!

I always tell Jan when I run into a deal, "Well, I'm going to need it anyway". Just like that beltsander. Very nice shopping!

You definately scored Viking ...looks like being in the right place at the right time does make a difference.

Who knows, you might even get lucky with the table saw too.

BadAttitude said:

You definately scored Viking ...looks like being in the right place at the right time does make a difference.

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Yep, and I just screwed up. Read the post but didn't think it out.
I have a router and table saw I would have parted with for nominal consideration. I also drove right through central Maryland 4 times in the past 2 weeks so I could have delivered... My bad. Sorry.

"If I get a few high profile projects completed I will have more leverage to get a larger tractor and FEL next spring. Any suggestions on brands, models??"

John Deere!

Wannafish said:

"If I get a few high profile projects completed I will have more leverage to get a larger tractor and FEL next spring. Any suggestions on brands, models??"

John Deere!

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I suggest that you strongly consider a Kioti. They are heavy weigh machines and will do twice what any other tractor will do at half the price. Don't believe me, ask Bob. He is our resident Kioti expert. Just remember to change the oil regularly with Dinosaur Oil for a long lasting engine.

Junkman said:

I suggest that you strongly consider a Kioti. They are heavy weigh machines and will do twice what any other tractor will do at half the price. Don't believe me, ask Bob. He is our resident Kioti expert. Just remember to change the oil regularly with Dinosaur Oil for a long lasting engine.

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I already know what Kioti model Bob will strongly suggest, the CK25. He just loves the CK25. I believe Bob said on KBN: "The CK25 is the absolute best tractor and best tractor value available in the market today and if someone were to buy a tractor other than a CK25 they would have to be out of their minds." He went on to say: "If anybody buys a tractor other than a Kioti I hope you have a stroke and die a violent death." :14_6_12: So, after those strong comments, I think Bob is a big fan of Kioti tractors especially the CK25.

I went back to Sears today to see if there were any more good deals in the clearance bin. I found another one! A brand new, not returned, 12", 1hp, full size, floor standing, Craftsman Band Saw listed in the Craftsman Tool Catalog for $349.....in the clearance section for $116.95!!!! Can you dig it!!! I didn't even know I needed one until I saw it and the price. I couldn't just walk away from it, so I bought it! Now I have to come up with some projects to utilize the new band saw.

Man Vik!! You just keep falling in it, aren't you? Your getting some awful good deals. Maybe I should walk thru Sears once in awhile myself!!

There are some great deals out there if you look hard enough. I just bought a used 1/2" D handle Milwaukee drill for $25.00. Plus a like new Porter Cable 1 3/4 hp router and PC router table for $80.00. I have a Ridgid table saw that I bought from HD for $549.00 on sale. It is cast iron, heavy and well made.

JimR said:

There are some great deals out there if you look hard enough. I just bought a used 1/2" D handle Milwaukee drill for $25.00. Plus a like new Porter Cable 1 3/4 hp router and PC router table for $80.00. I have a Ridgid table saw that I bought from HD for $549.00 on sale. It is cast iron, heavy and well made.

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Yes, you have to keep a list in your head and always be scanning for the deals. They are there but they often show up when you aren't looking for them. I've got the same table saw as Jim but I was able to get it for 10% less due to some serious deal fanangling. It's a good saw and has served me well so far. Most of the Ridgid stuff has served me well.

I have an old craftsman, maybe 30 years old, bought it for I think $29 new. It is worth the $29. It has never failed me and since I am not using it professionally it does everything I need, when I need.
If you make your living with your tools you should buy professional (real professional) grade otherwise you tie up cash that could be spent on tractor trinkets, invested for retirement or spent on good whiskey. MHO.
PS, Porter Cable has slipped a notch or two over the years, still a very good tool though. Makita is right up there too.

All the best,
Martin

Himself said: "PS, Porter Cable has slipped a notch or two over the years, still a very good tool though."

C'mon Himself...you just shit on my Wheaties! I though I was really steppin' up with my Porter-Cable gear.....I guess I might as well go get some top of the line Harbor Freight equipment. You ruined my day....Damn it!

Viking, pick the shit off your Wheaties and eat them anyway. The Porter Cable stuff is still considered a premium brand, but it is down a bit from what it once was, which is a 'super-premium' brand.

What about the table saw? Have you found one yet?

johnday said:

Viking; MOST EXCELLENT DEAL!!! Like I said, you can't go wrong with Porter/Cable stuff.

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Viking,
you will be able to "will" the Porter-Cable products to your children. They are that good.

Now, for the router bits - take the money you saved and purchase good bits.

Like: CMT, Freud, Whiteside, or Jesada
Also, go with 1/2" shank bits whenever possible.

Just my $0.02

It's true Porter/Cable has dropped somewhat in quality, but I feel all the premium brands have somewhat. I own Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, and Bosch. All professional quality, but they all seem not quite as good for some reason as they used to. I use DeWart circ saws, they just fit me better than others. I bought a new PC circ awhile back, and I just didn't like it, even thought the quality was "still" there. All the big names, have tools I don't like, and all have some I like. Since they are all premium tools, it's how they fit me. I'm the dimwit that's going to be wearing them out, and they may as well be comfortable if I'm shelling out megabucks

B_Skurka said:

Viking, pick the shit off your Wheaties and eat them anyway. The Porter Cable stuff is still considered a premium brand, but it is down a bit from what it once was, which is a 'super-premium' brand.

What about the table saw? Have you found one yet?

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No table saw yet Bob. I liked the Ryobi at HD like the one you pictued in an earlier post. I think it will be that one for $299 or a Delta at Lowes for $399. The Delta has a cast iron table. Both look like good saws for my purposes which is just for projects around the house. I went to a store called "Woodcraft", they had some serious table saws costing some serious big cash. Much more saw than I need.

I have started putting up some crown molding. I already have a miter saw, that's all I really need for that. Using a regular hammer to put up crown molding is somewhat of a pain in the ass though. I looked at a Porter-Cable and Bostich 16ga air powered finish nailers today. Actually Lowes had a complete Bostich setup, 16ga and 18 finish nailers, compressor, hose, nails and fittings for $279 and Home Depot had the same setup in Porter Cable for $279. They both looked good to me but I have never used this kind of equipment before. Too bad Sears didn't have anything like this in the clearance bin...Damn it.

Just a thought, but if you are not planning on doing a lot of work, there are some battery powered staple guns that will shoot trim nails. Ryobi has an 18-volt consumer grade unit. I have one for taking projects. For my modest needs it is plenty good enough. I would not want to rely on it for a lot of work, but if you are just going to trim out a room or two, it is a handy tool and much less expense than a "real" trim nail gun and compressor.

I would go with the electric nailer/staple guns if possible too. Having a compressor is nice but these new electric guns are much more convenient. Great for trim work.

The compressor's you get with those kits usually are pretty light duty. Just remember to drain them after each use. Don't ask me how I know, all I can say is that I have a bigger better compressor now.

; )