Rebuilding a 1404 IMP

Hello, been reading the forum for quite awhile, have not participated much. I sure got allot of great information and ideas from others threads. Maybe this will help someone out. I Started rebuilding this IMP over a year ago and have made quite a bit of progress, Still a ways to go, might have it done in time for the snow to melt.

bdpeek said:

Hello, been reading the forum for quite awhile, have not participated much. I sure got allot of great information and ideas from others threads. Maybe this will help someone out. I Started rebuilding this IMP over a year ago and have made quite a bit of progress, Still a ways to go, might have it done in time for the snow to melt.

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Nice ROP's . Is that factory installed?

Your trailer looks interesting .
Nice ramp set up . Is it heavy to lift?

I would like to see more pictures of that .



!!!Welcome to the group !!!

Rops ha!, That rack was really nice and sturdy, You could walk around on it. Unfortunately it was heavy i'd guess over 400lbs, all two guys could do to drag it out of the garage into the driveway! It is now a pair of large jack stands, part of a welding table a screen over a large fire pit, and pile of scrap waiting for its next life, its hard to throw stuff out.

Here are a few pictures of the IMP when I first got started.

The fist one is of the upgraded suspension that came with the imp. I guess that they wanted/needed a little more ground clearance as they welded a chunk of two inch tubing to the bottom of the existing cross members. Much like what I read about in some of Nusster's posts. The rear cross member had been cut off at the body then butt welded back together and finally the 2" tubing welded under that.

The second picture shows the whole cross piece cut out in the rear and the lower tubing cut off the front, full length welds made that a fun job.

The last pic is the pile of junk that came off the suspension.

Aluminum Sheet

Here is a before and after picture of some of the aluminum sheeting. I used .064 IIRC, It is thicker than the original, well I used a large piece of a street sign for the bottom and the .064 for the sides and rear door.

Got some Cleco clamps and a plier off of ebay and they worked great. It would be really hard to do this type of work without the clamps, even with two people.

The frame was bent or broken all along the bottom of the machine so all that had to be replaced or straighted before sheeting it. This probably happened when the machine was used in the fall off of the snow for moose hunting, judging by the paint it was either a moose hunting rig or a Army strategic commando vehicle.

looks like you have your work cut out for you i had the same suspension lift added to my snow trac and had some extensive cutting and grinding to do to restore it back to the way its supposed to be good luck on yur project looks good

Why did you both choose to lower it back down? I am planning exactly that mod for my imp to get the body away from the track and to allow deeper cleats if need be.

Bulldog1401 said:

Why did you both choose to lower it back down? I am planning exactly that mod for my imp to get the body away from the track and to allow deeper cleats if need be.

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mine is a snow trac and i have plenty of belly clearance for any thing i need to go over the and when they modified mine the front suspension was torched out and a bug front axle was cobbeled in i wanted to restor my suspension to the way it was because of the reliability i dont like putting tracks back on and i don't like fixing other peoples unengineered modifications in the field couldn't even winch it on to the trailer with out breaking stuff.

Bulldog1401 said:

Why did you both choose to lower it back down? I am planning exactly that mod for my imp to get the body away from the track and to allow deeper cleats if need be.

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Hello Bulldog,

The original cross members on mine had been cut off at the body and re welded it was to weak to keep. Some other problems are that the extra tubing was below the bottom skin creating drag in the snow, a idler wheel was added to keep the track off the top of the springs and cross members and didn't do a good job, the rear end was cocked at a odd angle and lowered, and in the end it really didn't add that much lift to the cat. It weighed a ton and the benefits are minimal IMO. Getting away from the drop center tracks would add more lift than this setup.

Bobby

Painting and prep

Painting this thing was time consuming, cleaning and prepping it was the real pain. The original paint used seemed to be a tar like undercoating with paint applied over the top?

Some sections were flaking off in large section while other parts seemed to have rather good adhesion. After trying numerous wire wheels, scrapers, and even sandblasting. the fastest way to remove this coating seemed to be a heat gun and a chisel, section by section, then washing down with gasoline and plenty of rags. I know unsafe and flammable but gas worked great when acetone, mineral spirits, xylene hardly dissolved the tar.

After all the tar was scraped and cleaned everything was sanded with 60 grit wiped with acetone and primed immediately. Painted after 24 hours. Has worked real good so far over both aluminum and steel parts. I used industrial alkaloid enamel from Devoe called bar-ox with a aluminum primer also from Devoe, used the aluminum primer over both aluminum and steel as recommended by Devoe. This paint takes a long time to dry compared to other paints but stands up great in the field and is super easy to touch up.

Re: Painting and prep

bdpeek said:

Painting this thing was time consuming, cleaning and prepping it was the real pain. The original paint used seemed to be a tar like undercoating with paint applied over the top?

Some sections were flaking off in large section while other parts seemed to have rather good adhesion. After trying numerous wire wheels, scrapers, and even sandblasting. the fastest way to remove this coating seemed to be a heat gun and a chisel, section by section, then washing down with gasoline and plenty of rags. I know unsafe and flammable but gas worked great when acetone, mineral spirits, xylene hardly dissolved the tar.

After all the tar was scraped and cleaned everything was sanded with 60 grit wiped with acetone and primed immediately. Painted after 24 hours. Has worked real good so far over both aluminum and steel parts. I used industrial alkaloid enamel from Devoe called bar-ox with a aluminum primer also from Devoe, used the aluminum primer over both aluminum and steel as recommended by Devoe. This paint takes a long time to dry compared to other paints but stands up great in the field and is super easy to touch up.

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industeial enamal is what i used to i wanted my snow trac to look good but didn't expect to be showing a rig that i also work in or go through brush and like yu sid easy to touch up as far as stripping paint if you ever have to do it again try soaking a rag with laquer thinner and laying it out on your surface the rag will keep it from evaporating and let it penetrate your coating to soften it up. a trick an old sighn painter tought me.

dds said:

mine is a snow trac and i have plenty of belly clearance for any thing i need to go over the and when they modified mine the front suspension was torched out and a bug front axle was cobbeled in i wanted to restor my suspension to the way it was because of the reliability i dont like putting tracks back on and i don't like fixing other peoples unengineered modifications in the field couldn't even winch it on to the trailer with out breaking stuff.

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bdpeek said:

Hello Bulldog,

The original cross members on mine had been cut off at the body and re welded it was to weak to keep. Some other problems are that the extra tubing was below the bottom skin creating drag in the snow, a idler wheel was added to keep the track off the top of the springs and cross members and didn't do a good job, the rear end was cocked at a odd angle and lowered, and in the end it really didn't add that much lift to the cat. It weighed a ton and the benefits are minimal IMO. Getting away from the drop center tracks would add more lift than this setup.

Bobby

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Thanks for your explanations. They make perfect sense for each case. I am thinking about doing the 2" heavy tube completely across each axle (from track to track) fabbing a sub (skid plate) that geos the length of the machine from front to rear, and putting the plastic that they use on snow plows (kinda like high fax) on the bottom of it to reduce the drag. No real increase in ground clearance, but it gets the floorboards away from the tracks a little more, and will keep the track from beating the exhaust to death. When I got it the previous owner had run it with the tracks rubbing the floorboards (and making holes in them in the process) and had ripped the exhaust off with the tracks. The rear axle geometery is something that I have not thought a lot about, and I wonder if I have to rotate it at all really. I would appreciate hearing about anybody else's experience in doing something simular with this or any other type of machine. The sub pan is intended to A. reduce drag with the new axles, and B. provide a little protectionif I should hit something buried in the snow that would otherwise punch up through the bottom and take out the oil pan etc..

Oh, by the way, outstanding work guys!

Nice job on your imp!!! OH did I tell you I really like the color you are paint it.

Bulldog1401 said:

Thanks for your explanations. They make perfect sense for each case. I am thinking about doing the 2" heavy tube completely across each axle (from track to track) fabbing a sub (skid plate) that geos the length of the machine from front to rear, and putting the plastic that they use on snow plows (kinda like high fax) on the bottom of it to reduce the drag. No real increase in ground clearance, but it gets the floorboards away from the tracks a little more, and will keep the track from beating the exhaust to death. When I got it the previous owner had run it with the tracks rubbing the floorboards (and making holes in them in the process) and had ripped the exhaust off with the tracks. The rear axle geometery is something that I have not thought a lot about, and I wonder if I have to rotate it at all really. I would appreciate hearing about anybody else's experience in doing something simular with this or any other type of machine. The sub pan is intended to A. reduce drag with the new axles, and B. provide a little protectionif I should hit something buried in the snow that would otherwise punch up through the bottom and take out the oil pan etc..

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I'm no imp expertbut took a look at some pics of em looks likr the rear body has quiet a bit of clearance if uou want to lift it for more track clearance might consider leaving the rear axle alone and just raising the suspension that will keep youy drive sprokets futher away fom the ground and give you more of an angle at the rear wich might improve your preformance when backing out of a basd situation.

Thank you,

dds - That is a great tip never heard that tip before, but I can see how it should work great, also gotta be safer working in a shop filled with gasoline fumes. I still have to strip allot of paint from the top and I will try it on that for sure. Thank you.

Bulldog1401 - Actually, The oil pan on mine had been hit with something and cracked had to weld it up due to the leaks, It had obviously been used in some pretty extreme conditions for a IMP. The sub floor sounds like it would add some protection, and reduce drag. Not real sure about the rear end? I know that mine was dropped a few inches in the rear while the front remained in the same position, the front mount was bent at a angle. I would think that the rear driver (sprocket?) would have to be lowered thus dropping the top of the track away from the body? I may be wrong, would have to give think about it some.

Cabinboy - Thank you, I like that color too, I have about five gallons of that paint so everything I own turn out to be yellow.

Bobby

bdpeek said:

Thank you,

dds - That is a great tip never heard that tip before, but I can see how it should work great, also gotta be safer working in a shop filled with gasoline fumes. I still have to strip allot of paint from the top and I will try it on that for sure. Thank you.

Bulldog1401 - Actually, The oil pan on mine had been hit with something and cracked had to weld it up due to the leaks, It had obviously been used in some pretty extreme conditions for a IMP. The sub floor sounds like it would add some protection, and reduce drag. Not real sure about the rear end? I know that mine was dropped a few inches in the rear while the front remained in the same position, the front mount was bent at a angle. I would think that the rear driver (sprocket?) would have to be lowered thus dropping the top of the track away from the body? I may be wrong, would have to give think about it some.

Cabinboy - Thank you, I like that color too, I have about five gallons of that paint so everything I own turn out to be yellow.

Bobby

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just remember that gasoline has high amounts of benzine in it and that is a cancer causing agent unleaded is as bad for you as leaded

If you haven't seen it already, one of the members here "Nutsster" did amazing modifications to his 1402 Imp. It's worth finding the post and checking it out.

Engine

Rebuilding the engine is one of the first things I did when I got the IMP. I will try to remember as much as I can, in the event someone wants to rebuild one. I'm not sure that I would reuse this engine given the lack/expense of parts. Every thing I learned about these engines has been from the web and in talking with machine shop and parts guys. I am no expert on them by any means.



There are two configurations of these Ford industrial 104-V4 also called Taunus V4 engines open deck and closed deck. Closed deck is the block you want, unfortunately open deck is the block I got. You can tell which is which by the presence of a road draft tube on the front of the engine, right above the timing cover. Open deck blocks have the tube and I'm told closed decks have a PCV system. The draft tube loops down toward the oil pan. This tube should be replaced either with a PCV loop to the bottom of the carburetor or "Y" it into the exhaust (thats what I did). If left in place this tube directs blow-by from the engine into the belly pan and makes a mess, also draft tubes don't work well in a totally enclosed engine compartment (No Draft).

Open deck block head gaskets are no longer made good luck finding one, I couldn't. I had to make one from scratch out of a 4' X 3' sheet of head gasket material you can get the material at NAPA it has a metal inner core, and is hard to work with. I would rather not make another one. So far so good on the head gasket but have only started and run it up to temp and re torqued the heads a few times.



Exhaust valves are non existent and one of mine was bent, intake valves are all over. I ordered over sized stainless racing valves and turned them to size on the lathe then reground the seats and lapped them in. the replacement exhaust valve required a different keeper but used the same guides and springs.

Gasket kits "for closed deck blocks" can be found rather easy look at ebay about $135. Everything will interchange with the exception of the head gasket if you have a open deck.

Some of the things that got changed:

Weber 32 ICH Carburetor - Bolts right on, had to make a spacer for it to clear the thermostat housing.



Electric fan moved to radiator - pulled the stock fan off the engine milled the timing cover and installed a freeze plug in the hole



Added a 3 wire alternator - Got rid of the generator and replaced with a alternator, turned a idler pulley out of stainless to give the belt more contact area with alternator pulley. Mostly a bolt on deal.



Got rid of the draft tube "Y" it into the exhaust which creates suction to evacuate blow-by. This is certainly not a EPA approved method of dealing with blow-by! Summit Racing has a Kit to do this I just made my own (Summit Racing SUM-120108 or MRG-6002).

Replaced the motor mounts with urethane mounts, thought mine were wore out but after cutting out and destroying the first one realized they were actually in pretty good shape but was past the point of no return.

Engine

Some of the places that I have found parts are:
ebay and ebay.uk
West of Sweden - http://www.wmsbrg.com/sweden/
Burton Power - http://burtonpower.com/
Jack Ashcroft - http://www.subrew.com/jackashcraft
NAPA - If you have a good parts person at the counter. "What year car was that again"?

The engines were used in
Saab 95, 96 and Sonnets, Capri and other industrial uses.
Parts from the Ford Cologne V6 engine, also used in the Capri, will interchange as the Cologne is the same engine without the balance shaft and two moire pistons.

These engines are souped up and raced allot in Europe. You can get race and high performance parts. At least two different cams are available, twin carb intakes, cromoly pushrods, even saw a guy that makes roller rockers for them!

A couple of tips:
when putting the timing cover back on temporarily put the drive pulley through the seal and on the shaft before tightening the cover bolts. This will help to index the seal to the pulley shaft otherwise it will leak like a sieve. There is a tool for this mentioned in the book but this seemed to work well enough.

Pay close attention to the area where the timing cover, oil pan and block meet use a good sealant and make sure everything is flat or it will leak like a sieve.

Check the balance shaft bearings for play if there is play new bearings will have to be installed. The timing gears will suffer if there is play. Of course the bearing for the balance shaft are exclusive to the V4 as the V6 has no balance shaft.

The distributor has no shaft bushings in it. If the shaft has allot of play side to side, it has wore away the aluminum housing it rides in and will fire erratic. I had to countersink the housing and install bronze bushings to take up the slack.



Good Luck, Bobby

mtncrawler said:

If you haven't seen it already, one of the members here "Nutsster" did amazing modifications to his 1402 Imp. It's worth finding the post and checking it out.

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Hello mtncrawler, I have read all of "Nutsster's" post many times. He does great work and you can tell he put allot of time and thought into his machine. I was really impressed with his Imp.
Thanks, Bobby

i used to work on a sonnet in the early 80s and we were getting parts fron a farm supply store in the mid west they used to use those engines on those large self propeled sprinkler systems.

I'm running the same motor in my KT7 Kristi . There should be quite a bit of engine parts information in that Restoration thread for the 104 V-4 . There are lots of parts avalible but like you said , they are pricey .
Nice looking work .

Hey Bobby I really like the idea or installing the electric cooling fan on your rebuild. I am putting it on my list of things to do for my imp. Do you have any more updates for us ? You have done a very good job of rebulding your imp.

What, no updates?

Well It has been quite awhile since I updated this Sooooo...

Torsion axles where added, the old suspension was beyond repair, it had been cut up and welded with 2" of additional tubing, springs were flat, bearings full of dirt, and boogies tore up. I think pictures are in the older posts.



I did it a little differently than the other posts. I used 1000# stub axles sets from Northern Tool (each rated for 500#), way cheaper than having them custom built locally and seems to work well. I also used hubs and tires from the same place. Had the tires filled at Wingfoot in Anchorage.

I cut the original suspension tubing closer to the body, then welded a frame of lighter gage tubing (1/8" wall) between the original tubing to hold plates that the stubs bolt on. Should be way stronger than the original unbraced cantilever tubing holding the springs.



Needed 15" of clearance from the center of one boogie to clear the neighboring boogie at full compression, I can't imagine it will ever compress one axle while it's neighbor stays stationary but gave it the clearance anyhow, Just in case.



The balance point is farther back than I imagined it to be, In fact only one axle set is beyond the balance point to the rear. Ended up spacing the rear set of axles down with 2" spacers to even out the machine, basically compressing the suspension on that axle set. A better solution might be to run a higher rated torsion axle in the rear most position (maybe a 2000# set each holding 1000#). All of the boogies now have close to the same pressure on the ground, so called it good, Before the spacer they were progressively lighter toward the front.

Thanks for looking.

i like the way you did that

Since I cut the original suspension tubing back to fit the torsion axle frame and wanted to replace the original 8" broken solid front idlers with two 16" tires I already had, ended up making a different adjuster compensating for the difference in height.



Maybe overkill for the Imp but was fun trying to make it all fit and work together. It has 4 inches of fine adjustment with the bolt and the original coarse adjustment plate (not shown) gives it a additional 3" or 4", should be plenty. I don't have a picture of it all together, have to get one later with the wheel mounted. Grease zerks are fitted so the whole unit is easily lubed. The 1" adjustment bolt is machined with the same bolt head as the lug nuts and threaded 12tpi out of 4140.





Altered it from this original drawing some. The adjustment bolt now runs inside the spring with a sliding nut. The adjustment bolt is captive at the end, Just the bolt head and a lock collar stick out. The nut slides inside the 2.5" tubing compressing the spring.

The spring is suppose to take out some of the shock of hitting something? Really, I just thought it was cool to have a spring?

Had a time trying to figure out a spring rate that would work well on this, ended up using a medium die spring rated around 1100# at full compression, the spindle is only rated at 1250#. The spring fits nicely inside the 2.5" tubing with very little play, had to remove the welding flash from inside to get the spring and the smaller tubing to nest.

Bobby

bdpeek said:

Since I cut the original suspension tubing back to fit the torsion axle frame and wanted to replace the original 8" broken solid front idlers with two 16" tires I already had, ended up making a different adjuster compensating for the difference in height.

Maybe overkill for the Imp but was fun trying to make it all fit and work together. It has 4 inches of fine adjustment with the bolt and the original coarse adjustment plate (not shown) gives it a additional 3" or 4", should be plenty. I don't have a picture of it all together, have to get one later with the wheel mounted. Grease zerks are fitted so the whole unit is easily lubed. The 1" adjustment bolt is machined with the same bolt head as the lug nuts and threaded 12tpi out of 4140.

Altered it from this original drawing some. The adjustment bolt now runs inside the spring with a sliding nut. The adjustment bolt is captive at the end, Just the bolt head and a lock collar stick out. The nut slides inside the 2.5" tubing compressing the spring.

The spring is suppose to take out some of the shock of hitting something? Really, I just thought it was cool to have a spring?

Had a time trying to figure out a spring rate that would work well on this, ended up using a medium die spring rated around 1100# at full compression, the spindle is only rated at 1250#. The spring fits nicely inside the 2.5" tubing with very little play, had to remove the welding flash from inside to get the spring and the smaller tubing to nest.

Bobby

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WOW I am impressed

I had similar thoughts about changing the boggies and axles, but decided to do the engine first.

Very nice

Man...that is some great engineering...keep it up...lots of pics!!!

Thanks guys, really appreciate it.

I know it has been slow going on this project. But will try to keep this updated. Hope to get it on the snow before winter is out, it is getting closer now, so working on it fairly steady. Next step (Tracks)



Bobby