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Lawyers Making Toyota STOP fixing Faulty Pedals!

Deadly Sushi

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
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This is what is wrong with America. :glare: This isnt govt waste, its Capitalizm at its worst. Pure greed that goes against everyones welfare except their own disgusting greed. Am I wrong here!??!?! If I am please show me because Im willing to entertain different views.


Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal wrote: “Hell, in modern imagination, is not a place of fiery lakes and acrid fumes. It’s a maze of deposition rooms you can’t escape, where nothing is what it seems. That’s where Toyota has landed.“
Welcome to hell.
The Parker Waichman Alonso law firm , of Great Neck, NY, teamed up with the Becnel Law Firm, in New Orleans, LA and put on Businesswire that they “filed suit on behalf of several consumers who purchased Toyota vehicles subject to various recalls issued in January 2010 for defects in the vehicles’ gas pedals. The lawsuit, which was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana, seeks class action status.”
So what does the Esqs. from Long Island and New Orleans want? That Toyota is ordered to recall all affected vehicles? Isn’t Toyota already doing that? To the tune of some 8m (and mounting) cars worldwide?

Au contraire!

Their complaint “asks the Court to enjoin Toyota from implementing any fixes in the accelerator pedals of the subject vehicles without approval from the NHTSA.” To those who are not familiar with a strange language called Legalese, “enjoin” means “issue an injunction,” or, in even plainer English, “order someone to stop doing something.”
The lawyers ask the court to stop Toyota from fixing the recalled cars without approval from NHTSA. If the court grants this request, the cars will never get fixed.
The NHTSA never grants an approval. Toyota issued a press release that says “Regarding reports that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has “approved” a plan for our pedal recall; it is Toyota’s understanding that NHTSA does not officially approve recall remedies.”

CONTINUED: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/lawyers-ask-court-to-stop-toyota-from-fixing-cars/
 
muleman

muleman

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Why do you think so many in congress and higher up the ladder are lawyers? They have brought the same kind of nonsense to government and are looking to expand on it.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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I have a feeling this "fix" Toyota is going to perform is simply a medicine, not a cure.

I've heard a number of solutions, one being different floormats and another adding a shim under a gas pedal spring.

Could it be possible the attorneys have discovered what is really going on with these throttle controls and that Toyota is playing GM? Have you heard their press releases on this? Gawd they sound just like GM's bs.

I hope I am wrong.
 
Doc

Doc

Bottoms Up
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Could the lawyers be playing two sides of the street and working for Ford. :yum:
 
A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
waybomb said:
I have a feeling this "fix" Toyota is going to perform is simply a medicine, not a cure.
Click to expand...

I saw on one of the car shows that this is not only a floor mat or peddle issue but a computer software issue, too. These are all throttle-by-wire cars. All the foot-feed is is a rheostat.

Runaway Lexus 911 call.

My VWs are throttle-by-wire, too. However if you touch the brake and throttle at the same time, the throttle returns to idle, no matter the peddle position. To reset it you, must release the throttle and then it will respond again. If the peddle were to stick on the floor, touching the brake will send the engine to idle until the throttle peddle returns to idle, too.


Why don't the Toyotas have a safety like this?
 
waybomb

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How come they go to WOT? If they are simply sticking, they would stop at the farthest depressed positiion. Very few people ever floor their accelerator. I believe it to be an electronic issue if in fact the throttle progresses to WOT.
 
fogtender

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Av8r3400 said:
I saw on one of the car shows that this is not only a floor mat or peddle issue but a computer software issue, too. These are all throttle-by-wire cars. All the foot-feed is is a rheostat.

Runaway Lexus 911 call.

My VWs are throttle-by-wire, too. However if you touch the brake and throttle at the same time, the throttle returns to idle, no matter the peddle position. To reset it you, must release the throttle and then it will respond again. If the peddle were to stick on the floor, touching the brake will send the engine to idle until the throttle peddle returns to idle, too.


Why don't the Toyotas have a safety like this?
Click to expand...

They guy was stomping on the brake peddle, had time to dial 911 and was yelling into the phone, why didn't he just flip it into neutral? Or, turn off the key, either would have stopped the engine dead in it's tracks from speeding the car down the roadway...

He killed himself, his wife and two kids from a shear panic and he was suppose to be an Police Officer at that and use to intense situations. I just can't imagine what he was thinking about, seems all the thought process went out the window.

Makes one wonder if he was suicidal or something else was wired wrong in his head, just can't imagine a guy losing it that drives at high speeds in the course of his work.
 
pirate_girl

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fogtender;320769 [B said:
why didn't he just flip it into neutral? [/B]

just can't imagine a guy losing it that drives at high speeds in the course of his work.
Click to expand...

That's the big question that everyone seems to be asking about this tragedy Mark.

That doesn't matter- he panicked and wasn't thinking like a police officer at the time. That's my guess.
He was thinking --what the hell is going on with this car.


 
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fogtender

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Yeah, I can't imagine what he was thinking about, but the fix they are suppose to be installing is just a shim behind the gas pedal assembly, since it is just a rheostat for a pedal action, I don't see where that will solve anything at all.

If it is a computer glitch, it may be that turning off the key and putting the computer controlled shifter into neutral won't work if the relays don't shut off.

Don't know what the shifter system is on those units, but many are electric now and the shifter only accesses the key switch to lock the steering wheel and put the car into a manual park latch. All the other shift settings are electronic controlled by the computer program.

If it is a programming issue, they may be really up a creek as well as the owners.
 
grizzer

grizzer

New member
Depending on the size of the RAM chip is would take under 5 mins to reflash the engine control module.

******************

A former designer & manufacturer of <safety critical> on board electronics.

I would not want to be in the STOP SHIP & STOP SALE meeting...
 
muleman

muleman

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I am glad my Prius is not part of all this but when I bought the first one in 2007 one of the first things I did was make sure it could be shifted to neutral when driving. You can also turn it off and coast to a stop by holding the power button for 3 seconds. The 2010 is the same way. I also have a hard time believing someone could not stop a vehicle but could make a phone call. I make it a point to review with my wife what to do if I ever have a heart problem while driving so she can stop the vehicle.
 
A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
I just saw a story on the news that the Prius hype-brid is under a recall for brakes now, too.

Part of the gas peddle issue is there is a progressive friction & spring mechanism on the throttle to make it feel like it is hooked to something. This is sticking. BUT - there should still be a fail safe as I described earlier.

Who really knows why the driver in the Lexus didn't shut it off or shift to neutral. Maybe he couldn't due to trying to control the runaway car, locked shifter mechanism, "safety" on the ignition switch or lack thereof (a start button).

I didn't know that if you hold the start button on these cars, it shuts them off.

I thought that a passenger was on the phone... Panic is a crazy thing.
 
A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
An update on the Prius brakes... I just saw on the news that it is not a recall, yet. However, the story was such that the brakes themselves may not be the issue, but the software (again) that controls the regenerative braking and electric motor. That would not be good if instead of regen-braking the electric motor pulls...
 
rback33

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My wife's car is part of the recall. I read this horror stories and wonder about the people that they happen to. You can't turn the car off in gear. HOWEVER... throw it into neutral! You can do this at any speed! I have done it many times on accident. I get to bobbing with the music and beating my hand on the shifter and kick it into neutral. When this first came about my wife looked at me and says, "can't you just put it in neutral?" She is not mechanically inclined, but she immediately knew the solution. The worst thing a person can do is panic. At any rate.. I am not getting too worked up about the fix. I am still not 100% convinced they know HOW to fix it yet.
 
muleman

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Av8r3400 said:
An update on the Prius brakes... I just saw on the news that it is not a recall, yet. However, the story was such that the brakes themselves may not be the issue, but the software (again) that controls the regenerative braking and electric motor. That would not be good if instead of regen-braking the electric motor pulls...
Click to expand...
I just scheduled mine for service and to have that checked out. Also filed a complaint with the NTHSA for it. Blew right through an intersection yesterday. Damn computer shit is unnecessary and dangerous. Stupid traction control is the reason I don't drive it when it snows. As soon as a wheel spins it locks out the drive and you lose all momentum and then you are stuck. At least in my suburban you can turn it off and go.
 
waybomb

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See, this is why you should be driving a 1969 carbureted Boss 429 Stang, or a carbureted big block Chevelle, or a Hemi Coronet, etc.

Anybody can work on them, and no computers.

Have to admit though, brakes really sucked back then.
 
muleman

muleman

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waybomb said:
See, this is why you should be driving a 1969 carbureted Boss 429 Stang, or a carbureted big block Chevelle, or a Hemi Coronet, etc.

Anybody can work on them, and no computers.

Have to admit though, brakes really sucked back then.
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The first manufacturer who make a plain jane vehicle without all this ABS,traction control,stability control etc. I will be the first to buy one. I saw a show the other day with winter driving tips for women while at the hospital. they said starting in 2012 all cars will have traction assist. They better start waking up and realizing too much technology can be deadly. Good efficient drivetrains is one thing but they are taking too much control of the vehicle away from the driver. My next truck I am leaning toward buying a 2wd and taking it down and having a real 4wd with solid front axle put under it. With a real transfer case with a lever and manual locking hubs. All this auto stuff is more headache than it is worth.
 
waybomb

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muleman said:
The first manufacturer who make a plain jane vehicle without all this ABS,traction control,stability control etc. I will be the first to buy one. I saw a show the other day with winter driving tips for women while at the hospital. they said starting in 2012 all cars will have traction assist. They better start waking up and realizing too much technology can be deadly. Good efficient drivetrains is one thing but they are taking too much control of the vehicle away from the driver. .
Click to expand...

My dd Benz has traction and stability control. I'll have to say, it is pretty cool how it works. I've tried to throw it into a spin in an empty snowed up lot; it is not happening. Turn the traction/stability off, and she'll spin out, but then at a second or two of that, it takes over anyway. Waycool. I feel very safe in these cars.
 
A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
muleman said:
The first manufacturer who make a plain jane vehicle without all this ABS,traction control,stability control etc. I will be the first to buy one. I saw a show the other day with winter driving tips for women while at the hospital. they said starting in 2012 all cars will have traction assist. They better start waking up and realizing too much technology can be deadly. Good efficient drivetrains is one thing but they are taking too much control of the vehicle away from the driver. My next truck I am leaning toward buying a 2wd and taking it down and having a real 4wd with solid front axle put under it. With a real transfer case with a lever and manual locking hubs. All this auto stuff is more headache than it is worth.
Click to expand...

That's why I will never get rid of my '94 Dodge Ram 2500HD, Cummins, 5-speed (NVG4500), 4x4 - Straight axle (Dana 60 & 80), manual transfer case (NVG241HD)

Plain, simple, not even a computer in it.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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Av8r3400 said:
That's why I will never get rid of my '94 Dodge Ram 2500HD, Cummins, 5-speed (NVG4500), 4x4 - Straight axle (Dana 60 & 80), manual transfer case (NVG241HD)

Plain, simple, not even a computer in it.
Click to expand...

Once you get that bay started, you can probably throw away the alternator and battery and it will run until you run out of fuel or oil, correct?

I had a diesel Benz like that. Went on a long trip. Alternator went out, and the idiot light on the dash did not. Went about 400 miles, stopped for fuel, turned her off. That's when I found out the alternator died.

I loved my diesel. Alas, my wife did not.
 
Rusty Shackleford

Rusty Shackleford

Automotive M.D.
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fogtender said:
Sadly, they are all pretty much drive by wire now...
Click to expand...


not all of em!

url
 
muleman

muleman

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Been doing a little reading up on the Toyota problems. It is leaning more toward dumb software than a physical problem. When the co-founder of Apple has it happen while cruising along with cruise enabled and his feet nowhere near the pedal I don't think a shim is going to fix it! My brake problem is also apparently a result of regenerative braking that uses software to maximize the charging of the battery during braking. Most every person has reported it happens at low speed and downhill on a bumpy road. It is not a good feeling when you are slowing up coming to an intersection and it just does nothing. I like the mileage but would love to have my old 85 suburban back in a heartbeat.
 
waybomb

waybomb

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Av8r3400 said:
Fred, you gave up too easy. My wife got 'my' '01 TDi Jetta when we bought it new. I was driving a '86 diesel Jetta at that time. She's hooked on her '01 TDi Beetle now, too.
Click to expand...

"If you get rid of that stinky diesel, yes, you can go buy a 600SL"

'nuff said
 
fogtender

fogtender

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fogtender said:
Yeah, I can't imagine what he was thinking about, but the fix they are suppose to be installing is just a shim behind the gas pedal assembly, since it is just a rheostat for a pedal action, I don't see where that will solve anything at all.

If it is a computer glitch, it may be that turning off the key and putting the computer controlled shifter into neutral won't work if the relays don't shut off.

Don't know what the shifter system is on those units, but many are electric now and the shifter only accesses the key switch to lock the steering wheel and put the car into a manual park latch. All the other shift settings are electronic controlled by the computer program.

If it is a programming issue, they may be really up a creek as well as the owners.
Click to expand...


Sadly it is starting to appear what I stated, bad software, if so, there is not much you can do if your car takes off on you except hit the brakes hard and find a controled place to crash before the brakes fade and you start to speed back up.
 
Lia

Lia

Banned
waybomb said:
I've heard a number of solutions, one being different floormats and another adding a shim under a gas pedal spring.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've heard about the carpet issue also. I bought a Peugeot 107 in Jan 2006, in England; I spend two thirds of the year there... Never had a problem with it, but then I went for the extra's, including the rubber mats, and so haven't noticed a problem with the carpet riding up, which I am told is the real issue with the cars.

I haven't been contacted yet, if I'm even gonna be, but I was assured by 'someone supposedly in the know' that this was the problem, and it is merely a case of a ten minute job at the service station, to sort.

I don't know what 'drive by wire' means, why would I? That's why Daddy's and Uncle's were invented, but, I'm assuming that it means an automatic drive, and my Peugeot is manual. In any event, I have driven approx 57 thousand miles in it, and never noticed anything such as described., and I hope that this continues as I am about to do take another long trip on the 8th, so fingers crossed.

I am vaguely concerned, having read all of the posts here, but not understanding the er... technical terms and all that sort of thing, that a girl doesn't necessarily need to know, I shall just wait my turn in receiving my car recall. :unsure:
 
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A

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
Lia, Drive by wire means that the gas peddle is not hooked (by a cable or mechanical linkage) directly to the engine. It is an electronic switch (like a dimmer switch in your house) that sends its signal only to the computer that runs the engine. The computer then controls the engine speed.

My VW is also a 5-speed, but it still has a drive by wire gas peddle.
 
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